upstater Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Why don't you tell us what you really think. Your lost! You are really atva lost for $150.00 :shakinghead: Laughing at oneself and with others is good for the Soul![emoji2] Costs more to buy, more to operate, but money is irrelevant so buy an Audi! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldguy Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Why don't you tell us what you really think. Your lost! You are really atva lost for $150.00 :shakinghead: Laughing at oneself and with others is good for the Soul![emoji2] I really think what I said. It's not that much if you really like the 3.6 and just like the extra power. It's not an insignificant expense if you're a numbers person, wanna save some money, and like to factor everything in and have an average income. Laughing at oneself and with others is good for the Soul!http://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji2.png Laughing at oneself and with others is good for the Soul!http://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji2.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Well, my 2.5 has a timing belt. So I now will pay 1000 for a timing belt and pump and new tensioners/pulleys instead of just getting the 3.6 years ago. If $150 makes or breaks the bank for you, a new car is probably not a viable option. So instead of paying the extra gas this whole time along with the extra for the 6 engine, I’m now going to spend 35 on a new Legacy. O.o So basically I depreciated from 30 to 10. If I had the 6 from the start I would be all good to keep riding this thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda_One Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Costs more to buy, more to operate, but money is irrelevant so buy an Audi! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Been there done that. What did you think the 3.6R replaced! Guess what? 1/2 the price less Insurance cost and I have a Big Smile on my face. Laughing at oneself and with others is good for the Soul![emoji2] Laughing at Oneself and with Other is good for the Soul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstater Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 meh, using your same exact logic, what are insurance costs, really, in the grand scheme of things? To sum up this thread, the 3.6R will either: Defy physics and get better MPG's than a 2.5 Legacy, 'cause the engine won't have to work so hard...obviously...Sure, it will cost you a bit more for gas, and to buy vs a 2.5, but what is money, after all?Sure, money is an object, but a 3.6R Legacy this is cheaper than an Audi, and cheaper to insure! When the personal viewpoints here get backed up by Fuelly data, I will believe you that Subaru has cracked the code, they made a car with a bigger, thirstier, engine, that costs more to buy, a better value...that somehow also gives better mpg's? PS: as a Subaru owner, I am aware that many Subaru owners also care about the environment and want to reduce their carbon footprint as much as possible. In my case, it probably means switching to the next gen mazda 3 when my lease is up...certainly I am not looking to buy a car that gets worse mpg's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meaux Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 What got my attention was the fact that the 3.6 uses Regular Gas... I was leaving a BMW 530i that used Premium Gas and got 21mpg... Thought about a Stinger, but it uses Premium... Audi never crossed my mind because they are not reliable... Do they use Regular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 That kind of reminds me of when I was younger buying one of my first cars. I got so "sucked into" the idea of massive fuel economy that I arguably purchased a car that was small (compact), and not quite as safe in terms of the safety ratings in comparison to some other vehicles that I specifically excluded solely for the difference in MPG. Live and learn, and try not to make the same mistakes twice. So, my point is, while fuel economy is important, it shouldn't be your be-all-end-all goal, and I was guilty of that. Again, I stand by my assessment that if the difference in fuel of $150 is make-or-break for anyone looking to purchase, it would probably be more prudent to pursue a certified pre-owned model coming off a lease rather than a new one. Don't forget also, the 2.0T engine in the Forester actually costs more to run in fuel despite the 3.6 having lower fuel economy because of the price of 91/93 octane. I think at highway speeds, where you're not really using the full "oomph" of your engine and you're at a constant speed, the mpg difference is probably minimal. You'll probably notice it a lot more in urban environments, stop and go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammcinnis Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I think at highway speeds, where you're not really using the full "oomph" of your engine and you're at a constant speed, the mpg difference is probably minimal. A Legacy cruising at 70 mph (level roadway, no wind) will require ~25 continuous hp, regardless of the engine installed. But the 3.6 engine will have higher friction losses (due to 6 vs. 4 cylinders) and higher pumping losses (due to higher displacement). The 3.6 can produce that 25 hp at lower rpm than the 2.5, which may mitigate the friction and pumping losses somewhat. "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." ~ The Cheshire Cat (Alice in Wonderland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Ah, science. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldguy Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Before I go further, I want to make it clear that I absolutely respect the choice of the 3.6i. If I had mountains to navigate, high speed freeways, etc., I would want one. But the costs aren't being factored in by some who say it's minimal. $150 a year is gas only. Stay with that if you just want to think the cost difference is minimal. In Canada, to get the 3.6 option I would have to spend about $4400 (all in CAD) more with taxes. Using 20% depreciation per year, at 10 years, I have about $600 residual value for the upgraded engine for a net $3800 in cost. There's also opportunity cost as I am a long term investor. If I gain even 4.5% per year on that , I have about a $2,000 gain over 10 years instead of the depreciation. (If I was a borrower, I would instead have interest costs.) So now the capital part of the equation runs close to $6000 over my 10 years. That's $600 per year plus the $150 for gas difference for a total of about $750 per year combined. Remember, I'm in Canada with a lower dollar and higher prices. I think the 3.6 is still a good choice for those who get that extra "smileage" (good one Pilot1226) from the feature. Life is not about money alone. But I like to be realistic about what the feature costs long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstater Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 A Legacy cruising at 70 mph (level roadway, no wind) will require ~25 continuous hp, regardless of the engine installed. But the 3.6 engine will have higher friction losses (due to 6 vs. 4 cylinders) and higher pumping losses (due to higher displacement). The 3.6 can produce that 25 hp at lower rpm than the 2.5, which may mitigate the friction and pumping losses somewhat. the 6 cylinder engine also weighs more... But to continue to theorize about why larger displacement engines don't actually use more gas than lower displacement engines (in our case, in the same car) it makes you wonder why Hyundai, Kia, Toyota and Honda aren't all switching back to V8 engines to reduce their overall carbon footprint and raise MPG across their fleets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda_One Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I am not sure why there is so most verbage to prove if a 2.5 is a better choice in engines because it called CHOICE. I own 2.5 Forester and 3.6 Legacy and I prefer driving the 3.6. CHOICE.. Now when someone state carbon footprint it does get my goat. My homestead has 2-100 year+ oaks, 8-200ft southern magnolias, hollies, shrubs, grass etc. Etc... so I way handle mine carbon footprint 10 fold. The 2.5 does a fine job 99% of the time but the 3.6 is a real pleasure to drive and never labored. For my type driving, open country hilly curvey roads the MPGs is a wash I average over 30 but again this is my cruiser and not my DD. Laughing at oneself and with others is good for the Soul![emoji2] Laughing at Oneself and with Other is good for the Soul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstater Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 sounds like somebody needs to feel the Subaru Environmental love: https://www.subaru.com/csr/environment.html#!/2016/05/25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 There's nothing wrong with caring for your environment. Conversely, it's an absurd assumption to suggest that 3.6'ers don't care about the environment. That line of thinking would put everyone in a 2.0 Impreza, otherwise you hate the Earth. I bring plastic bottles and metal cans home from work (including my coworkers' items) and recycle them at my house. I don't think anyone in this thread was saying that their 3.6 used less mpg than the 2.5, that would be a ridiculous assumption. My point in the previous post was that the 3.6 was cheaper to run than the 2.0T, assuming that was the other option. I agree with Rowlette... my 2.5 Outback is capable, but a 3.6 choice would be preferable. Today on the highway to avoid a potential situation I had to WOT, which I'm sure wasn't good for the carbon footprint. But I would rather that than be in an accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda_One Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 It is better to use a little gas to avoid an accident in my book. I just hoped you have Black seats.[emoji6] Laughing at oneself and with others is good for the Soul![emoji2] Laughing at Oneself and with Other is good for the Soul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldguy Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 There are situations when more power might keep you out of an accident. It's more likely that higher power will lead to more reckless behavior. Insurance stats indicate that higher horsepower across the general population leads to more speeding and accidents. http://www.iihs.org/iihs/sr/statusreport/article/51/5/2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 “With great power comes great responsibility?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
personatech Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 What got my attention was the fact that the 3.6 uses Regular Gas... I was leaving a BMW 530i that used Premium Gas and got 21mpg... Thought about a Stinger, but it uses Premium... Audi never crossed my mind because they are not reliable... Do they use Regular? Audi recommends Premium as well, as does VW. FWIW, here is CR's Brand Reliability rankings for 2017: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/ Note that Audi is ranked #4 behind Toyota, Lexus, and Kia (!), no change from 2016, and no real change over the last several years. Subaru climbed to #6 with BMW at #5. I'm not a fanboy by any means, nor do I own (or have ever owned) an Audi. I do know, however, that their poor reputation for reliability comes from long, long ago. The problem with Audi is that, for those few times that something does go wrong with one of their vehicles, you'll pay out the ying-yang to have it repaired. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Agree with that. Coworker of mine had the touchscreen fail on his A4 and it was someting like $5000 or more to get it replaced. The stigma I've heard from VW/Audi was that they're prone to electrical issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
personatech Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Yeah, I had a friend who's Audi TT glove compartment door broke - was going to cost him over $1K to repair (would have to replace the entire module). My experience with VW (window motor going bad, relays going bad) suggests that your observation is on point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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