Bluetooth Hands free on P-206UHB, Harman Kardon

[nevets27]

Main question: Will the parrot work with the 206UHB and HK amp?

 

So I want to add bluetooth calling to my 09. I'm also installing a nexus 7. I know there are a few option and I've spent a bit of time researching them.

 

What I want/requirements. I want call audio to go through the speakers no matter which input I'm currently on and I plan on having nav turn audio play regardless of the input also. That's basically my most major requirement. I also want to be able to initiate google now to make calls or send text on my phone.

 

From my searching it looks like the only real option is the parrot. Now one issue I see is that in my 09 the 206UHB HU is wired to the HK amp then off to the speakers. With how the parrot is installed normally (behind the HU) the parrot would be sending amped speaker output into the HK amp and I doubt that's a good idea. I am aware that the 206UHB does send speaker level output but I'm not sure if the HK amp will be happy with what the parrot is outputting.

 

I could possibly wire the parrot after the amp but I'm not sure if that's a viable option either.

 

Now I'm also not thrilled about some of the stuff I've read about parrot's support and their lack of updates. And what I've about some of the reliability of their products.

 

I don't have any need that I can see for any of the functions of the parrot other then bluetooth for calls.

 

So I was thinking that I could maybe wiring something like one of these in? Still looking, not sure if I could just tap into the HU front speaker output to the amp. The ones with amps built in are like the parrot so I don't know how feeding 30 watts into the amp will work?

 

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Would be interesting if I could use something other then the parrot due to having the hk amp. I like that I can have wired buttons. The CSR64215 chips looks to be configurable.

[utc_pyro]

iSimple and GROM make plug and play units for the stock head unit. There is a 20 pin connector on the back just for this kind of stuff.

 

DIY'ing it or using a parrot system is going to be a massive pain with how the unit is set up. Trust me on this, I've done more reverse engineering of the audio path on these things than anyone other than the guys that designed it.

 

The GROM unit will switch to bluetooth regardless of whatever input it's on at the time. So presuming you have the nexus hard wired into the grom AUX port and your phone connected bluetooth calls will win. It wont help if you using the CD player, but who does that now anyway?

 

The other option is to replace the entire head unit. You'd feed the line level output of the new head unit with the hands free features you want into the speaker terminals of the stock harness.

[nevets27]

I actually specifically left out the iSimple and GROM because they won't switch to the SAT input on a call or be able to output nav audio while on any other input. (BTW is there anyway to access the input button/tap into the traces to change the input externally or know when the input has been changed?)

 

Which at that point makes it a glorified bluetooth receiver. It's not really adding much over just getting any bluetooth reciever and plugging it into the aux port along with the nexus through a mixer.

 

If I was exclusively using the nexus for audio then I would see no point in the parrot. But I do listen to the radio a lot, or well I did. I haven't had the nexus in long enough to know if I would switch to listening to it full time but I highly doubt it for a couple reason.

 

I've read that thread, all of it, and really appreciate what information you found and shared. Knowing that the HU outputs 8vrms, as long as the parrot doesn't output more then 8vrms then the amp shouldn't know the difference right?

 

I've done some car audio before but how this HU sends line level to the amp whch is a bit confusing as I've never done that before.

 

I'm also trying to figure out how the parrot gets wired in. I know there is harnesses but I want to know and I may possibly do something myself. Does it tap into the speaker wires or does it actually sit in between the HU and the speakers (or amp in this case) disconnecting HU from the speakers when it sends audio to the speakers?

 

Back to the parrot output, from what I can gather it outputs 20 watts per channel, I assume that would be bad to feed into the amp? Or does it mean I would just have to keep the volume really low on the parrot? If I can't feed the 20 watts into the amp, is there away to lower the output to say 8vrms? If so wouldn't everything play nicely then?

 

After thinking about doing a DIY, there isn't much point as a DIY would end up very similar to how the parrot works now anyway. It would just be way cheaper but there is someone local to me selling a parrot for a pretty cheap price. DIY might be a good project. I actually read one guy on here that DIY his own, not sure what HU, but no information about it ever came out. I just figured since I have an amp already that the bluetooth DIY wouldn't need an amp and therefore could use basically use anyone of those bluetooth receivers. Tap into the speaker wires, find a way to send the right resistance to pin 5 of i85 for mute when the receiver is getting audio, wire up some buttons and a mic.

 

As far as replacing the HU, not interested in doing that right now, don't have much reason to. Maybe some day.

 

I'm stubborn, I know. I rarely pick the easy path. My HID headlight retro is a good example of that. I wanted my next car (which is this one) to have bluetooth and I wanted it to feel integrated as if it was factory installed. Thankfully there is options so if I do end up with isimple/grom I'll still get bluetooth, just not they way I wanted it. Like I said, I'm not a fan of the parrot but it looks like the only device that's available that will fit my major requirement of play audio regardless of the HU's current input.

[utc_pyro]

If you want to be this stuborn, look into hacking the navi audio input. You'll need a VOX circuit to trigger the output cut, but the circuitry is in place to handle this. You'll also need to convert the signal into a "balanced" signal, but some of the off the shelf bluetooth modules do this already.

 

Edit: You'll want to tap in C402,C403,C404,C405 and cut the traces on them going toward the navi input. The reason the previous tries at this sounded like crap is the bandpass filter those caps and L505/L506 forum.

[nevets27]

Well that's an interesting solution. I have no problem doing a bit of circuity work. But I can't find any info on the navi audio input hack. EDIT: ok I see now there was talk about it in your thread, so I'm re-reading that focusing on the nav side of things now. Just a bit confusing which is for the 09 HU and which is for previous and which is common between them.

 

Completely forgot about factory nav, looking at the service manual doesn't show anything really on how it outputs audio. I'm curious how that works also if you know where I can find that info.

[nevets27]

Ok I extracted all the info from that thread relating to nav.

 

Diagram relating to nav

 

I've found a few more interesting things out about the radio. There appears to be a version of the radio with a subwoofer output, just like the old version used in some outbacks. I have no idea if/were this mystery radio is used, but the capability is there. On i85, Pins 4 and 8 are used for woofer +/- (yes, pin-8 is reused).

 

Looking over i88, some thing have change about it as well. The HVAC Tx/Rx are pretty much the same as they were before (hence how we can use these radios with our older cars), but there appears to be a level shifter right on the daughter board now. This section was previously locaten next to the mirocontroller. "Nav Signal -" is now straight to ground, "Nav signal +" still exist, and connects to something around the 20-pin connector. Ignition and ground are still the same. Not sure about the other two wires though.

 

The schematic that is tossed around about the 20-pin connector is WRONG. I've yet to figure it all out, but it does not match the 2008 radio. There are singularity in the supporting circuitry, but the arrangement of the pins is quite different.

 

Again on the 20-pin connector, has any one yet tried the Subaru Media Hub or the bluetooth module with the older radios? I have not found much info on them as of yet, but the media hub should work based on other people's work on getting Satalite radio to work and the PAC making the I-Pod/AUX input for subaru radios across the time gap. There should be a "call mode" hidden in this thing as well accessed through the 20-pin connector, but it may be what happens when one hits the mute line.

 

I'm working on a simple design using a quad-opamp for a signal increase coming off the points posted above. I'll post it up after I select my opamp and run the Spice on it.

 

That actually might. I'll look into it. The only thing I'm unsure of is if it will give me the voltage info I need for larger signals (setting the amps up to avoid clipping and such).

 

Also attached is a pinout of the 20-pin I found through digging on russian sites. I'm still going to check this diagram out, but it actually matches what I saw last night (unlike the other one floating around). It appears that the radio can take the "nav" audio from two sources, backing up what I found last night.

 

I wonder what standard the "Bus" is based on and if it's posible to find some information on it. Also any one have a clue what "B/U" is?*

 

*Edit: B/U = fused battery connection from HU. There is a 5a self resetting poly fuse on the board that feeds this pin, it's used to supply power to bus accessories like the Sattalite tuner, Media Hub, Bluetooth, ect.

 

Navigation unit goes straight into (well, almost) the output amplifier stage. If you want a point to pick that up, I can provide the points. You cannot get usable music from the same point, but it's just a matter of mixing into your main stream or adding another small amp (ie those $15 mini amps on ebay) to power a "navigation" speaker.

 

Possible wiring related to nav?

More pinout/wiring

One more pinout/wiring

2009 specific stuff

Info on the P-206UHB by utc_pyro

[utc_pyro]

It's always interesting when you read a post about how something works, and then realize that you wrote it

 

i88 would be the cleanest method of doing this. Grab a VOX circuit, and a bluetooth receiver (you posted earlier). Pair that with your phone as a handsfree only device, and you should be good to go. You'll use the VOX board to pull pin 6 high and trigger the navi ouput when it detects audio.

 

If you want higher quality audio, you can bypass the input circuitry on the i88 daughterboard, and provide a balanced signal to the VC chip directly. Presuming it's still hooked up that way, it's been a while

 

Edit2: Ok, looking at the diagram it's possible to still get stereo. You'll want to tap into what used to be C299 and C399 and cut the upstream traces. I need to look at the HK radio to verify those are still the correct pads.

[nevets27]

I had to let that digest for a bit but still need a bit of clarification. Scroll down to the red text for the questions directly related to your last post utc_pyro.

 

For completion and due to a local seller having a parrot for pretty cheap. I would like to figure out if how that would work.

 

According to the following it looks like the parrot will work with the 206UHB/HK.

Email from parrot:

I am suuposed to refer you to a certified installer in this case, But off the record i will give you some information, Yes it will work on harman cardon system, and below i will give you the link on the cable harness, to save your time.

 

http://www.quickconnectproducts.com/Find/find.php

That link shows an extra box in the adapter cable. From their FAQ:

Q: I've just learned that my car actually has a downstream amplifier and my sound is way too loud.

A: We are developing an entire line of harnesses that have a black box mid-harness which will allow volume adjustability through the harness. Please check our website or write to us for more information

So my guess is it attenuates the signal?

 

Another user same question/situation

Does anyone know how this works with a HarmonKardon system in a 2009 2.5SE?

 

1. I see the QCHBC-Sub1 quick connector costs almost 3x what the non-HK connector does.

2. QuickConnectProducs FAQ has a FAQ about how in some cars the sub does not mute when a call comes in. Does the HK system fall into this?

 

Info from SVXdc

In 2009 models with the h/k amp, the HU is still sending speaker-level signals to the amp. So the normal QCSub-1 or QCSub-1MK harnesses should work.

 

In 2010-2011 models with the h/k amp, the OEM HU sends line-level signals to the amp. So you'll need the Parrot to send a comparable signal (which means using their special HBC harness, or modifying things yourself to attenuate the Parrot's audio). [uPDATED: Actually, in 2010-2014 Legacy/Outback models with the h/k amp, the HUs do still send amplified signals. So it actually should not be necessary to attenuate the Parrot's audio being fed to the h/k amp (via the factory radio harness).]

 

In any case, the h/k amp uses the radio's 4 speaker signals to generate the subwoofer signal. So when the Parrot mutes the 4 main speaker channels (by effectively cutting the connections between the HU and h/k amp), that will also automatically mute the OEM HU's music going to the h/k sub.

So it might install in the 09 the same as it would in previous years. Or the output of the may have to be attenuated?

 

 

Looks like this user installed a 9100 in a 2009. Reading a few follow up posts it does sound like he wired it "normally" as apposed to using the aux in of the HU.

thought i would show the guys with navi a option. i got the mki9100 model and made the screen sit in my ash tray so i could close it up and hide the screen if i wanted to.

 

 

Before I continue with use the nav input I think I need to understand it more. So I gathered some more info.

 

206UHB (Borrowed from a for sale post here, thanks)

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=261730&stc=1&d=1518141760

 

Pin-out/ plug identification

 

Can be found in the 09 manual:

i26 - 14 pin - HU out to amp (or speakers in previous years), power. Pin out

i85 - 8 pin - Steering wheel controls and Aux in. Pin out

 

From SVXdc

i88 - 8 pin (Grey) - A/C, Nav. Pin out

Pin  Function                  OEM wire color 
1   +12V Ignition (On/Run)    Green/Orange
2   Navi. Signal –            Red/White**
3   TX Data*                  White/Black
4   Navi. Signal +            Red/Black**

5   Chassis Ground            Black/Yellow
6   Navi. In                  Red?**
7   RX Data*                  White
8   Navi. Beep                Green**

 

From utc_pyro

CN703

10  9  8  7  6  5  4  3  2  1
20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11

1 NAVI
2 AUDIO-L
3 AUDIO-R
4 NC
5 NC
6 BUS-ON
7 MUTE
8 BUS -
9 BUS +
10 B/U

11 NAVI-GND
12 AUDIO-GND
13 NC
14 NC
15 NC
16 NC
17 RESET
18 GND(BUS)
19 GND(B/U)
20 BUS-OFF

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79797&stc=1&d=1265134221

 

Actual follow up question bellow Sorry I write some much...

 

So on i88

Navi. Signal – = audio in -

Navi. Signal + = audio in +

Navi. In = Pull up/apply voltage. Would need to know what voltage that should be. 12v?

 

Nav signal -/+ does this need to be a balanced input? or can any audio out (headphone jack/rca) be used?

 

So when pin 6 is pulled up, music will mute and allow audio from the Nav signal into to be played When pin 6 goes back down then music is resumed. Is that how its supposed to work?

 

Now to feed my curiosity

Any idea what i88 pin 8 Navi Beep does? (Ground or pull up = a beep I'm guessing)

 

There seems to be some interesting pins on the CN703, any idea what they do?

1 Navi

7 Mute

11 Navi Ground

 

From you suggestion I think I see what you are getting at with the VOX circuit. The VOX circuit is wired into to the bluetooth audio output so when it starts to outputting audio it will trigger the VOX circuit to pull up pin 6 and mute the music.

 

I think I could alternatively use the mute output function of some of the bluetooth modules (which I think they do have) wired to a relay (as I think most go to ground) to pull up pin 6.

 

If I wanted to use the parrot in the same way. Wire the mute wire like mentioned above, relay wired to pin 6 to pull it up on mute. Wire the rca output to Navi signal input. If the rca won't work I'm sure I could find a suitable output inside the blue box.....

 

Only reason I have any interest in the the parrot, if being wired through the nav, is that its set up as an in car hands free kit. Thus it will take voice commands to pick up the phone. If I can find a DIY bluetooth receiver board that will take voice commands then I don't have any real reason to use the parrot. Though I'm also realizing that anything bluetooth will work, at this point I would consider ripping apart my Motorola roadster and wiring it up to the output of that thing as its always worked well. Though it does have a feature that detects a door being opened or closed which would be a problem.

 

Just saw your edit 2. Not sure if I care about stereo as its only for calls (calls are mono, right?) and nav. But if its not too difficult then I might consider it. So far this sounds like I won't need to touch the circuit board at all. It would allow me to use the bluetooth to stream music if it was stereo though. But I'll likely just add a separate bluetooth receiver for music streaming as it should keep the this hands free less complicated.

 

 

Apparently and interestingly according to SVXdc you could wire line level out directly to the amp

Speaker wires on cars with h/k system

 

Additional info on 20 pin CN703 which is the SAT input

OEM XM Satellite Radio Wiring Harnes

SVXdc info on the 20 pin using a pac adapter to use it as an aux in

[utc_pyro]

The comment about stereo is if you wanted to use whatever BT thing for music as well. If you don't care, than going through the external port is just fine.

 

On the HK radio the, the C703 navi inputs have been depoped so aren't usable. i88 is still there, and the "Navi signal -" is tied directly to audio ground. Thus you really don't need to use a balanced connection. I think it's standard 2Vrms, so the output from a 3.5mm should work.

 

On pin 6 I'd try 5V first, then 12v. It's going to a logic flipping transistor that then feed an input on the main processor so will likely work with ether, but lower might be safer.

 

Navi beep literally made a beep sound through the audio amplifier chip. Think of it as a feedback sound when you push a button.

 

So you plan on taking the Parrot RCA and mute output to i88 should work just fine. If you run into issues, you could try and hook it out between the radio and HK amp but use a voltage divider network to knock the signal down a bit.

[nevets27]

Thanks utc_pyro!

 

Ok so nothing on C703 is usable, got it.

I don't need a balanced output to input to i88, got it.

On pin 6 try 5v first, if that doesn't work try 12v. That makes sense.

Nav beep, that makes sense, feed back from when using the nav buttons.

 

Seems to make the most sense to go with a parrot, it has some essential features needed for hands free in a car. It is interesting though that it would be possible to use any bluetooth that outputs audio, along with the VOX circuit. Any DIY board or one of those standalone speakers (like the Motorola roadster) rip it apart and wire up the outputs and an external mic would likely work.

 

I may be interested in making it stereo after all but I still doubt it. I'll make a post about that in my build log and leave a link here, when I finish it.

 

I'm excited that this might work out nice and seamless like I wanted.

 

EDIT: OK I'd like to know how I could get stereo into the nav input. I looked at the pictures you took for the tutorial and of the 206UHB but I didn't see C299 and C399. Will cutting the traces have any effect on anything else? I assume the only thing it would cause is not being able to use factory nav, which I'll never install.

[utc_pyro]

EDIT: OK I'd like to know how I could get stereo into the nav input. I looked at the pictures you took for the tutorial and of the 206UHB but I didn't see C299 and C399. Will cutting the traces have any effect on anything else? I assume the only thing it would cause is not being able to use factory nav, which I'll never install.

 

Well this was a pain in the ass to trace

 

 

It's R284 and R384 now. In the picture the audio comes in from the right, then hits the two resistors. Those split it between the left and right channel of IC382 (buffer opamp) to the left.

 

I'd cut the traces going into R284 and R384, then solder to the input side of them directly.

[nevets27]

Thanks utc_pyro, really appreciate your help. To confirm this is what I should be doing?

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=264532&stc=1&d=1524818931

 

Another random question. Do you know if there is anyway for me to pick up a signal somewhere to know if the HU is on the AUX input or not? I figure if anyone would know this it would be you.

 

I need to active and deactivate some things when I'm on/off of AUX.

 

Any idea what pin 6 on i85 does?

6 Aux Enable (connect to Chassis Ground) Red/White

Would this help me know if AUX is active? I highly doubt its usefully but I am curious.

 

I should be pulling my HU soon. I'm going to try using the NAV input on i88 first just to make sure that works before wiring to the PCB for stereo. I was thinking about using the NC pins in C703 to wire the stereo inputs to plus a couple other things I want to get out of the HU. See any issue with that?

[utc_pyro]

Thanks utc_pyro, really appreciate your help. To confirm this is what I should be doing?

 

Yep! Cut both sides of the trace coming out from underneath the daughter board to the two resistors though so the are isolated from each other. That way you get stereo sound. Then solder your L and R signal wires to the side of the resistors toward the back of the radio like you show. Ideally ground your shield to the same ground this input op amp uses as well, but any audio ground should be OK.

 

 

Another random question. Do you know if there is anyway for me to pick up a signal somewhere to know if the HU is on the AUX input or not? I figure if anyone would know this it would be you.

 

I need to active and deactivate some things when I'm on/off of AUX.

 

In theory yes. You could sniff the data going to the volume control or input select chip. The former Is on some sort of serial bus so you’d need an arduino or something to parce the data out. The latter may DOES have discrete logic controlling it (haven’t looked in a while), and if so would be easier to deal with. You’d still need a logic gate circuit that will interpret these to "AUX" though.

 

Any idea what pin 6 on i85 does?

6 Aux Enable (connect to Chassis Ground) Red/White

Would this help me know if AUX is active? I highly doubt its usefully but I am curious.

 

That tells the radio that it can turn on the aux input. Not sure if this is switched by the jack or always on, but it just makes the aux button work.

 

I should be pulling my HU soon. I'm going to try using the NAV input on i88 first just to make sure that works before wiring to the PCB for stereo. I was thinking about using the NC pins in C703 to wire the stereo inputs to plus a couple other things I want to get out of the HU. See any issue with that?

 

Probably a good plan. I haven’t bothered powering my bench radio up to see how it reacts to Navi voice. I’ve been actually thinking about building a radio to do this for my Nexus 7 install.

 

Edit2: For determining the input it looks like the input switcher chip is your best option. It's IC201 at the edge of your picture. I cant find the exact datasheet but functionally and I/O wise the TI/NXP 4052B is close enough. You'll need to tap S1 and S2 (pins 9 and 10), it'll be ether 5V or 8V logic. I don't have notes from mapping out the input to that thing handy but it wouldn't take long to figure out experimentally. Q811 and Q810 are acting as logic drivers for these pins.

pdf_HEF4052B.pdf

[nevets27]

OK so I missed a trace to cut, I did see one that looked like it went under the resistors, didn't realize it was connected so I assume this is what you mean by both? I'm sure it will be more clear to me when I have the board in my hand.

 

Added in S1 and S2

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=264564&stc=1&d=1524855392

 

I actually have a couple arduinos laying around now. I was going to try and use a Pro Micro (ATMega32u4) to control the nexus.

 

I'll explain what I plan to do so you have an idea and since you might end up doing something similar.

 

In my case and I'm guess yours also, when not on the AUX input I want the audio going through my parrot which in turn goes through the NAV input. So anytime I get NAV turn prompts or any other notification from the nexus it comes through the speakers. In my case I hope the parrot only sends out the mute command when receiving audio and in your case you would use a VOX to trigger the NAV mute.

 

Now we don't want audio from the nexus to be going through the NAV input when we are using the nexus as it should be using the AUX input for everything (Music/NAV). Though as I write this I realize that wouldn't be such a bad thing as at this point as the NAV input (if wired stereo) is just another AUX now.

 

Using the NAV input as basically an AUX may or may not work for the next part I want to do. I plan to hopefully tap into the seek forward and reverse on the HU PCB buttons. Then run those into the arduino along with the steering wheel control resistive button wires. Then into the nexus as a HID (keyboard) device. I know that when on the AUX input these do nothing on the HU therefore using them while on AUX should work fine. When on any other input of course they function as they should.

 

So initially I wanted to be able to use knowing if the HU was on AUX or not to trigger an audio switch to move the nexus audio output to the AUX input while active or the NAV input when not on AUX. Additionally I was going to use that to turn off/disable the control of the nexus via the HU and steering wheel buttons so as to not be changing tracks on the nexus at the same time I'm changing radio stations.

 

Now I'll need to figure out

1) what happens to the button functions (steering wheel and HU seek) when NAV input is active. Do they function the same (changing radio stations) or do they do nothing?

2) If hitting next track in android even when nothing is playing does nothing. I worry it might start playing music. If so then I won't have to disable the inputs to the nexus when not on AUX.

 

If both the HU and steering wheel seek controls do nothing while on NAV input and there is no adverse effects of hitting next track while not listening to music on android then I guess there is no reason to use the AUX input nor any need to know its state.

[utc_pyro]

OK so I missed a trace to cut, I did see one that looked like it went under the resistors, didn't realize it was connected so I assume this is what you mean by both? I'm sure it will be more clear to me when I have the board in my hand.

 

Added in S1 and S2

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=264564&stc=1&d=1524855392

 

The red line is where the audio comes into the circuit. You need to cut it right at the side of the resistor. That other trace is something else.

 

I actually have a couple arduinos laying around now. I was going to try and use a Pro Micro (ATMega32u4) to control the nexus.

 

Keyboard emulation or something? I'm currious.

 

In my case and I'm guess yours also, when not on the AUX input I want the audio going through my parrot which in turn goes through the NAV input. So anytime I get NAV turn prompts or any other notification from the nexus it comes through the speakers. In my case I hope the parrot only sends out the mute command when receiving audio and in your case you would use a VOX to trigger the NAV mute.

 

Now we don't want audio from the nexus to be going through the NAV input when we are using the nexus as it should be using the AUX input for everything (Music/NAV). Though as I write this I realize that wouldn't be such a bad thing as at this point as the NAV input (if wired stereo) is just another AUX now.

 

Using the NAV input as basically an AUX may or may not work for the next part I want to do. I plan to hopefully tap into the seek forward and reverse on the HU PCB buttons. Then run those into the arduino along with the steering wheel control resistive button wires. Then into the nexus as a HID (keyboard) device. I know that when on the AUX input these do nothing on the HU therefore using them while on AUX should work fine. When on any other input of course they function as they should.

 

There is ether a UART an I2C bus between the front panel and the main CPU (based on the various JDM radios I found the service manual for). You could tap into those busses instead of trying to tap the individual buttons.

 

So initially I wanted to be able to use knowing if the HU was on AUX or not to trigger an audio switch to move the nexus audio output to the AUX input while active or the NAV input when not on AUX. Additionally I was going to use that to turn off/disable the control of the nexus via the HU and steering wheel buttons so as to not be changing tracks on the nexus at the same time I'm changing radio stations.

 

Now I'll need to figure out

1) what happens to the button functions (steering wheel and HU seek) when NAV input is active. Do they function the same (changing radio stations) or do they do nothing?

2) If hitting next track in android even when nothing is playing does nothing. I worry it might start playing music. If so then I won't have to disable the inputs to the nexus when not on AUX.

 

If both the HU and steering wheel seek controls do nothing while on NAV input and there is no adverse effects of hitting next track while not listening to music on android then I guess there is no reason to use the AUX input nor any need to know its state.

 

The biggest issue on using the Navi input full time is there is no volume control. In an ideal world, one would have some sort of audio router software on the Nexus that would send navi/alert signals out one way (say the built in 3.5mm or bluetooth) to the Navi input, and send music out a USB DAC plugged into the AUX input. That way the navi volume is fixed, and the music is variable. It Would also keep the steering wheel controls active when you're on other radio controls.

[nevets27]

The red line is where the audio comes into the circuit. You need to cut it right at the side of the resistor. That other trace is something else.

Ah ok, got it. The big trace goes into both resistors. Makes sense with everything else you've said. So just making that one cut in the first pic I edited is sufficient.

 

Keyboard emulation or something? I'm currious.

Yup. Some info here

It unfortunately doesn't do media buttons. So I'm hoping I can make due with the directional keys for skipping music. Or some other work around if needed. If all fails then there is always the joycon also but the pro micro is only a few dollars, so its worth a shot. The arduino can also use rotary, mouse, and joystick inputs so that might be useful for navigating in android or anything else really. Hell could use an RF remote, any input could control the nexus/android as long as its a keyboard command. Which I'm sure using something like tasker to make pretty much anything happen.

 

There is ether a UART an I2C bus between the front panel and the main CPU (based on the various JDM radios I found the service manual for). You could tap into those busses instead of trying to tap the individual buttons.

 

Well that would be a hell of a lot cleaner solution and provide a lot more flexibility. Fortunately I'm pretty sure that could be fed into an arduino. Unfortunately I'm getting close to my limit of understanding. Not saying that's a wall but it will be a big challenge without some hand holding.

 

The biggest issue on using the Navi input full time is there is no volume control. In an ideal world, one would have some sort of audio router software on the Nexus that would send navi/alert signals out one way (say the built in 3.5mm or bluetooth) to the Navi input, and send music out a USB DAC plugged into the AUX input. That way the navi volume is fixed, and the music is variable. It Would also keep the steering wheel controls active when you're on other radio controls.

 

I didn't realize the Nav input didn't have volume control. That pretty much kills using it as a full time input. I wonder how that may effect using it as an input. I might not be able to use the parrot as a bluetooth receiver to stream music then either (not a big deal). But at that point I wonder if there is much point to wiring in stereo if its only going to be used for Nav or phone. Good chance I'll do it anyway if this all pans out.

 

Thankfully in my case the parrot has volume control but I don't know if it will control the AUX out, I get the sneaky suspicion it won't.

 

How is the Nav volume controlled in the OEM configuration?

 

That ideal world you speak of is what I actually initially looked into doing. I would like to do exactly that, as it would be perfect but I haven't seen a way to do it. There was an app I tried on the nexus but it didn't work. From what I remember google maps nav audio is the same is media. Since the only audio the app could reroute was calls, notifications and media. The nav audio and music auto are considered the same.

[nevets27]

Well I pulled the HU and was lucky enough to find some pins I had ripped out of an older subaru that fit the missing wires on i88. Now I was after some info on if "nav in" is 5v or 12v. I know you said try 5v then 12v. But I was being lazy and decided to do some searching.

 

Found the service manual for the Nav here

 

Starting here in this thread is some info, some of it is definitely wrong but sounds like pin 6 is looking for 5v.

 

Now one thing I did learn about the Nav mute from that thread, since I've never been in legacy with Nav, is that it will only mute the front speakers. That might be an issue, but we'll see.

 

I also tested out the parrot and thankfully the volume control work on the line out.

 

Anyhow, I'll wire it up tomorrow and apply 5v and see what happens.

[utc_pyro]

I ended up buying another '09 radio this morning to test this as well. Another option may be to hijack the audio selector chip and drive it directly. That way you can have your the same effect as the Navi input.

[nevets27]

Glad to see you getting interested in this for yourself also. Do you mean switch to aux in when getting a mute signal from the parrot?

 

Well I built a little circuit today to turn the ground output of the parrot into 5v for the HU.

 

Everything doesn't work as smoothing as I would like but I'm not surprised and that's mostly on the parrot side of things.

So

1) it won't take the aux in cable input without be selected so having the nexus input audio for Nav via that method is useless (not going to change that setting every time I turn the car on)

 

2)Since aux in from the nexus to the parrot isn't going to work I tried connecting the nexus to the parrot via bluetooth. That works, it will auto connect every time the car is turned on. But that then causes another problem. To use the nexus to listen to music via the AUX in/headphone jack out on the nexus I have to turn the bluetooth off.

 

3) since the Nav input is only to the front speakers then its not a viable way to stream bluetooth audio, granted going into this I was really going to care if that worked or really even planned on using it but would be nice for it to work as I makes for one less thing I have to make work a different way.

 

So trying to figure out away around some of the shortcomings but things keep changing, especially with all the tricks up your sleeve that might open up different solutions.

 

BTW, do you have any info on the data bus on CN703?

 

If I have to put bluetooth streaming in via something else other then the parrot, I was thinking of utilizing that port. Now I do have sat radio in there right now, no subscription atm and not sure if I ever will, maybe. So easiest answer is a GROM with bluetooh plugged into that port. Instant bluetooth streaming now on the sat input and it also allows you to skip tracks via the HU.

 

The 2 questions are, can you plug multiple devices into that port some how, say both the GROM and sat radio? Reason I ask is the sat radio harness is a y connector, or pass through. It has a plug on it same as the back of the HU making it seem like it could be used for something. Second is, if there is any info on the data bus, if it generic enough to used some sort of generic bluetooth to data bus adapter is such thing exists, would be nicer then dumping a bunch on money on the GROM ($200USD for a bluetooth adapter is out of my price range).

[utc_pyro]

Glad to see you getting interested in this for yourself also. Do you mean switch to aux in when getting a mute signal from the parrot?

 

Yep that exactly.

 

Though were you able to confirm on the north american head unit it only mutes the front speakers? When I was tracing the audio path it looked like it went straight into the input selector on the newer radios.

 

BTW, do you have any info on the data bus on CN703?

 

If I have to put bluetooth streaming in via something else other then the parrot, I was thinking of utilizing that port. Now I do have sat radio in there right now, no subscription atm and not sure if I ever will, maybe. So easiest answer is a GROM with bluetooh plugged into that port. Instant bluetooth streaming now on the sat input and it also allows you to skip tracks via the HU.

 

The 2 questions are, can you plug multiple devices into that port some how, say both the GROM and sat radio? Reason I ask is the sat radio harness is a y connector, or pass through. It has a plug on it same as the back of the HU making it seem like it could be used for something. Second is, if there is any info on the data bus, if it generic enough to used some sort of generic bluetooth to data bus adapter is such thing exists, would be nicer then dumping a bunch on money on the GROM ($200USD for a bluetooth adapter is out of my price range).

 

They call it "SIE Bus" but I cant find any information about the data format. It DOES support chaining of devices though, some of the OEM radio manual for newer go into that a bit. You can also run the media hub from the 4th gen cars and some imprezas/foristers if you find one with the options you want.

 

I have an iSimple box in the car right now, and a GROM to go in with the new radio. Each on simulates three sat connections, so I'll plug both in and see if the radio supports 6.

 

If I cant find a way to get JUST the navi voice routed through the navi input my current plan is to use the GROM bluetooth my my Nexus 7, USB to my iPhone, and put a generic bluetooth adapter on the GROM's analog input. Doing everything wireless when it's less than a meter apart is kind of silly, but it's the cleanest way to pass button controls to both the Nexus and iPhone.

[nevets27]

Yep that exactly.

 

Though were you able to confirm on the north american head unit it only mutes the front speakers? When I was tracing the audio path it looked like it went straight into the input selector on the newer radios.

 

Confirmed. In this post, he posted the block diagram that actually shows it only going into the front speakers.

 

On the parrot FAQ

Why does the sound of the hands-free system only come through the vehicle's front speakers?

It is normal for the sound of telephone conversations to be played only through the vehicle’s two front speakers.

This is the basic operating mode.

 

So from the the searching I've done it seems to be normal for phone calls/Nav to only have audio going to the front speakers.

 

I'm just finishing up a couple more wires and the HU is going back in. I'll see how this works real world for a bit. I'm thinking its not going to bother me actually. For Nav (which is what the input is intended for) muting and using only the front speakers is preferable. That way you still hear your music when getting turn by turn. Now on a phone call its a bit less desirable. But the positive is you can control the volume of the rear speakers, and the mute button will mute the rear speakers while the Nav input is active. So if getting a call and your listening to music relatively quietly then you could likely take the call without even muting the rear speakers, and it lets you have music playing while on the phone (helpful if the person is boring ). If you need quiet, then hit the mute button. Not exactly how I planned or expected it to turn out but I'll see if it works in practice.

 

 

They call it "SIE Bus" but I cant find any information about the data format. It DOES support chaining of devices though, some of the OEM radio manual for newer go into that a bit. You can also run the media hub from the 4th gen cars and some imprezas/foristers if you find one with the options you want.

 

I have an iSimple box in the car right now, and a GROM to go in with the new radio. Each on simulates three sat connections, so I'll plug both in and see if the radio supports 6.

 

If I cant find a way to get JUST the navi voice routed through the navi input my current plan is to use the GROM bluetooth my my Nexus 7, USB to my iPhone, and put a generic bluetooth adapter on the GROM's analog input. Doing everything wireless when it's less than a meter apart is kind of silly, but it's the cleanest way to pass button controls to both the Nexus and iPhone.

 

Clearly GROM and iSimple know the data format, nice if they would share. Interesting, chaining and media hub. Both of those things opens up some possibilities. I'll have to do some research on the media hub. Looks to basically be the same as the GROM/iSimple. Do you know of/seen real world use of the media hub being used with our 3rd gen HUs/ the 206UHB? Just don't want to get burned if look to buy one.

 

Yeah I think I was either suggested by someone, read it somewhere or thought of the same thing of doing everything over bluetooth. Which I agree is silly which is why dong it that way kind of bothers me. But hey if it turns out to be the best solution then so be it. I'm partly concerned about audio quality and reliability of doing everything wirelessly/bluetooth. I'm not an audiophile by any means but I do know music is compressed to be played over bluetooth so it should technically be of lower quality then directly being wired.

 

Too bad you can't just connect to the GROM for media control over bluetooth only. With the audio actually being run over the analog input. Through it might be possible if you keep it paired but disable routing of media audio in bluetooth settings, maybe the media controls would still work, though I doubt it. I'll try that technique with the parrot. I think that would be kind of the same.

[utc_pyro]

Confirmed. In this post, he posted the block diagram that actually shows it only going into the front speakers.

 

That block diagram if for the EDM head unit. Outs is VERY differant internally.

 

Did you confirm it on YOUR head unit?

 

Too bad you can't just connect to the GROM for media control over bluetooth only. With the audio actually being run over the analog input. Through it might be possible if you keep it paired but disable routing of media audio in bluetooth settings, maybe the media controls would still work, though I doubt it. I'll try that technique with the parrot. I think that would be kind of the same.

 

Well, you COULD do that actually. The input to the radio is standard 1/2vrms analog. Snip the wires and wire them to your analog cable.

[utc_pyro]

Did some testing, you CAN NOT use a GROM and iSimple at the same time to get two BT's. I plugged the GROM in behind the iSimple, and no audio from it was passed. Seems like data was though as it called out the correct AUX port on the GROM on the display.

 

For changing might only work properly between OEM devices.

[nevets27]

That block diagram if for the EDM head unit. Outs is VERY differant internally.

 

Did you confirm it on YOUR head unit?

 

Yeah I had confirmed it with my 206UHB. I thought that block diagram was accurate because it does only mute the front speakers, which it what it looks like it shows there.

 

Well, you COULD do that actually. The input to the radio is standard 1/2vrms analog. Snip the wires and wire them to your analog cable.

Actually I was thinking the issue would be android would try to be sending the audio via bluetooth. But I think it actually defaults to hardwired (not sure how that will play out with a usb dac).

 

Using bluetooth for media only control is an interesting idea, though.

 

Did some testing, you CAN NOT use a GROM and iSimple at the same time to get two BT's. I plugged the GROM in behind the iSimple, and no audio from it was passed. Seems like data was though as it called out the correct AUX port on the GROM on the display.

 

For changing might only work properly between OEM devices.

 

Interesting, thanks for testing that out. I read the manual for the media hub and it does say the sat uses 1-3 and the media hub will use 4-6. So 3 per module like you said.

 

 

 

Now my first impressions with using the Nav input with the parrot.

 

1) When taking a call, front speakers mute, call audio comes through the front speakers. All HU/steering wheel controls are still active. Hitting mute will mute the rear speakers, the front will continue to have call audio. Call ends front speaker become active again.

Problem: With phone volume and parrot volume cranked the call volume is too low. When I had first tested it, I wasn't driving and didn't realize the volume would be too low to be usable while driving.

So currently taking calls, due to low volume, is not really functional.

 

Suggestions? I think the manual for the HU says it expects 1.2w rms on the nav input. I guess I'll meter what the parrot is sending out on the line out. I was then thinking of using the speaker level out as it would be higher powered. Bad idea? I'll meter that first, as I don't want to blow up the HU.

 

2) Nav, so far I have the Nexus connected to the parrot via bluetooth. When nav speaks, front speakers mute and nav audio comes through. Oddly enough the Nav volume is acceptable. As of writing this I guess that means some how my phone's volume is lower then the nexus. Though the nexus and the parrot are still cranked to have the volume at that reasonable level.

Problem: If I plug in to the headphone then all audio is routed over the headphone jack and therefore the nav audio won't come over the bluetooth.

 

So definitely a good input for Nav or phone calls. Does act and feel OEM like, when its all working. But still a bunch of kinks and quirks to figure out.

 

The main thing to figure out is routing Nav audio from the nexus to the HU nav input, while not on the same input as the nexus is when streaming audio from it. Might be a better way to explain that. So far the only thought disconnecting the analog cable going to the nexus. Using an audio switch via the input select bus.

 

Lots of playing an figuring out still to do.

 

Oh one other way I was looking into media controls was you can skip tracks on the HU using the usb on the GROM. But it can't be plugged into a device that is a host, like how the nexus is setup. I emailed them as streaming audio over usb with media controls would be really useful. But that didn't go far. I actually was trying to figure this all out in my build thread here, probably should start a new one for just this stuff.

[nevets27]

Was just going to go check the output voltage of the parrot but wanted to be sure what the HU is expecting. So according to this level diagram. It expects a 1.2V-rms. Now what I also noticed was it brings the volume down -23.8db on IC23 (Selector). If I'm understanding that correctly is this why the volume is so low?

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=54521&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1465367737

 

EDIT: Turns out it's the parrot (not too shockingly). Measured the output from the parrot:

Line Level output

Streaming music - Max 0.7v

Phone call - Max 0.07v

 

Speaker level

Streaming music - Max 6.2v

Phone call - Max 2.1v

 

So clearly neither are ideal. Now that was with the parrot volume on max for all tests. So I could likely use the speaker level out and keep the volume low but I don't want to blow the HU. So I guess the best thing to do would somehow limit the max voltage on the speaker level out and feed that into the HU.

 

The extremely little use I've had with the parrot has not be a good experience so its possible it will get replaced but for now I want to get it working.