RacingFish Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 i got a mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FARIS Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I am relatively new to this forum. I enjoy the discussions, both in title and content. You all are very knowledgable and helpful to those who post. But, I have a caviot to this thread and others discussing the specb. It seems that there are quite a few people out there who have said that it is stupid to purchase a specb when you could buy a regular gt and save the money aprox.$10000 and use this money to build a specb and save some cash. My problem with this argument is that if no one buys the specb and mods their gt, why in the world would SOA bother to ever send a STI version to America when we have shown 0 passion for their performance offers, however small they might be. By not selling out the specb we are essentially building a buisness case for SOA to not go forward with more advanced models for the American line up. Also, everyone getting a great deal on their gts 05's for $22-25000 does not bode well for more advanced models as it shows how much SOA has to drop their price to get the last model years off the lot. I know other manufactures do this as well, but the new for 05 redisgned legacy not selling for the MSRP $28xxx shows that the market demand is very low. Sorry to rant just a personal observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayout Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Lets look at the numbers: Lets build a manual limited to Spec B levels: - a manual limited GT = $28,795 - navigation = $2000 - Spec B Bilstien = $2-3 grand - 18" rims & RE050= $500 more than 17" RE92 - For the unique interior = $500 - MP3 Capable radio + steering controls = $500 Estimated MSRP Total = $34,295-35,295 vs $33,995 actual official MSRP - Dealer/market-dependant markup for being a limited run = $0-1000 So if you take into consideration MSRP to MSRP, no incentives since it's a first-time ever, new and limited run, I would say the price is fair. But what Subaru could've offered was the navigation as optional since it and it only drives the price up so high. I keed I keeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWDxBOOST Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 i just saw 263 today at my old work...looks pretty good so...how much for the ssr comps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris112 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Just a short thrown, ECU upgrade and amp/subwoofer. I will give more driving impressions after this weekend. Spec B 265/500 I was pretty sure that they came with short throws... I atleast thought they would.. The one I sat in had it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 I just want those rims! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmarch Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 How many people buy a $2,000 Dell computer when they can build a much better one themselves for $1,000 less? who knows? I buy $450 dell laptops, and build desktops when required. Still not totally the same situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenWeasel Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 By not selling out the specb we are essentially building a buisness case for SOA to not go forward with more advanced models for the American line up. By selling out the SpecBs we are essentially telling them that they can continue to ignore suggestions from the people who buy most of their cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon in CT Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 By selling out the SpecBs we are essentially telling them that they can continue to ignore suggestions from the people who buy most of their cars.I was happy to send a signal to Subaru that 18" wheels, aluminum control arms, Bilstein suspension, inverted struts, nice leather seats with matching door card inserts, electroluminescent gauges and navigation system with manual transmission are all good ideas. Xenon HID headlamps, Brembo brakes and 6sp manual transmission are even better ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenWeasel Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 ']I was happy to send a signal to Subaru that 18" wheels, aluminum control arms, Bilstein suspension, inverted struts, nice leather seats with matching door card inserts, electroluminescent gauges and navigation system with manual transmission are all good ideas. Xenon HID headlamps, Brembo brakes and 6sp manual transmission are even better ideas. You win the lollipop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emlevins Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 ']I was happy to send a signal to Subaru that 18" wheels, aluminum control arms, Bilstein suspension, inverted struts, nice leather seats with matching door card inserts, electroluminescent gauges and navigation system with manual transmission are all good ideas. Xenon HID headlamps, Brembo brakes and 6sp manual transmission are even better ideas. I agree on all..except for "nice leather seats with matching door card inserts". I DO NOT like the brick red and I do not like the door inserts. Don't like the blue in the STi and don't like the brick red in the Spec B. Just personal taste. BUT - I have not seen it (Spec B) in person so take those comments with a grain of salt. And then again, we all like "nice leather seats" and they are nice leather seats (if they are like the 05 LGT) I'm all for SOA building more performance oriented cars for us to buy!!! 05 SWP Legacy GT Limited (aka "Pearl")- 5MT AP - Stage 2 Protuned (238/284) - wife driven 07 BMW 335xi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon in CT Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 I DO NOT like the brick red and I do not like the door inserts. Don't like the blue in the STi and don't like the brick red in the Spec B. Just personal taste. BUT - I have not seen it (Spec B) in person so take those comments with a grain of salt. And then again, we all like "nice leather seats" and they are nice leather seats (if they are like the 05 LGT) I'm all for SOA building more performance oriented cars for us to buy!!!I'm guessing you don't like any of Subaru's color schemes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 I Sat in Spec B #260 in the service dept. of Stan Olsen Subaru in Omaha today. The color is better than pics suggest. Both inside and out. I still think there are better choices than dark silver. but it isn't nearly as blue as some pics seems to show it. The red leather is darker than pics, and evidently is easily bleached by glare or flash. It is actually quite dark maroon. VERY nice. Very classy. Will put more of a review on the official Spec B thread... but just to say, PLEASE check out the color in person before you set your opinion in stone. As positive as my experience was today, it is still overpriced, and I will probably not get one unless I can get it for 30K or less, before trade, with incentives... out the door. I would be happy with one for that price. $34k+ is just too much. Other than that I will be looking for a nice GT Limited with a 5MT and black interior, possibly even a used 05. As long as it isn't blue, I'll be saving for the red interior peices to install. And the bilstein inverted struts plus other suspension parts. All this unless the 07 Legacy looks like a hot ticket... we'll see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RacingFish Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 I work at a dealership and ive notice that the vets dont really care the views of one persons taste. their motto is that you cant please everyone and those that complain are the sameones complaining about the ozone and this and that. lets get real subaru did their research and came to the conclusion that the brick red leather was a "winner" in their eye. if you dont like it.... well then dont buy it.. i find that most people who buy subarus are going to buy another one. we are a very "special" car company. our customers do their research and know what they want. people wanted a navi system with a 5spd bam its in the spec b. people wanted to see the car lowered on 18's... bam its done. personally i love the spec b. i think that soa shoulda put in a bigger turbo but hey thats just my opinon. they spent a lot of money doing studies on what they should do for the usdm spec b. im not gonna question it. and when people say it is overpriced... i have to say one thing... if you make 200k per year is 5-8k going to make you broke??? nope... maybe its not the car you should be looking at (outta your price range). i understand most americans make 40k or under per year... but hey thats why you can get a kia for 10 bux with a 100 thousand mile warrenty. all these negative comments on the spec b is kinda like what my mom told me when i was FOUR years old.... if you dont have anything good to say.... you know the rest... just my 2 cents <))>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 I DONT MAKE THAT KIND OF MONEY!!!! And I AM THE DEMOGRAPHIC for selling those Spec Bs. I am a 28 year old college-educated professional looking for an AWD performance sedan. Granted I could probably be making a little bit more money than I do right now, if I had a better job. But 200k annual is about 4x what I could/should be making at this stage. Someone with 200k annual income is looking at 50-80k cars. Not a special edition of a 27k car. Jaguar S-Type. BMW 5 Series. E-class mercedes. M45, RL, GS430, for starters. Before expounding on the research and ultimate knowledge of SOA's product planners... check out the poll thread about whether SOA was stupid by canning the Legacy's interior options... Yeah, SOA is the epitome of smart marketing decisions... NOT! http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21022 I was very impressed with the Spec B today. So was my wife, and my mother in law. It is still overpriced. MSRP is ~$8K over an incentivised 06 GT Limited. It could be as much as ~$12k over an 05 GT holdover, or lightly used 05. 8k-12k. That is A LOT of money for me to finance for a car that is essentially a cosmetic upgrade from any other Legacy GT. It does not have more power. It doesn't have Brembos. It does not have a 6-speed with VTD AWD. It doesn't even have traction control. (not that it needs it... but it isn't even a selling point.) It has red leather. I can buy and install those parts in a weekend, then resell the original parts. It has NAV, which is available on other Legacys, and will probably prove to be retrofit-able, if someone should want it. I don't "have-to" have it. It has special paint. It isn't WRB, or Solid Red. Obsidian Black or Garnet red would be better choices with the red interior. The paint isn't going to sell the car. WRB or Solid Red might actually SELL the car. I'd push the budget harder for it if it were either of those colors. It has Bilstein suspension. Great, and it sounds like it really works. I'd pay a grand, or two even, to put that on a regular GT. Not $8k. I can pick the parts myself and install them for MUCH less. This really should be an option package... It already is, in Japan, and it works that way. It has TPMS and audio controls on the wheel. Those should be standard on ALL LGTs. Nuff said. BTW, Speaking of KIAs... My mother in law is in love with the jaguar looking front end of the Kia Amante. We looked at that today, too. The option list was long, but it is a wannabe-luxo, not a sport sedan at all. Guess what? 29.9k. I was blown away that a hungry korean company with an ultra-economy reputation would be feilding a car for 30k, and that a Legacy GT Limited is SOOO much of a better car for the same money. So saying "If you can't afford a Legacy, then get a cheap crap Kia..." doesn't necessarily hold up. They aren't that cheap anymore, and even if they still are crap, they are well optioned. They may not be crap anymore, either, I don't know. I do know that the Amante isn't less expensive than the Legacy GT. Plus SOA needs to sell cars to the $25-30k market, *which is ME! in a few months...* They aren't going to be able to sell as well to the 35-50k crowd. BMWs and Audis are much better optioned, and have much more well known names in that crowd, not to mention the japanese rivals from Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus. Besides, if we all still followed Mom's advice about speaking badly... how many horrible things would be going on in this world, more than already do? I guess that if someone has nothing good to say about Saddam Hussein, then we should all just clam up about it?... Good advice for a kindergartener, but doesn't universally apply in the world of adults, now does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayout Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Lets look at the numbers: Lets build a manual limited to Spec B levels: - a manual limited GT = $28,795 - navigation = $2000 - Spec B Bilstien = $2-3 grand - 18" rims & RE050= $500 more than 17" RE92 - For the unique interior = $500 - MP3 Capable radio + steering controls = $500 Estimated MSRP Total = $34,295-35,295 vs $33,995 actual official MSRP - Dealer/market-dependant markup for being a limited run = $0-1000 So if you take into consideration MSRP to MSRP, no incentives since it's a first-time ever, new and limited run, I would say the price is fair. But what Subaru could've offered was the navigation as optional since it and it only drives the price up so high. IWSS, If you consider the features, options it comes with and its limited/unique run, $34k MSRP is fair. Like RacingFish said, if it's out of your price range, it's out of your price range. I keed I keeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon in CT Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 I DONT MAKE THAT KIND OF MONEY!!!! And I AM THE DEMOGRAPHIC for selling those Spec Bs. I am a 28 year old college-educated professional looking for an AWD performance sedan. Granted I could probably be making a little bit more money than I do right now, if I had a better job. But 200k annual is about 4x what I could/should be making at this stage. Someone with 200k annual income is looking at 50-80k cars. Not a special edition of a 27k car. Jaguar S-Type. BMW 5 Series. E-class mercedes. M45, RL, GS430, for starters.No, you're not the type of buyer that Subaru expects will purchase a spec.B. Subaru anticipates the typical spec.B buyer will be a male and in his 30s or 40s, with commensurate income. Such buyers CAN afford to buy a more expensive car than the spec.B but choose not to waste their money. And they're not interested in base GT's that lack ammenities such as factory-installed navigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Spec B Bilstien = $2-3 grand Since when did the suspension cost that much? The springs are the same I think. (not lowered like someone else said, I wish I was wrong) The dampers are different, I should be able to get the dampers for about $1200, so I would say the increase in price is around $500-800. The aluminum bits would increase price another $500. Is there something that I am missing? Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWD VER Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 I DONT MAKE THAT KIND OF MONEY!!!! And I AM THE DEMOGRAPHIC for selling those Spec Bs. I am a 28 year old college-educated professional looking for an AWD performance sedan. Granted I could probably be making a little bit more money than I do right now, if I had a better job. But 200k annual is about 4x what I could/should be making at this stage. Someone with 200k annual income is looking at 50-80k cars. Not a special edition of a 27k car. Jaguar S-Type. BMW 5 Series. E-class mercedes. M45, RL, GS430, for starters. Just because you want one, doesn't mean you can afford it or you'll get one. You just tagged yourself the demographic, they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Keep in mind, people... When you put bilstein suspension in, or add red leather from the factory, that is one set of non-bilstein struts, and one set of black leather seats that you don't have to buy. That is one set of 17" wheels that don't need to be made. That is one set of steel suspension that doesn't need to be made. That recoups some of the added cost of the special-run parts. Paying retail for aftermarket parts, versus paying for factory installed options are two different things. But what costs the company less, in this case, means MORE out of the customer's pocket. Some of you seem to miss the point of VALUE. I never said I could in no way afford the Spec B. I could buy it right now. It would be poor financial planning, but I could do it. That is not my point. I know that I want to pay off one of my current cars, and trade the other in. That will mean that I will only have one car payment, and it will be lower than the two I am making now. That way, my budget will actually improve from what it is now, rather than go the other way by adding a high payment to my budget while I am still paying another. Even when I do get the other car paid off, I could still buy the LGT Spec B then, if there are any available. It would probably increase my payments to the point where they aren't much lower than what I pay now. I could still afford it. BUT I CHOOSE NOT TO at this point. As I pointed out earlier, I can't justify paying 42-60 months of interest on an extra $8-12K principal for cosmetic reasons. I think it is a mistake for Subaru to market it that way, when they do so much better of a job with the Spec B in Japan and other parts of the world. I would think differently if there were more content. If there were more power, if there were a 6MT/VTD (from the 3.0 Spec B), if there were Brembo brakes... That would be "worth" more to me. As it is, the US GT Spec B is a nice car. If it were 29.9K base price, I would definitely choose it. If it were 31.9k, I would consider it. At 33.9k, and some asking as much as 38k, they've crossed the line, when considering what is offered. We should probably take this discussion out of Keith's thread, and over to the general pros and cons of the Spec B thread... I don't want to diminish Keith's excitement over his new Spec B. But I also am not going to back down and say that SOA is all knowing and absolutely correct in their strategy when they are not. When some of you are ready to talk about something objectively, rather than just saying "why don't you take your ball somewhere else to play..." I'll be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emlevins Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 ']I'm guessing you don't like any of Subaru's color schemes. Wrong. I like MOST - just not the TWO I specifically mentioned (which I now see you own ). Didn't mean to offend. Sorry if I did. 05 SWP Legacy GT Limited (aka "Pearl")- 5MT AP - Stage 2 Protuned (238/284) - wife driven 07 BMW 335xi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red beast Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 I just want those rims! you're nuts! the rims you have a far better looking on your car then the others would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
km580 Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 1: People with more money than sense 2: People with no clue 3: People who don't know how to build it themselves, and who want warranty support. Don't rag on the dude. He got what he wanted and that's what counts. Fat people are hard to kidnap!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
km580 Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 What I would like to know is if it has the stutter and shudder like the rest of us. Fat people are hard to kidnap!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 you're nuts! the rims you have a far better looking on your car then the others would be. Well, I don't have them anymore as two were bent in a loosing engounter with a crater. Being sent a set of the new Rota Torque in 18 and in Bronze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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