Supercharged 3.6R

[Too40gawlf]

Just my two cents but if you want a sports car...buy a sports car. Will be far better than turning your car into something it was not meant to be.

 

This is the best advice in this thread.

[Too40gawlf]

As much as I like Raptor, their headers and S/C kits, which are well thought out (especially the water-cooled ones), I would advice caution. This platform doesn't lend itself to mechanical compressors and parasitic load... a bi-turbo setup with stand-alone engine management would be far safer/better but not really optimal for DD or eventual sale/trade-in duty.

 

The EZ36D and its 6th gen Hitachi ECU and 5th gen Denso ECUs do not have the routines and room in the micro-code to allow for boost management/control, aftermarket MAP sensor support, dealing with larger/extra injectors properly (even Ecutek - which I do not recommend going to - struggles with this on the 3.6R and hacks the $#&! out of the memory space to cram in RaceROM functions, including custom tables).

 

Once supercharged - everything will become a limiting factor - from engine oil temps (AVCS limp mode) through mass-air metering accuracy and limits, calculated load and torque needing scaling and extrapolation of all load-related tables, fueling/ignition, knock prevention/correction strategy config to torque amplification at low RPMs by the mini-TC mated to the Lineatronic TR690 CV and CVTF temps.

 

You can probably swing it up to about 4-5psi of boost, but anything beyond (where it actually becomes worth it) and you're in Danger Will Robinson territory.

You should look into ItalianLegacy's (Ghio's) horror stories (most not on here... NDA) and perhaps just trade in for a end-of-production STI to use as the track toy.

 

Avoid Prime Motoring. Speak to AZP Installs about where to get this thing dial-ed in locally if you go through with it (perhaps Moto East in PA?).

Nameless is another mistake, especially for the 3.6R with supercharger and (hopefully) headers, some 400-cell GESi metal core cats. Drone and Rasp galore.

 

You Sir, impress me with your knowledge. Thank you for your contributions.

[Perscitus]

Thanks. I'm at the tail end of my nearly two-decade adventure with Subaru and t00ning.

 

Might as well share some of it before I forget it all and/or it becomes deprecated and irrelevant with the next-gen of intelligent e-boxer hybrids

and soon after - pure e-Subarus.

 

22B era Subarus must be turning in their junk/scarp yard graves.

 

Progress has robbed the brand of its soul, but I feel we've only lost as much as we have gained elsewhere.

A model year 2020 car and target consumer have different priorities and wants from what was expected and doable mid/late 90s.

[Too40gawlf]

 

Progress has robbed the brand of its soul.

 

Precisely. What used to be an exciting brand rooted in performance and adventure has turned into a dull, CVT driven appliance for soy boys and the middle aged professor crowd.

[MrCobbs]

Thanks guys, so Precision told me that they aren’t ready for the 2018 yet in tuning but will try. AMR as well so now I’m stuck and received this Raptor.

 

 

So they aren’t completely ready for the 2018 yet as well. I guess I’ll either be patient and try to tune when everyone is ready or go ahead and purchase my 718.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Perscitus]

Thx for the update. I'm not at all surprised. It will likely take them a fair bit of time to add support. What's the t00ning solution they plan to use? Ecutek, Epifan, something else?

[MrCobbs]

Whatever ThrottleHappy uses.

 

I don't want to start any fights but I wanted to go with XRT.

[Perscitus]

Pick your poison. No judgement passed.

 

Hmm - seems it might be Epifan SubaruEdit then.

Whatever it is, stay away from Ecutek or any custom tunes that change your CID/CALID

or modify the CAN handshake (preventing you from going back to stock easily or switching t00ners easily).

[MrCobbs]

Pick your poison. No judgement passed.

 

Hmm - seems it might be Epifan SubaruEdit then.

Whatever it is, stay away from Ecutek or any custom tunes that change your CID/CALID

or modify the CAN handshake (preventing you from going back to stock easily or switching t00ners easily).

 

 

 

Ah ok thanks and I’ll check prior to that.

 

 

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[Perscitus]

Any update on the Raptor S/C builds?

Hopefully you found another shop to do the install, lined up supporting mods

and have a line out to Matt for t00ning.

[MrCobbs]

Not yet and Raptor hasn't given me the greenlight on the 2018 just yet due to the new ECU. In the meantime I'm just prepping the car in any other way possible. If I have no updates by August from Raptor then I'll just buy the 718.

[boragirl03]

Not yet and Raptor hasn't given me the greenlight on the 2018 just yet due to the new ECU. In the meantime I'm just prepping the car in any other way possible. If I have no updates by August from Raptor then I'll just buy the 718.

 

I spoke with them the beginning of this month and was told to check back the end of this month.

[Perscitus]

Don't waste your $$$ and time guys. We learned the hard way on the 5th gens so you dont have to.

 

Keep these 3.6Rs or 3.6RSs as the highway cruisers and grocery getters they were ment to be. Suspension mods, headers, CVTF cooler, cosmetic mods and call it a day.

 

Will a Raptor vanilla or watercooled SC putting out 5-8psi - work? Sure, its actually well engineered (except for the MAF housing and location/pipe bends, air filter itself) and its basically OE looking. But without 1-2x the cost spent in supporting mods, it will not be reliable. Any even then, the Hitachi ECU ROM structure for the EZ36D gets indigestion when dealing with boost (from a parasitic load mechanical compressor or a vanilla turbine or two).

 

Keep these old NA engines, NA and they will reward you with 200K+ miles of service.

Even when ill maintained, neglected, fed AKI87 E10, etc.

[Fiatz79]

If you want a performance sedan... Buy a performance sedan...

[boragirl03]

Don't waste your $$$ and time guys. We learned the hard way on the 5th gens so you dont have to.

 

Keep these 3.6Rs or 3.6RSs as the highway cruisers and grocery getters they were ment to be. Suspension mods, headers, CVTF cooler, cosmetic mods and call it a day.

 

Will a Raptor vanilla or watercooled SC putting out 5-8psi - work? Sure, its actually well engineered (except for the MAF housing and location/pipe bends, air filter itself) and its basically OE looking. But without 1-2x the cost spent in supporting mods, it will not be reliable. Any even then, the Hitachi ECU ROM structure for the EZ36D gets indigestion when dealing with boost (from a parasitic load mechanical compressor or a vanilla turbine or two).

 

Keep these old NA engines, NA and they will reward you with 200K+ miles of service.

Even when ill maintained, neglected, fed AKI87 E10, etc.

 

Would you suggest the raptor header? and then leave it at that

[Perscitus]

Yes and no. The headers will make quick work of the OE cats,

hence if doing headers either replace all four cats with metal core ones or at least do two longer metal core cats with a decent (400+) cell count. Leave everything else stock from y to mid pipes to axlebacks... else prepare for drone and rasp galore.

 

 

So if thinking headers, think headers + cats + minor fab work and optimally a t00n.

If the combo isnt your cup of tea, skip the headers and just leave things stock or get a stock-parts t00n to bring new life to the engine, transmission and throttle response.

[boragirl03]

Yes and no. The headers will make quick work of the OE cats,

hence if doing headers either replace all four cats with metal core ones or at least do two longer metal core cats with a decent (400+) cell count. Leave everything else stock from y to mid pipes to axlebacks... else prepare for drone and rasp galore.

 

 

So if thinking headers, think headers + cats + minor fab work and optimally a t00n.

If the combo isnt your cup of tea, skip the headers and just leave things stock or get a stock-parts t00n to bring new life to the engine, transmission and throttle response.

 

thanks for your input, much appreciated. I have it tuned with a cat-back. I can def do without the drone, so I will leave it at that.

[MrCobbs]

I don't want to hijack this thread and I have seen others on here talk about gas already but does anyone use Shell V-Power? I notice it makes a noticeable difference as far as response and power is concerned.

[Perscitus]

Shell V Power is ok especially in E0 flavor.

If you can, run either Sunoco or Exxon/Mobil, Chevron E0 or worse case E10 AKI91/93.

 

 

H6s and their t00ns in the US respond best to those blend/detergent/additive formulas.

 

 

 

Shell either all the time or for italian tune ups (2 tanks worth) every 6 months or so.

If you stick with Shell, fuel pump filter, prefilter and sock will need replacing after about 90K.

 

 

 

Stay away from BP, Lukoil, etc. Subarus 'no like' anything oxygenated or nitrogenated.

[MrCobbs]

Shell V Power is ok especially in E0 flavor.

If you can, run either Sunoco or Exxon/Mobil, Chevron E0 or worse case E10 AKI91/93.

 

 

H6s and their t00ns in the US respond best to those blend/detergent/additive formulas.

 

 

 

Shell either all the time or for italian tune ups (2 tanks worth) every 6 months or so.

If you stick with Shell, fuel pump filter, prefilter and sock will need replacing after about 90K.

 

 

 

Stay away from BP, Lukoil, etc. Subarus 'no like' anything oxygenated or nitrogenated.

 

 

Yes I was having shut down problems with the 2.5i when I used BP and LukOil. That's when I directed to Shell or Exxon and to attempt the E0 when available and found on puregas.com. I decided to go with Exxon/Mobil but as an emergency, since I was out of town, I had to go to this Shell and decided on V Power because (it said POWER), noticed that increase on the 3.6.

[boragirl03]

I don't want to hijack this thread and I have seen others on here talk about gas already but does anyone use Shell V-Power? I notice it makes a noticeable difference as far as response and power is concerned.

 

Is this question in response to forced induction?

[IcEWoLF]

Shell V Power is ok especially in E0 flavor.

If you can, run either Sunoco or Exxon/Mobil, Chevron E0 or worse case E10 AKI91/93.

 

 

H6s and their t00ns in the US respond best to those blend/detergent/additive formulas.

 

 

 

Shell either all the time or for italian tune ups (2 tanks worth) every 6 months or so.

If you stick with Shell, fuel pump filter, prefilter and sock will need replacing after about 90K.

 

 

 

Stay away from BP, Lukoil, etc. Subarus 'no like' anything oxygenated or nitrogenated.

 

Yep, I noticed I feel better response on she’ll gasoline over the general gas.

[Perscitus]

You can actually SEE it happening if you monitored your 3.6R with BtSsm.

As easy as monitoring 'Total Timing', 'FKC', 'IAM/DAM' 'Learned Timing' and maybe AF Learn/Correct #1 and #3, #2 and #4.

 

And as a matter of fact, I HIGHLY recommend doing that WHILE the cars are fairly NEW and STOCK for anyone considering any mechanical, electrical mods.

 

This will allow you to LEARN your cars baseline behavior and if you make any logs, give you a benchmark/baseline to compare to once headers go on, any intake is added (ugh, the horror),

 

AF sensors or Rear O2 sensors start to go bad, MAF/MAPs start to go bad, etc.

[MrCobbs]

Is this question in response to forced induction?

 

 

 

Naw it wasn’t. More so talking about ways to increase or feel an increase of power.

 

 

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[BobbyR]

I don't want to hijack this thread and I have seen others on here talk about gas already but does anyone use Shell V-Power? I notice it makes a noticeable difference as far as response and power is concerned.

 

I use Shell 91 in my other car (which requires premium gas) because it is ethanol free, at least here in Canada. I use Shell Regular in the Legacy but only because the station is convenient, not for any other reason. Their regular gas contains ethanol like all the others. If there's any difference in performance with ethanol free gasoline it is undetectable. I just feel ethanol is bad for your engine (or, at best, not good for your it).