2017 coolant issue?

[Norskie]

I can smell coolant on the passenger side of the engine bay with car hot and in the garage . But I've looked and can't see any signs of a leak. Makes me think this could be a cracked component inside or even a BHG.

 

Our 2005 Outback had a coolant leak at one point, couldn't find it but I could smell it. It was dripping on exhaust so burned off and only leaked when running, Quite annoying, until I repaired it.

 

NAPA (and others) sell coolant test kits which detect hydrocarbons, I would suggest that you get one of those and check yourself. That will confirm or eliminate something internal, like a head gasket. But since you can smell something, I'd suggest it's actually an external leak.

[ehsnils]

If there's a coolant smell, then it could be the heater core as well that's bad.

[3p141592654]

Our 2005 Outback had a coolant leak at one point, couldn't find it but I could smell it. It was dripping on exhaust so burned off and only leaked when running, Quite annoying, until I repaired it.

 

Agreed, the smell suggests external leak, but it still could be from a crack in some component or a bad gasket. I have a 4 gas analyzer so I plan to sniff the rad with the cap off to see if there is any evidence of combustion gases.

 

What was the source of your leak?

[Norskie]

What was the source of your leak?

 

I have a vague recollection of it being the new lower radiator hose dripping on the heat shield, due to using a worm-gear hose clamp instead of the proper spring-loaded clamp.

[3p141592654]

ok, that doesn't sound like it would be my problem on a new engine.

[urdrwho]

Foghorn Leghorn IT'S A JOKE, SON. --- it was a joke.

 

What a strange reply

 

Dude bitches without even so much as an anecdote.

[urdrwho]

I loved my older subarus but the 2015 OB was somewhat a piece of crap. I still suspect that it was used for business in downtown Philadelphia so there were a lot more hours on the clock than the odometer.

 

Yes I initially posted on the legacy forum because it is the forum I was already signed up for with my other subbies.

 

I just think watching the subbie forums is like the movie Ground Hog Day. You keep seeing the same issues over and over and over -- year after year after year. Bearings, head units, coolant loss etc. Why the hell doesn't subaru join the modern world and install a closed coolant reservoir? It would put an end to the lost coolant --- unless there is more than evaporation at play.

 

Maybe there are other areas that they should join the modern world?

 

Engineering tours the plant.

 

"The visit is for their main plant at 1-1 Shoyacho, Ota, Gunma Prefecture 373-0822, Japan.

 

Nissan was recently in the news with a small scandal where the final inspection was done by workers that did not have the official government certificate to do the inspection. Less well known is that Subaru apparently did the very same thing.

 

The information flow is not quite as good as I would like it to be. There were only a few small andon boards. Unlike many other plants, the worker also does not have the power to stop the line. If there is a problem at Toyota, they would pull the andon cord to stop the line. At Subaru, I have been told that if there is a problem, the worker has to make a call to a supervisor before the line gets shut down. I would guess that as a result, the workers are much more hesitant to escalate an issue, and more issues may simply be put down the line. Hence it is a bit surprising to me that Subaru enjoys a good reputation for quality."

 

So I am here for your entertainment and enjoyment.

 

https://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/138-gen-5-2015-2019/411617-2015-wheel-bearing-issues-anyone-else-8.html

 

Can you believe almost 2000 posts just on head units?

 

https://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/138-gen-5-2015-2019/465882-2018-headunit-issues-thread.html

 

And 800 on the battery. Why the hell would they put a 490 CCA battery in a new car!

 

https://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/138-gen-5-2015-2019/391217-gen5-replacing-original-battery-better.html

 

Here is a test for you, what problems are inherent in a Subaru that is considered an engineering / manufacturing problem?

 

If you ever have any objective evidence to present, I'll be glad to consider it.

Edited May 4, 2019 by urdrwho

[ammcinnis]

Anecdotes do not constitute objective evidence. Besides, my anecdotes are just as valid as yours; no more, no less. Edited May 6, 2019 by ammcinnis

[08SpecB_DE]

All cars have problems. Some problems are notorious for specific makes or models. You can go on any car forum and find the top 5 most common issues, so what exactly is your point? Perhaps you have an image painted in your head that Subaru is supposed to be perfect?

[urdrwho]

No not all cars have inherent problems that are apparent time after time and for years. You would be more correct saying some cars.

 

The point is that the subaru forum poster boys never accept the problems as a manufacturing problem. How many years did the head gasket issue exist? Two thousand posts on coolant disappearing / loss and what do you hear from fans...it is evaporation. Fix the damn thing subaru and go to a closed system. With such a stupid system you never know if it is evaporation or is it truly a problem.

 

The link I gave about the line is a problem. I am familiar with the Harley Davidson line and once they made it that one person can stop the line, quality picked up. So subaru -- join modern line management and let one person stop the line. What the heck!

 

For years I espoused how reliable my subbies were but that was before my 2015. I am ticked off to see so many of the same complaints over and over for a car that IMO was once a bullet proof car.

 

People who are just being a fan-boy for subaru doesn't help change things, the squeaky wheels change things.

 

"Subaru Drops Significantly in Consumer Reports Reliability Ratings; is the Helium Coming Out of the Balloon?

In the recent Consumer Reports Reliability ratings, Subaru drops out of the top 10. Is the Helium Coming Out of the Balloon?

 

As Subaru sales continue to rise, the company has underlined the importance of quality control moving forward following a spate of recalls and a drop in its Consumer Reports reliability rating."

 

The Quality Question: Why Has Subaru's Reliability Gone Downhill?

Subarus used to be known for their rugged durability. Now the socially progressive brand is dealing with severe engine related issues.

BY STEVEN LANGAPRIL 18, 2017

 

"When I first started off in the car business, way back in 1999, Subaru was right up there with the best. Better than Nissan. Way better than the Koreans and the domestic cars. Even better than Volvo which back then was saying a lot.

 

I used to buy every Outback and Forester I could get my hands on here in Atlanta, and I sold them to folks who were a pleasure to do business with because..."

 

Now granted Subaru has moved back up the ratings scale but there are thousands upon thousands of subaru owners who are owners of defective cars such as head gasket, oil leaks, etc. SUch people probably bought with the idea that subarus are bullet proof. Some defects are not a question of if but when will the problem appear. People just don't know it. Its like I just bought an investment condo and had to educate the real estate people on the problem of polybutylene piping. People who have the piping don't just don't know.

 

 

All cars have problems. Some problems are notorious for specific makes or models. You can go on any car forum and find the top 5 most common issues, so what exactly is your point? Perhaps you have an image painted in your head that Subaru is supposed to be perfect?

[SubieN8]

I loved my older subarus but the 2015 OB was somewhat a piece of crap. I still suspect that it was used for business in downtown Philadelphia so there were a lot more hours on the clock than the odometer.

 

Yes I initially posted on the legacy forum because it is the forum I was already signed up for with my other subbies.

 

I just think watching the subbie forums is like the movie Ground Hog Day. You keep seeing the same issues over and over and over -- year after year after year. Bearings, head units, coolant loss etc. Why the hell doesn't subaru join the modern world and install a closed coolant reservoir? It would put an end to the lost coolant --- unless there is more than evaporation at play.

 

Maybe there are other areas that they should join the modern world?

 

Engineering tours the plant.

 

"The visit is for their main plant at 1-1 Shoyacho, Ota, Gunma Prefecture 373-0822, Japan.

 

Nissan was recently in the news with a small scandal where the final inspection was done by workers that did not have the official government certificate to do the inspection. Less well known is that Subaru apparently did the very same thing.

 

The information flow is not quite as good as I would like it to be. There were only a few small andon boards. Unlike many other plants, the worker also does not have the power to stop the line. If there is a problem at Toyota, they would pull the andon cord to stop the line. At Subaru, I have been told that if there is a problem, the worker has to make a call to a supervisor before the line gets shut down. I would guess that as a result, the workers are much more hesitant to escalate an issue, and more issues may simply be put down the line. Hence it is a bit surprising to me that Subaru enjoys a good reputation for quality."

 

So I am here for your entertainment and enjoyment.

 

https://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/138-gen-5-2015-2019/411617-2015-wheel-bearing-issues-anyone-else-8.html

 

Can you believe almost 2000 posts just on head units?

 

https://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/138-gen-5-2015-2019/465882-2018-headunit-issues-thread.html

 

And 800 on the battery. Why the hell would they put a 490 CCA battery in a new car!

 

https://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/138-gen-5-2015-2019/391217-gen5-replacing-original-battery-better.html

 

Here is a test for you, what problems are inherent in a Subaru that is considered an engineering / manufacturing problem?

 

 

 

And after years of owning Subaru’s, you still spell it Subbie. It’s Subie, not Subbie.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[urdrwho]

Ha! thanks. Yep I never ever considered the spelling and you are the first to catch it.

 

Good eyes

 

But on a serious side, all these attacks on spelling or things like I complain play right into the hands of the idea that owners tend to be cult-ish. Instead of researching and debating with facts, it is juvenile to just present personal attacks.

 

Would you also present the same king of debate tactic if you were about to purchase a 2013 Elantra and I instead brought the engine problems to your attention? If you were about to buy a certain year Nissan Rogue I believe you would want to hear about the Nissan CVT issues?

 

So apparently when people on Subaru forums bring up Subaru problems you are supposed to shut up. Really I can name on three fingers the individuals that constantly throw wrenches at me. On the other hand, no two hands, no three hands I have had people send private messages in my support.

 

This is a forum about cars and normally things stay car talk until certain people start throwing wrenches.

 

My first subie was a 1983 Subaru DL. Fun car but it didn't last long. I had it for about a year and then valve problems appeared. Ha! My front seat broke one day and I had to put a 5 gallon can in the rear to keep the seat in an up position.

 

I don't come around much, only when I get an e-mail that someone posted to a thread that I had followed at one time.

 

 

And after years of owning Subaru’s, you still spell it Subbie. It’s Subie, not Subbie.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Beamercub]

That is only your opinion ... which you have expressed over and over on this forum, without offering any objective evidence. Others disagree; their experiences have been different than yours.

 

You made a post with the only intent to put me down? Unacceptable. As for your remark/question; what evidence do you need or want? Safety isn't an objective subject.

[08SpecB_DE]

You can go back to a post I made here somewhere stating I wouldn't buy a newer Subaru. I had an Impreza for a day while they did my airbag and thought it was very cheap and not refined. Subaru engines have stayed the same for the most part and due to design, are more prone to certain issues. If you're losing coolant, get it figured out. I dont buy the evaporation mumbo jumbo. I have not come across a newer gen with coolant consumption issues but if someone in the Delaware area has this concern, I will gladly offer to check it out for them. All cars leak oil and none more than Cadillac or BMW.

 

I dont think anyone is sweeping your concerns under the rug but I'd like to see some resolution. Has everyone exhausted all their options or do they just go to the dealer under warranty and dealer says no issues found? If there's a 2k post thread about disappearing coolant, someone has to have found the problem or no?

[ammcinnis]

You made a post with the only intent to put me down?

My sole intent was to refute your broad, unsubstantiated assertions:

 

• "Quality has gone downhill for Subaru."
  
• "Going to all electric steering has been a nightmare."
  
• "They [subaru] know the issues and just look the other way."
  

Remember, you're the guy who repeatedly complains about poor vehicle tracking and blames the electric steering, among other things, but then casually admits driving his Legacy (an AWD vehicle) around on grossly mismatched tires ... two 50,000 mile tires, one 25,000 mile tire, and one 10,000 mile tire. What could possibly go wrong?

 

Almost 50k on the LS2 's. Actually 2 of them have about 25k and one of those 2 was replaced about 10k ago.

Edited May 7, 2019 by ammcinnis

[Brisvegas]

Remember, you're the guy who repeatedly complains about poor vehicle tracking and blames the electric steering, but then admits to driving an AWD vehicle around on grossly mismatched tires ... two 50,000 mile tires, one 25,000 mile tire, and one 10,000 mile tire. What could possibly go wrong?

 

That is what he said.

[urdrwho]

My 2015 OB did not have mis-matched tires. They were brand new tires.

Personally I never found the electric steering to present any problems, not one.

 

It is not just my opinion but the opinion of people who write articles; the opinion of those who were polled.

 

Plus if you read (yes I knew my posts are long) but I said reliability has come back up.

 

Look in the past, years ago, Subie had some very bad years for reliability and if you can't be objective and admit that --- well I don't know what to call that.

Head gaskets and oil leak problems aren't a minor issue.

 

But it isn't just me saying things about engine problems in the past. I opened my consumerreports.org account and looked. From 00 to 09 major engine had big red marks. That is almost 10 years of bad and that would equate to a lot of people. Things didn't start getting best marks (dark green) until 2014. That is a lot of years until the major engine hit best marks.

 

So this has now entered the silly phase. You keep saying they are my opinions, I keep giving links to articles and there is no where else to go. If you aren't willing to accept that Subie had bad years then all I can say is cultism. As people have said cars can have bad years and Subie is not exempt from it. It appears that in 2014 someone shook up subie and they fixed things. I do question why it took them so long to solve some major problems.

 

CR doesn't take into consideration complaints like "coolant disappearance".

 

CR does note things that have been mentioned on subie forums -- battery issues; Driveshaft or axle, CV joint, differential, transfer case, 4WD/AWD components, driveline vibration, traction control, electronic stability control (ESC), electrical failure. "“Shuddering when starting up until about 20 mph” "“both right rear and left rear bearings failed at 25k - 35k miles”"

 

2015 Outback

Overall Reliability 3 / 5

 

My Volvo 2016 V60

Overall Reliability 4 / 5

 

Wifes 2011 Honda CR-V

Overall Reliability 5 / 5

 

I have to wonder about people who post the next sentance as a complaint about a car!?!??! Seriously - a complaint!????

"“Car was hit by a deer” Anonymous, IA (2015 Subaru Outback 2.5i Limited 3.6-L 6 Cyl)"

 

 

My sole intent was to refute your unsubstantiated assertions:

 

• "Quality has gone downhill for Subaru."
  
• "Going to all electric steering has been a nightmare."
  
• "They [subaru] know the issues and just look the other way."
  

Remember, you're the guy who repeatedly complains about poor vehicle tracking and blames the electric steering, but then admits to driving an AWD vehicle around on grossly mismatched tires ... two 50,000 mile tires, one 25,000 mile tire, and one 10,000 mile tire. What could possibly go wrong?

Edited May 6, 2019 by urdrwho

[SubieN8]

Ha! thanks. Yep I never ever considered the spelling and you are the first to catch it.

 

Good eyes

 

But on a serious side, all these attacks on spelling or things like I complain play right into the hands of the idea that owners tend to be cult-ish. Instead of researching and debating with facts, it is juvenile to just present personal attacks.

 

Would you also present the same king of debate tactic if you were about to purchase a 2013 Elantra and I instead brought the engine problems to your attention? If you were about to buy a certain year Nissan Rogue I believe you would want to hear about the Nissan CVT issues?

 

So apparently when people on Subaru forums bring up Subaru problems you are supposed to shut up. Really I can name on three fingers the individuals that constantly throw wrenches at me. On the other hand, no two hands, no three hands I have had people send private messages in my support.

 

This is a forum about cars and normally things stay car talk until certain people start throwing wrenches.

 

My first subie was a 1983 Subaru DL. Fun car but it didn't last long. I had it for about a year and then valve problems appeared. Ha! My front seat broke one day and I had to put a 5 gallon can in the rear to keep the seat in an up position.

 

I don't come around much, only when I get an e-mail that someone posted to a thread that I had followed at one time.

 

I'm one of the nicest people you could ever meet - I'm just a stickler for spelling and grammar. Didn't mean to offend, if I did.

[urdrwho]

No you didn't offend me. I was serious when I said nobody ever said anything and I never noticed. I'm glad you said something or else I would have continued with my incorrect spelling.

 

Years ago I had a friend that was an English major and his thing was dangling participles. In school I couldn't diagram a sentence if there were / was / were / was a gun to my head. I was a math head. So when he an I were business partners I did everything math and he did everything grammar. My wife is a grammar person and when she edits, she marks up all my stuff.

 

I'm one of the nicest people you could ever meet - I'm just a stickler for spelling and grammar. Didn't mean to offend, if I did.

[SubieN8]

No you didn't offend me. I was serious when I said nobody ever said anything and I never noticed. I'm glad you said something or else I would have continued with my incorrect spelling.

 

Years ago I had a friend that was an English major and his thing was dangling participles. In school I couldn't diagram a sentence if there were / was / were / was a gun to my head. I was a math head. So when he an I were business partners I did everything math and he did everything grammar. My wife is a grammar person and when she edits, she marks up all my stuff.

 

Lol nice.

[Brisvegas]

The point is that the subaru forum poster boys never accept the problems as a manufacturing problem.

People who are just being a fan-boy for subaru doesn't help change things, the squeaky wheels change things./QUOTE]

 

I find this concept of "Fan Boy" interesting. Is there really subaru owners out there who are stupid enough to buy the brand knowing full well they are pieces of "unreliable crap"? If they only find out about the lack of reliability after their purchase, do these same people continue to drive these "crappy vehicles" just because they are "fan boys?" One poster on this subject recently said "my anecdotes are just as valid as yours; no more, no less" and with that "validity" point in mind, I submit my anecdote that I have read where Subarus are up near the top in relation to brand repurchase and also up near the top in regards to the brands kept the longest.

 

I am going to be most disappointed if I don't get 300,000 miles out of mine. ( I will be changing the transmission fluid at 100,000 though). But if it starts falling apart then I'll get rid of it ... unlike another poster on this forum who states that he has had his vehicle towed 8 times and his list of complaints is never ending ..... even if there was a significant replacement cost involved, why this poster continues to drive a Subaru has me beat. Perhaps it's like in the animal kingdom where some protect their young to the point of death, and then there are others who eat their own

[urdrwho]

Well normally a fan-boy doesn't purchase something knowing it is a problem but they are very emotionally involved with their car. A fan-boy would be someone that in the face of fact, they refuse to accept a long term issue. I've posted something we all know and that was the subaru almost decade long head gasket problem. To the people that kept saying I was giving anecdotal eveidence, they have yet to come out and say, "yes subaru did lose some reliability during those years. Nope we only hear silence. No mention of that oil leak issue on some recent years. Nope silence.

 

Subaru does a masterful marketing job and if someone had never driven a subaru the advertisements make them look as rugged as the Willy's WWII Jeep was in its day.

 

Fan-boys are not just Subaru owners, they are also Ford owners and everything in between. For two decades I drove a brand that was known as a luxury sport vehicle. On some of those forums they had to split up the specific models. The reason was that the purists were picking on the people who owned cars that were now produced by Ford (Ford bought them out).

 

As I have stated over and over and over, I am not anti-Subaru but I did find that my 2015 was not the Subaru of old. It was a CPO and therefore compared to buying from a private seller, I paid a premium price. In the first week I found the HU issue. Then there was the coolant loss, evaporation or whatever but it was unlike any subie I had ever owned previously --- and more. Then I started reading posts about bearings going out at rather low mileage, not mine but enough posts to raise an eyebrow. Going back and forth to the dealer so often gave my car the nickname of boomerang.

 

My OB was about a week old to us when people came to buy my Volvo V50. Their remark, "oh I see you have an OB, we had one that looked exactly the same, same color." Inquisitive I asked, you had one, what happened to it? Their response was this, "we got tired of constantly taking it back to the dealer for fixes." Anecdotal yes, but running into someone that has my same car was statistically unusual.

 

And then our car started its need to go back to the dealer. Then I see posts of failures for parts that in my years of driving were normally parts that failed over 100,000 miles. Add to all of it, I am not a CVT fan. I have a friend that just bought a Nissan Rogue and he says the same thing about CVT's in our city traffic. On the OB forum the description was a put-put feeling.

 

My last OB Limited that I sold was a 97 and had over 300,000 on the engine. It's brother that I owned at the same time was a 95 Legacy wagon and had high mileage. They both were of the vintage years that had the rust cancer on the wheel wells. Yes that rust was something that Subie's of that vintage were prone to show. The 97 is still running around the city and the 95 went to auction.

 

I am not very sure that the 2015 models will, in 20 years, be as prevalent as the older subie. The older 20 year subie's that are still running around is what just might allow the marketing department to tout longest ownership.

 

I wish I still had that 97 OB Limited. Great seats, everything inside was perfect (yes it had rust) but the 2.2 I installed was running fine. It was a freak'in workhorse.

 

Truth be told with all the electronics in cars today, I wonder who is willing to hold onto them once all that expensive electronic equipment begins to fail?

 

 

The point is that the subaru forum poster boys never accept the problems as a manufacturing problem.

People who are just being a fan-boy for subaru doesn't help change things, the squeaky wheels change things./QUOTE]

 

I find this concept of "Fan Boy" interesting. Is there really subaru owners out there who are stupid enough to buy the brand knowing full well they are pieces of "unreliable crap"? If they only find out about the lack of reliability after their purchase, do these same people continue to drive these "crappy vehicles" just because they are "fan boys?" One poster on this subject recently said "my anecdotes are just as valid as yours; no more, no less" and with that "validity" point in mind, I submit my anecdote that I have read where Subarus are up near the top in relation to brand repurchase and also up near the top in regards to the brands kept the longest.

 

I am going to be most disappointed if I don't get 300,000 miles out of mine. ( I will be changing the transmission fluid at 100,000 though). But if it starts falling apart then I'll get rid of it ... unlike another poster on this forum who states that he has had his vehicle towed 8 times and his list of complaints is never ending ..... even if there was a significant replacement cost involved, why this poster continues to drive a Subaru has me beat. Perhaps it's like in the animal kingdom where some protect their young to the point of death, and then there are others who eat their own

Edited May 7, 2019 by urdrwho

[Brisvegas]

Well normally a fan-boy doesn't purchase something knowing it is a problem but they are very emotionally involved with their car. A fan-boy would be someone that in the face of fact, they refuse to accept a long term issue. I've posted something we all know and that was the subaru almost decade long head gasket problem. To the people that kept saying I was giving anecdotal eveidence, they have yet to come out and say, "yes subaru did lose some reliability during those years. Nope we only hear silence. No mention of that oil leak issue on some recent years. Nope silence.

 

I enjoy an honest debate about all things, and that obviously includes Subaru reliability. You have mentioned several times the "head gasket issue" ..... do you really see that as a legitimate complaint? Because from what I have researched, the "general online anecdotal evidence" is that Subaru has fixed that problem since approx 2011 ... so if anything, that should have improved their reliability in your eyes. You also quoted some figures from what I assume is a U.S. reliability organization where you mentioned that Subaru has slipped down the charts. I looked up the equivalent 2018 figures for here in Australia and whilst admittedly Subaru did not "win" .... the results put them on the same line as Toyota .... so I'd suggest that was not a bad result.

 

Canstar Blue Reliability 2018

Mazda, Suzuki and Volkswagen were all rated as the most reliable in 2018, scoring five stars. Subaru and Toyota scored four stars for reliability. Audi was the only brand with a three star rating for new car reliability.

 

I could quote other sites but I really feel most of these "reliability websites" are anecdotal/subjective/flawed at best, and are not to be taken as "gospel" in many cases.

 

I don't think I qualify as a "fan boy" (mainly because I haven't been called a boy for a long time) .... but by the same token I'm yet to be convinced that Subaru's are scraping the bottom of the barrel in regards to reliability. I know that several posters on this forum have had a bad experience, notably Beamercub, who if he is genuine, must qualify as the owner of the greatest lemon in the history of motoring .... but all in all I can't help but think if his experience was the "norm" then the lines of protesting owners outside all Subaru dealerships would be making national headlines.

 

Finally, you mention in your post that you are concerned about "the silence" from certain people in regards to your comments on Subaru unreliability .... could I dare to suggest that the "silent ones" are the silent majority who have few complaints about their cars

[Norskie]

Canstar Blue Reliability 2018

Mazda, Suzuki and Volkswagen were all rated as the most reliable in 2018, scoring five stars. Subaru and Toyota scored four stars for reliability. Audi was the only brand with a three star rating for new car reliability.

 

I could quote other sites but I really feel most of these "reliability websites" are anecdotal/subjective/flawed at best, and are not to be taken as "gospel" in many cases.

 

2018 is too new to establish reliability ratings. If any manufacturer creates a car that need significant repairs within a year of building it, well, that's terrible. "Initial build quality" would be a better label for this. Even JD Powers "long term reliability ratings" only covers the first three years. Again, not what I would consider a long enough period to establish 'long term reliability'. How trouble-free a car is from 75k -> 150k is (in my opinion) the correct range to validate reliability, but I don't know if there are studies/reports for that. Thus it remains anecdotal and personal experience.

 

The other issue is that the term 'reliable' is too general. Does it mean "can you trust it to get you to your destination?" or "how often the head unit hiccups" or "your head gasket will go, but just install a new one" vs. "your turbo will blow and take the enough out with it"? Or is it like BMWs water pumps that should be pre-emptively replaced at 75k miles and it needs a walnut blast at 50k" ... is that 'reliability' or 'maintenance' ? It even varies by model ... should the 3.6's be besmirched by the EJ255/257's?

 

My rambling point here is that defining 'reliability' in itself is challenging so it remains a nebulous concept.

 

QUOTE=Brisvegas;5894167].. but by the same token I'm yet to be convinced that Subaru's are scraping the bottom of the barrel in regards to reliability.

 

No, that would be Audi, BMW and VW. Well, they top the charts in initial build quality but then require significant expensive repairs as you get closer to 100k. My anecdotal evidence puts it somewhere under Toyota/Honda, which isnt' bad, considering Subaru's drivetrains are more complex (in general).

 

QUOTE=Brisvegas;5894167]Finally, you mention in your post that you are concerned about "the silence" from certain people in regards to your comments on Subaru unreliability .... could I dare to suggest that the "silent ones" are the silent majority who have few complaints about their cars

 

I'm usually silent. I just don't bother to post about things that don't interest me much. Our 2005 Outback required a lot more attention in later years so I was pretty active on Nasioc and the outback forums. Our 2017 BRZ hasn't hiccuped even once so I don't bother with BRZ forums, but my 2016 WRX has it's issues so I'm more active on Nasioc. So far no issues on our 2017 Legacy, so I'm sort of quiet here too. But these cars are basically new, with less than 30k miles on them, and under warranty, so not much to write/read about.

[urdrwho]

The silence is in regards to people who are very vocal about my posts but silent on my points such as Consumer Reports. Maybe the red marks in CR isn't good enough for them?

 

Let's talk anecdotal. The guy that bought my Volvo - had a lot of problems with his OB. A friend at church mentioned her OB uses oil (she owns the year of oil problems). I had a number of issues on mine. All OB's mentioned are within a small space of model years. A small sampling yes but they are the only people I know that own or owned OBs.

 

I see someone mentioned BMW. I know a guy and his wife each owned one. He loves his but his wife had to replace her sunroof or something up top. It cost $$$ thousands and $$$$ thousands. Most all of the cost was labor of the technicians. She now drives a Kia.

 

My wife wanted a Legacy but because it was going to be my DD I wanted and got an OB. Because I liked my 97 OB so much I wanted another OB and we searched and searched for one. And then after purchasing one, the troubles appeared. Ya know how maddening it is when that automatic lift-gate decides not to open and you're standing in the rain holding groceries? And it was most often in the rain or snow. Dealer couldn't replicate. Of course not because it was a random thing. Nothing that will kill ya but very annoying and a known issue.

 

My experience wasn't just one thing but more like a death from a thousand cuts. Could be my model year of 2015? Looking at one site 2015 Subaru vehicles number of problems was the highest of all years except 2002. In 2002 the total was 1,123. And I've noticed the OB has higher problem numbers than the Legacy. Does Subaru still install a 490 CCA battery into their new vehicles?

 

Finally, you mention in your post that you are concerned about "the silence" from certain people in regards to your comments on Subaru unreliability .... could I dare to suggest that the "silent ones" are the silent majority who have few complaints about their cars

Edited May 8, 2019 by urdrwho