Fender cold air or heat soak?

[xtea]

I'm making cold air intake to go onto a rotated set up and I might be getting a little obnoxious with heat management. Its my understanding that CAI's that drop into the fender, even if sealed with box like cobb or grimmspeed, still suck in engine heat because of the hole near the passenger side header. I'd like to get the best direct source of cold air I can without water locking the engine and since I am rotated I can't use the snorkus. Is it worth it to seal up that hole in the fender well and if so how would I get direct cold air into that spot.

 

Mods if this needs to go to the intake forum go ahead and move it, this place gets more eyes though so I started here.

 

Thanks!

[utc_pyro]

It's probably possible to seal the fender up and make it usable for this. I bought some AL sheet to make a baffle but haven't fitted it yet. After sealing it you'll want to introduce cool air though, ether through a duct going in front of the radiator (you can do this under the bumper cover) or removing the fog light.

[xtea]

How would I get ducting in from the bumper? The only gap I have down there is covered by the radiator without any room to fit any fabbed ducting without cutting something out.

 

At the moment I'm thinking of cutting a hole in my custom airbox and cutting up the snorkus and trying to mate them.

[xtea]

After some more research it looks like the snorkus sucks in air via the vacuum created by the turbo. With the hood over the snorkus, plus weather stripping, plus my bug deflector its probably not going to scoop anything up since my cai wouldn't be creating enough vacuum force to do anything meaningful. I can block the lower hole in the fender sitting next to the header, but then I don't have a path to get cold air in without removing the foglight which I am not interested in doing. The next option that doesn't involve cutting anything up would be to fab up a scoop and route it to the lower fender opening creating a minimal barrier directing air into the fender and separating it from the header. That is definitely more work then cutting existing stuff up, but it seems like the only real solution for me.

[utc_pyro]

How would I get ducting in from the bumper? The only gap I have down there is covered by the radiator without any room to fit any fabbed ducting without cutting something out.

 

 

There is room under the bumper cover to do this. Look at the sides where the bumper beam goes and there should be some decent sized gaps.

 

As with the snorkle, these wont get any sort of staic airflow without fan asist (belge blowers are cheap though). Once moving the area in front of the radiator is a high peressure zone, and should force air into whatever you fab up.

[madrig]

How would I get ducting in from the bumper? The only gap I have down there is covered by the radiator without any room to fit any fabbed ducting without cutting something out.

 

At the moment I'm thinking of cutting a hole in my custom airbox and cutting up the snorkus and trying to mate them.

 

 

when the resonator is removed you have room .it will be easy to duct from the fog light and pass under the headlight .

 

[xtea]

when the resonator is removed you have room .it will be easy to duct from the fog light and pass under the headlight .

 

[ATTACH]248673[/ATTACH]

 

I already ordered some foglight covers that I am going to modify to make this work. I wanted to keep my fog lights though. My radiator supports dont allow me to get anything from the bay to in front of the radiator vertically on either side. The next option is going in from the bottom but that requires me to make some scoop with a 90 degree bend and thats more work then making the foglight thing happen.

[Max Capacity]

You may want to think about one of there,

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=aem+cold+air+intake+water+bypass+valve&oq=AEM+cold+air+intake+wat&aqs=chrome.2.0j69i57j0l2.18646j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[xtea]

You may want to think about one of there,

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=aem+cold+air+intake+water+bypass+valve&oq=AEM+cold+air+intake+wat&aqs=chrome.2.0j69i57j0l2.18646j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

I don't want something mechanical attached to the intake pre turbo. My filter will hang out in a sealed box like cobb/grimmspeed sealed in the fender well but not deep in it. The foglight cover has a grill indentations that I will cut open and I will make exit holes for water in the fender liner tray. I figure that should be enough.

[Max Capacity]

I don't want something mechanical attached to the intake pre turbo. My filter will hang out in a sealed box like cobb/grimmspeed sealed in the fender well but not deep in it. The foglight cover has a grill indentations that I will cut open and I will make exit holes for water in the fender liner tray. I figure that should be enough.

 

Just saying,

 

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2837683

[xtea]

Just saying,

 

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2837683

 

From the thread's OP :"I got home and now the car runs fine and hits boost like a champ so it seems to have fixed itself."

 

 

Just sayin what?

 

Just kidding.

 

Lots of threads on nasioc about that valve being sucked open on our cars.

[Max Capacity]

From the thread's OP :"I got home and now the car runs fine and hits boost like a champ so it seems to have fixed itself."

 

 

Just sayin what?

 

Just kidding.

 

Lots of threads on nasioc about that valve being sucked open on our cars.

 

 

I do believe there were others in there that won't so lucky. My son learned that lesson the hard way. Put rod through a block.

[xtea]

Hmmmm.... I think I can create a system that allows air through but diverts big splashes away. If I keep the filter over the fender hole sealed in box, and put an s curve in the ducting, the curve plus gravity should do the trick. Whatever I set up I'll test with a garden hose sprayed directly at the opening.

[Rhitter]

Franz runs a dry-sock (forgot the exact name / brand) on his filter, says it works great.

[xtea]

So I did the mod and iats did not drop as quickly as I thought they would, though when it did drop it will stay about 5 degrees above ambient. It occurred to me that the air needs an efficent way to escape the fender well in order for the air to enter and make a meaningful difference.

 

I am thinking of creating a straight through hole by cutting the fender liner. This creates a concern about water hitting the intake. A dry sock is one idea but I've read there is a 3-5% efficiency loss of the intake according to one site. If I cut a hole in the fender liner facing the tire at fender tray floor level and sealed the gap by the header, I was thinking a 2 inch high by 6 inch wide duct about 6 inches long would create a path to allow air to pass through but deflect any splashes or spray in a path that it would not hit the filter.

 

Alternatively I was thinking of using sheet metal or even an old mud flap to create a curve in the fender well to direct air back into the engine bay towards the header. I would still get engine bay heat at a traffic light, but once moving it should route through the foglight cover and then escape towards the header. As it is now, the gap is about an inch or more and there is a right angle so air isn't exactly encouraged to move towards the engine bay, more likely it escapes into the fender.

[Max Capacity]

This is a nice engineering exercise, but with your rotated set up, on a street car, why don't you turn up the boost one more psi and have the HP you want.

 

If this was a race car I could see being worried about getting the IAT as close to ambient or lower by chilling the pipe or the fmic.

 

Just being a troll. Obviously I'm still following the thread so don't take me wrong.

[xtea]

No worries, this is an excercise in personal entertainment! I do appreciate your contributions in jest or otherwise!

[madrig]

if you wish to open the fender liner you can use the louver from a bmw , porsche, that have intercooler each side of front bumper , is just a square piece plastic with louver to exit the air from their intercooler , will be easy to install .

but i dont recomend it if you live in a winter country like me , as i saw a lot of it stuck with mud .if you live in socal is no problem to make hole everywhere !

[xtea]

So... I wasted a lot of time.

 

Here's what I found.

 

I made this neat little thing for one way air passageway via negative pressure created by the filter by creating a sealed chamber out hvac ducting just bigger then the filter with 6" flexible ducting going from the chamber to the fog light tunnel. My little chamber was too restrictive, it was maybe 2-3 inches all around bigger then the filter. with the cone part actually going just a little into the 6" ducting making the air have to go to the sides of the cone to reach the filter surface area. With the chamber/duct plus dry sock the iats were pretty much stuck at 4 above ambient. I discovered it was too restrictive because I was not boosting as high with out it. I could once hit 24.2 but more often stayed in the mid 23's

 

(side note. I am speed density tuned originally on a 2.5" intake and had stock mid pipe. Recently went to 3" all the way back and 3" intake. Same tune had peak boost going from 22.5 to 24.5)

 

 

I suspected the dry sock was causing the restriction but I wanted to see what it was like with just dry sock, no chamber, no air box (original set up was with custom air box) and without the chamber I consistently hit into the low 24's at wot. But had trouble hitting above 24.4. Here's the kicker iat's with just open exposed filter and dry sock went to about 3 degrees above ambient.

 

So then I did some runs without the dry sock. I consistently hit 24.5 and as high as 24.9. Iat's stayed at 3 above but would here and there drop down to 2 above for a moment.

 

I then put my original set up back on with airbox and found with conservative driving I was at best 2 above for longer stretches then with out the sock but mostly stayed in the 2-4 above ambient, mostly 3 though.

 

Fun exercise I guess. I think to do any better I would need vents to take advantage of unless I want to expose the filter to more elements.

 

I think what was most interesting is that my tmic (grimmspeed) heat soak affected IATs much more then any other factor. Ambient temps can only drop as fast as the intercooler can get cold. If its heat soaked it doesn't matter what I do. Once the intercooler was cold again iats did not fluctuate much unless I went into boost. Stopping at a light for 5 minutes would at most raise temps 2 degrees above movement temps. Stopping the car, shutting if off, and waiting 5 minutes raised my iats a lot, and its because of the heat soak of the intercooler. Once moving it would take 2-3 minutes for iats to drop down to their consistent levels.

 

At the end of the day I think i can live 3 above ambient.

 

http://i.imgur.com/tYicZ8Sr.jpg

[Max Capacity]

Glad you had fun playing with your car

 

I think GS did a good job with the tmic. You may have read where last Oct, one evening after a drive I shut the car off got out opened the hood, felt both ends of the tmic and was amazed how the cold side felt, cold like ambient which was about 58F.

[boxkita]

race car has a hole in the headlight with the filter in the opening.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=230187&stc=1&d=1463035301

[Max Capacity]

Air filter is overrated on a race car.

 

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/DSCF0410.jpg

 

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/DSCF0333.jpg

[xtea]

Air filter is overrated on a race car.

 

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/DSCF0410.jpg

 

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/DSCF0333.jpg

 

Your civic is sexy. Crx?

 

I often check the tmic after driving and am aware how good it is. My whole project was inspired by seeeeeyas sti project utilizing the rear fender vents. He was able to hit ambient utilizing a similar idea but instead converted the fender well into a sealed chamber using modified rear fender vents as exit path for the air. Since oem uses a negative pressure chamber to draw in air I thought I could get away with the same thing. I think my idea might of worked a little better with a short ram style filter ala perrin, . The surface area of my filter was perpendicular to the air path and im pretty sure thats why boost was limited. If I come accross a filter like that cheap I might try the project again. I did like how the chamber had a secondary effect of eliminating my turbo whistle completely and quieted the engine and exhaust a little.

[xtea]

One thing I did notice is that using the hvac chamber the car felt like it had more low end torque. Is that in my head? I read some info of a guy testing his stock box vs a cone filter and he reported similar with the cone giving more top end but the stock box giving better low end.

[Max Capacity]

Not a CRX, that's 1992 Civic Si. I bought the car new when my son was 5 or 6y/o he learned to drive in that car, then we did paint and body kit, then small turbo, then a little bigger turbo, then a little bigger turbo...

 

That's his Wally from winning the NHRA Sport Compact East Coast Nationals May 2007 at Atco NJ. At Indy in mid Aug he had a shot at a second Wally but red lighted in the finals.

 

Had a lot of fun with car, spend enough money on it to buy a house. We sold most everything in late 08 or early 09.