Random misfire all cylinders

[zactek]

Heiche is understating. There is essentially no way a fully warmed up car, even a perfectly tuned one, will have complete zeros in all fuel learning ranges. Either the ECU has reset in the past minute, or your insurance dongle is screwing up your comms with the ECU, or my personal theory, the insurance dongle is resetting or otherwise screwing up the ECU. Keeping that thing plugged into your car is asking for trouble.

 

https://www.expertinsurancereviews.com/usage-based-insurance/allstate-drivewise/

 

Wow,I was not aware there were so many people that had problems with the DriveWise ( they seem predominantly Mazdas,Fords,and Hondas; I read thru 90% of the comments)

Right now,I do plan on leaving the BtSsm adapter in and driving for a little while and logging/ seeing if my LV changes AND if my problem goes away. There is no way that both adapters could be used at the same time anyway,screw Allstate if they tell me to put it back in (they WILL contact me eventually though)

I don't see how the DriveWise could be messing with anything IF it's unplugged,and that's the only way I was able to log/use BtSsm and get my LV,so the plot thickens,lol.

I'll try to get more logs and LV in the next few days when I drive.

 

Zack K.

[Perscitus]

The LV looking the way it does might be as simple as:

 

a. RC recently triggering an IAM move (up or down)

and the ECU is still in RC and FKC modes only, hasnt settled on a given IAM and switched to a mix of FKC and FLKC strategies,

hence the reset/zero'ed out Learned Timing adjustments (none will be learned yet)

 

b. Driving habits might not be allowing the ECU to enter RC after an earlier ECU reset. Again keeping only FKC active (when applicable).

 

Zero'ed out Fueling adjustment everywhere (especially Range A) do look odd no matter whats going on here.

 

And Zack, in case you dont know Heiche is the genius mastermind behind BtSsm.

[heiche]

I just reviewed the log files that zactek sent me (basically 2 different CSV files) and didn't see anything wrong jump out at me. Some fairly innocent cruising around. IAM is at 1.000 throughout (a good thing). Fuel is correcting (a good thing).

 

So far the only thing that seems odd is an LV that looks like the ECU had just been reset even though the user hadn't just reset it. Otherwise all good?

[Perscitus]

Zack, while at it you should also update your ECU to the latest CALID for ypur car... assuming its an 05 MT LGT, yes?

 

If so you want PAK UD-S222B which will up your CID/CALID to 'A2WC522N'

 

If you're running a 05 AT LGT then PAK UD-S213A, CID/CALID 'A2WC521C'

plus TCU PAK UD-S209, CID/CALID 'MB436L' for the slushbox.

 

Any dealership can flash these for you, as applicable, takes a few minutes.

I also have the software and PAK and can help you update your firmware/s.

 

ECU update reads: corrects P1160, P2097, surge during moderate acceleration, Cruise control intermediate shut-off bug.

If getting P2097, replace A/F lambda sensor and reflash ECU with above update.

 

RR knows this CID/CALID well and the BtSsm logger addresses will be the same.

 

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=7818

 

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=7864&sid=0bf5e19dfc9b00f4dc4eac0bf4d31a86&start=15

[zactek]

I just reviewed the log files that zactek sent me (basically 2 different CSV files) and didn't see anything wrong jump out at me. Some fairly innocent cruising around. IAM is at 1.000 throughout (a good thing). Fuel is correcting (a good thing).

 

So far the only thing that seems odd is an LV that looks like the ECU had just been reset even though the user hadn't just reset it. Otherwise all good?

 

I guess I gotta keep logging hoping that I can catch this surging/bucking. Thank you for looking at my logs Heiche. I'm now wondering if there's some external noise around the motor that's causing the ghost knock/misfire.

 

Zack K.

[relative4]

Heiche is the genius mastermind behind BtSsm.

 

Oh yeah, about that - thanks, Heiche, for being awesome. You have changed the Subaru world.

[heiche]

Thanks guys - no big deal really!

[zactek]

Zack, while at it you should also update your ECU to the latest CALID for ypur car... assuming its an 05 MT LGT, yes?

 

If so you want PAK UD-S222B which will up your CID/CALID to 'A2WC522N'

 

If you're running a 05 AT LGT then PAK UD-S213A, CID/CALID 'A2WC521C'

plus TCU PAK UD-S209, CID/CALID 'MB436L' for the slushbox.

 

Any dealership can flash these for you, as applicable, takes a few minutes.

I also have the software and PAK and can help you update your firmware/s.

 

ECU update reads: corrects P1160, P2097, surge during moderate acceleration, Cruise control intermediate shut-off bug.

If getting P2097, replace A/F lambda sensor and reflash ECU with above update.

 

RR knows this CID/CALID well and the BtSsm logger addresses will be the same.

 

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=7818

 

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=7864&sid=0bf5e19dfc9b00f4dc4eac0bf4d31a86&start=15

 

This completely went over my head,I wouldn't even know where to begin with this.

My local dealer would probably look at me like I was crazy. Does it matter if I'm running a Cobb stage 2 OTS? Are you talking about re-flashing the ECU? My car is an AT,but with a Hexmods VB.

 

Thanks,Zack K.

Oh,and Heiche IS awesome!

[Perscitus]

Its not as bad as it may sound.

 

One page back, notice how your LV screencap shows 'A2WC510C'

in the upper right hand corner? This is the CID/CALID (calibration ID in Subaru speak, think of it as a OE assigned ID for a given firmware for a particular car).

 

The latest for your car is 'A2WC521C', likely 3-4 revisions beyond what you are currently running and your COBB Stage 2 OTC tune ia based off of.

 

Since youre on COBB either check for an updated map with them bases off of the CALID I outline and flash to that using the AP or unmarry the AP, flash to latest stock CALID/CID and attempt to remarry the AP, it will either work or prompt for submission of the new firmware to COBB for definition/added support.

 

Do you need to run COBB given your mods? Do you have the AP?

Are you sure a COBB OTS tune is loaded?

 

The other suggestion I have is to update not just the ECU firmware, but also the TCU.

Its fine that yoyve got hexmods VB mod. This is easier because no one tunes the TCU firmware and you likely just have an old one loaded. Its a good idea to reset the TCU anyway especially if not done when hexmod went in.

[zactek]

Its not as bad as it may sound.

 

One page back, notice how your LV screencap shows 'A2WC510C'

in the upper right hand corner? This is the CID/CALID (calibration ID in Subaru speak, think of it as a OE assigned ID for a given firmware for a particular car).

 

The latest for your car is 'A2WC521C', likely 3-4 revisions beyond what you are currently running and your COBB Stage 2 OTC tune ia based off of.

 

Since youre on COBB either check for an updated map with them bases off of the CALID I outline and flash to that using the AP or unmarry the AP, flash to latest stock CALID/CID and attempt to remarry the AP, it will either work or prompt for submission of the new firmware to COBB for definition/added support.

 

Do you need to run COBB given your mods? Do you have the AP?

Are you sure a COBB OTS tune is loaded?

 

The other suggestion I have is to update not just the ECU firmware, but also the TCU.

Its fine that yoyve got hexmods VB mod. This is easier because no one tunes the TCU firmware and you likely just have an old one loaded. Its a good idea to reset the TCU anyway especially if not done when hexmod went in.

 

Ok,I got it now. My AP was acquired used locally for $80 so I can re-flash to stg2 and read codes. It's a V1 and I do have it (the car is running on it now),but not sure if I can do all that with it. I'm running ported manifolds, uncatted UP, catted COBB DP and a Borla catback. Other mods are AVO turbo inlet and lightweight pulleys,so I believe I DO need to run a stage 2 map.

 

I believe the battery was disconnected at least twice since the VB mod,does that reset the TCU?

 

Thanks,Zack K.

[gkinslow]

Ummm someone correct me if I'm wrong but your mods would require a ProTune.

 

Also the AP V1 is no longer supported and known to brick ecu's...again correct me if I'm wrong.

[relative4]

Ummm someone correct me if I'm wrong but your mods would require a ProTune.

 

Also the AP V1 is no longer supported and known to brick ecu's...again correct me if I'm wrong.

 

An OTS Stage 2 tune is fine for those mods. A pro tune is required to take full advantage of the ported manifolds and is always recommended anyway.

 

Upgrading the AP to at least a v2 would indeed be a good idea.

[zactek]

A little update:

 

I have now driven the car 8 times since the original problem surfaced ( bucking/surging) and have not had a problem. The car idles and drives great at all RPM's.

 

3 things that have changed since the problem began:

1. The temp around here has went up and staying warm. Also,every ride I have taken has been with the car warmed up ( because I was messing with the BtSsm,setting up to log)

2. The Allstate DriveWise chip has been unplugged the whole time ( they already contacted me about it not working),gotta call them; debating if I should screw it and leave it off.

3. I have went thru about a half a tank of gas with concentrated fuel injector cleaner.

 

There you have it. I'm happy and annoyed at the same time because undiagnosed problems can surface again,without me having a solution.

 

Zack K.

[relative4]

Here's my understanding of the events so far:

1. You had problems with the the DriveWise plugged in.

2. You unplugged the DriveWise.

3. No problems since.

 

Is that correct? If so, and you're not convinced you've found the cause of your problems, you could plug the DriveWise back in and see what happens.

[zactek]

Here's my understanding of the events so far:

1. You had problems with the the DriveWise plugged in.

2. You unplugged the DriveWise.

3. No problems since.

 

Is that correct? If so, and you're not convinced you've found the cause of your problems, you could plug the DriveWise back in and see what happens.

 

That is correct. I had the Drivewise plugged in for 4 years with no problems,what if it's just a coincidence? I guess I 'll try it one more time with it plugged in!

 

Zack K.

[zactek]

Well,I'm back to square one.

I be been taking drives trying to recreate the conditions under which my problem originally appeared, WITHOUT the DriveWise device plugged in. Well,it happened again. 10 minutes into the drive,the car bucked,I got an exhaust backfire,the tach needle bounced 3-4 times,the CEL flashed BUT did not stay on,cruide light didn't go on,and then everything went back to normal for the rest of the 20 min drive.

Now,on the way back,even though I didn't get any misfire/bucking,I got a CEL and a flashing cruise light.

So,the DriveWise theory is out the window,and the tank of gas with the fuel injector cleaner is gone,so it's not bad gas. Of course I wasn't logging when it all happened,lol. Gonna try to log next time I drive,maybe I'll catch it again. One constant in all this is car is not fully warmed up and I'm at WOT getting on the highway,same spot all the time. Any suggestions welcome....

 

Thanks,Zack K.

[relative4]

Sounds like your ECU is resetting. Could be a corroded battery terminal, bad ECU ground, etc.

 

Obviously it would be nice to have that code. If your OBDLink is plugged in all the time, you can have the code in seconds.

[zactek]

Sounds like your ECU is resetting. Could be a corroded battery terminal, bad ECU ground, etc.

 

Obviously it would be nice to have that code. If your OBDLink is plugged in all the time, you can have the code in seconds.

 

Like an idiot,I unplugged the BtSsm adapter right before it happened,I 'm gonna leave it in and log everytime I drive now. Allstate said I could leave their device unplugged for a few weeks to diagnose my problem. All my grounds are clean and so are the battery terminals but I'll check again. How hard is it to get to the ECU ground?

 

Thanks,Zack K.

[Perscitus]

To eliminate some variables, I'd still vote to unmarry APv1, flash to latest SoA CALID, reapply an open source or COBB v2/3 based tune that fits the mods and uses the new CALID as base (often enough COBB 'maps' use stale base CALIDs so check that if possible ahead of time).

 

From there, I'd pull and inspect the injectors, I bet one or two are starting to clog up (latest symptoms sound very much inline) and maybe just swap all with brand new ones off rockauto or quirkparts, etc. Ultrasonic cleaning or any remanufactured one arent worth it, just add more variables and sources of possible issues.

[06SubLegTx]

Hello,

How many miles on the engine?

Ever had the injector professionally cleaned?

 

 

My car 2006 Legacy Limited with only 99,800 on it, I sent mine injector to a guy/company in Utah.

He did a pre-clean leak down test, spray pattern test. 2 injector were pretty clogged, pattern was like a needle sprayer.

 

He cleaned them, put in new screen on the inlet side, o-rings, seals and did a post test leak down and spray pattern test and came out like new.

[zactek]

To eliminate some variables, I'd still vote to unmarry APv1, flash to latest SoA CALID, reapply an open source or COBB v2/3 based tune that fits the mods and uses the new CALID as base (often enough COBB 'maps' use stale base CALIDs so check that if possible ahead of time).

 

From there, I'd pull and inspect the injectors, I bet one or two are starting to clog up (latest symptoms sound very much inline) and maybe just swap all with brand new ones off rockauto or quirkparts, etc. Ultrasonic cleaning or any remanufactured one arent worth it, just add more variables and sources of possible issues.

 

As much as I'd like to,I simply can't afford a Cobb V2 or 3 right now,and if I unmarry my V1, I don't think it'll play nice with the latest re-flash CALID.

 

I have a spare set of injectors that I was planning to send to HavocSpeed to get professionally cleaned. Is it really not advisable?

 

BTW,this is my latest LV, the I AM went down after my latest misfire,and I got p0301,302,303,and 304 codes again. Does this LV mean anything to you guys?

[zactek]

Last post wouldn't attach

[relative4]

Arright, some useful information. Given the idle trim, I would go through the standard battery of tests and inspections. Start with smoke, looking for vacuum leaks. Inspect/replace main engine grounds from cylinder heads to frame. Inspect/clean battery terminals.

[Perscitus]

Yeah, one step at a time.

Those fuel trims look no good - either the MAF scaling is all off, MAF/MAP sensor or harness is lazy (aka RIP), or again.. the injectors or even one injector is either stuck or leaking.

 

Dont worry about the IAM or Timing corrections for now.

 

Almost all bone stock Subarus are running around with IAMs well below 1 and far more negative timing corrections even on AKI93 E10 top tier fuels... ignorance is bliss.

[zactek]

I haven't had a chance to physically check anything yet,we just had a snow storm here in NY. I did get a chance to log one of my last drives and believe I caught my problem happening right in the beginning of the log. I appreciate everyone's input and hate to waste people's time when they're trying to help me, but something doesn't feel right here.

My problem feels timed, there is a pattern. It occurs only if the car isn't fully warmed up, EXACTLY 10 minutes into the drive and only ONCE. If the car is warmed up,it doesn't happen for a week or more straight. Would vacuum leaks,post MAF leaks,bad injectors or bad battery/ ground terminals act this way?? Wouldn't it be bad all the time?? That's not the case and the car idles great at all times. Anyone care to see the log and see if anything looks off?

 

Thanks, Zack K.