willisdaye Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 The upper radiator support tie bar, and both left and right lower radiator supports are bent after a front end collision. The radiator is now tilted inwards towards the engine, almost touching the serpentine belt assembly. I planned to replace this upper tie rod, but it appears to be welded on at the sides, so I want to try bending it back into shape. Does anyone have any advice? What tools would be helpful? I would take it to a shop, but it's likely going to be beyond my budget, plus I still have to fix the headlight compartments and the hood damage. Pictures: http://imgur.com/a/hOGuU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton96 Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 It's spot welded in place and all you need to do is drill out the welds to remove it. If you aren't going to remove it, then you'll need some sections of 2x4 and random wood, someone to help out and a bunch or different hammers and maybe even a bottle nose jack to try to beat the metal back into shape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choover1101 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Also if you are careful you can use a ratchet strap and put the car in reverse to help begin realigning the bracket. If you tend not to be the careful type I suggest a ratchet strap or cummalong to get the area into the basic shape then follow Brighton's advice to finish up. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willisdaye Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Is it welded both at the ends and at the lower supports? If it's not too hard to remove, replacing it sounds like the better choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton96 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Well the top brace, the one that the radiator attaches to is spot welded to the front facia of the car, this is the section of metal that the headlights and grill sit in front of. If just the top support was messed up then I'd say just drill it out to seperate it from the facia and get a junkyard one to replace it, but the front facia is also messed up on the passenger side, so I'm not sure how to remove it, I'd imagine the front crash bar has to get removed in order to swap that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 i have the same issue with one of my cars, i used a strap and a 3500 dodge 4X4 and yanked the sucker pretty much straight again. one piece of advice, when trying to pull it out, dont pull up as well. mine works pretty well, but with the lifted truck we used it actually pulled the rail higher up than it should be, and i have a gap at the hood to fender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 My SVX was the same way when I got the body panel apart to prep for paint. I always wondered why my headlight on the passenger side was always lower pointing than the driver's side, despite them lining up almost perfect. I used a chain and a tree and a few mild reverse cycles and I was able to straighten it up perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willisdaye Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 Thank you all for the advice, I'm gonna start as soon as it gets warmer out, I'll update then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willisdaye Posted April 8, 2017 Author Share Posted April 8, 2017 I got the ratchet ready today, and also did some work on removing broken headlight mounts. When I looked around for a place to attach the straps for the ratchet, I noticed that the bar is mostly bent upwards, and only slightly inwards. Also, the vertical black bar in front of the radiator must have absorbed some of the impact, and it bent the panel underneath the radiator as well. As a result, I think it mostly needs to be bent downwards, and I cant imagine how the ratchet would help, because now I need to also bend that panel, and if I just lowered the angle of the ratchet strap, it would probably just twist the whole bar instead of bringing it down. Does anyone have any suggestions? It's looking more difficult than I thought it would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 Upload some pics of the damage and I can help you as best as I can. I did extensive body work to my 99 Legacy that was hit on the driver side. Before: http://i.imgur.com/54wzWGT.jpg This one shows the extent of the damage to the driver's side. It was crushed so bad, the driver's side horn was nearly a pancake. http://i.imgur.com/XCiCfC5.jpg Frame bent at nearly a 45 degree angle. http://i.imgur.com/2i5XyN9.jpg After: http://i.imgur.com/iPZnE0B.jpg http://i.imgur.com/jsaj7Ra.jpg http://i.imgur.com/kBpjWxN.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LyOQyMu.jpg The car drove completely straight. I was able to correct the frame damage only about 95%. It was still bent about 5 degrees in, but from what it looked like to what it turned out, I made damn good progress with minimal tools. I used a tow chain, 5 ton come along, 5 lb sledgehammer, 20 lb sledgehammer, a crowbar, and a concrete reinforced fence post. I drove the car off and on for about a year until I bought another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willisdaye Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 Thanks! This is my first collision repair so I'll need all the help I can get! I have a few pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/hOGuU The biggest issue is that the bar is bent upwards, so I can't really use my ratchet to pull it. The angle is wrong. I could try using 2x4's and a sledge. I'm getting a new grille, hood, and headlight compartments, so it doesn't have to be perfect as long as it can safely hold the radiator, align the headlights correctly, and latch the hood. That's the other thing. junkyard hoods shouldn't be too expensive right? and getting it painted to match the car shouldn't be too bad either (I'm terrible at painting) Given that I bought the car from a friend for dirt cheap, it only has 100k miles, and is in very good condition otherwise, I'm fully invested in getting it back into shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton96 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 That's a really bizarre way the support is bent, I'd probably just get some decent sized mallets and start slowly beating it back downwards until it's level and THEN work on pulling it forward. Also a junkyard hood in my areas (of bountiful subarus) is $80-100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willisdaye Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 Yeah it hit a car with a much higher bumper, and the hood bent inwards, which pulled the bar upwards. One other thing, I should definitely remove the radiator before beating it up right? I'm gonna replace it anyway, but I feel like it should be out of the way. Also, would the work go faster if I had the car lifted up or otherwise set up so that the suspension doesn't take the force away from the hammer impacts? Edit: Should I be worried about the panel underneath the radiator? it's also bent upwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton96 Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Yes, remove as much as possible from the front of the car to reduce collateral damage. I don't know what your resources are, but if you are able to get the car higher up in the air and somehow manage to hook a come along/ratchet strap directly below it, you can get nice controlled movement, such as. For exacply if you had access to a 4 post lift (maybe sweet talk a garage owner into borrowing it for an hour after they close) put the car on it and put it in the air and then bolt the ratchet strap to the closest thing under the car. Also, get a hold of a propane torch, the hotter you get the metal while working on it, the smoother the metal will bend, instead of having lots of uneven spots. You're gonna have a lot of work ahead of you but having the lower one also bent isn't really surprising or that big of a deal in comparison to the other work you already have to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willisdaye Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 I have a friend who has a small shop in town, he'd probably help me out. Only thing is that the plate underneath the radiator is in the way of any kind of strap. I'll take a look at it, and see if there's any way I can remove it. If not, I'll have to get out the sledge. I do have a torch, I'll definitely give that a shot as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 use a piece of 2x4 against the beam, hit the wood with the sledge. put it on jack stands so the struts arent taking the force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Here is my "expert" analysis on the photos you sent. Put the front end on jack stands so you have a stable work space. http://i.imgur.com/D4dfhti.jpg 1.) Remove the radiator and condenser so you don't damage them and have the room to work 2.) Remove the front bumper so you have a better look at the whole front clip 3.) Start in the red area. Bend the support brace forward as much as you can to get it straight. I'm willing to bet it pulled the bottom of the radiator support, but I can't tell with the bumper on. Bending the vertical brace forward will bring the tension off of the lower rad support. 4.) Move to the areas circled in green and yellow. These need to be pulled forward. These cannot be crumpled at all. You're going to have make sure it's smooth. This is critical for proper headlight aiming and grille gap alignment. 5.) Measure the distance between the innermost headlight mounting bolts. Cut a good piece of 4x4 fence post that is about 4 inches shorter than the distance you measured. Lay it over the top of the radiator support and use your sledgehammer to make it flat. 6.) Check the vertical mount (red circled) to make sure it's not bending out of whack. If it is, you'll need about a foot length of 4x4 post to use to hammer out the lower radiator support to keep the vertical support from bending. Refer to the image below (pay no mind that it's a sedan, it's identical to the wagon front end): http://i.imgur.com/CLih9Pb.jpg The datum reference point is 0, on the cowl in front of the windshield. The points you need to measure are 1, 3, 8 & 25. They're symmetrical, so points 1, 3, & 8 apply to both the driver and passenger side. Point 0 to 25 needs to be 33.98" Point 8 to 8 needs to be 28.74" Point 0 to 3 needs to be 39.68" The upper and lower support need to be perfectly parallel to each other. I hope this helps. I should have been a body man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willisdaye Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 Wow, thank you! That's a pretty comprehensive course of action. I'll work on getting the radiator out today, and will update asap, probably with more questions. Also... how do I remove the bumper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choover1101 Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Beautiful explanation. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton96 Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 The bumper has about 8 push pin clips along the top edge that is normally hidden by the grill and headlights, you have to remove the lights and grill to get access to then all. Then there is 5 ish push clips on the top sruface of the lower "mouth". Then there are 4 push pins on each side that hold the plastic wheel well liner in place and THEN there is a hidden 10mm bolt on each side that is only accessible through the wheel well and is screwed up through the bumper and into the fender. Sorry if that was confusing, I can visualize it perfectly since I've removed mine a dozen times, but ask for clarification if you need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willisdaye Posted April 12, 2017 Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 Thanks everybody. I lifted the car, drained the fluids and disconnected the hoses to the radiator. No idea that it would have to drain for so long! One question, probably a stupid one: the radiator is kind of split into two parts, the one that's attached to the fans and hoses, and then one in front of it, that's connected to a small metal pipe on the passenger side. The larger one with fans pretty much moves freely, and is ready to be removed. The thinner one towards the front is set in place, either wedged by the bent bars, or fastened somehow. I know I have to remove it, but I'm not sure how. Also, I'm not sure if its supposed to be attached to the larger radiator. If it is, I'd assume i'll need a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton96 Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 The one with the metal pipes running to it is your condenser, that is part of the AC system is it looks like like a mini radiator located in front of the actual radiator. The condenser is only held in with 2 long 10mm bolts which are stuck through the front facia of the cars, through a rubber grommet and then into the condenser. Then once those are out, the condenser just lifts up and out of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willisdaye Posted April 12, 2017 Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 Thanks. Looks like the condenser got pretty beaten up, and will probably need replacing, but this might mean that I don't have to replace the radiator. I'll update tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Wow, thank you! That's a pretty comprehensive course of action. I speak from experience. When I bought my first Legacy, I spoke to a body man at a local shop that I had my Malibu repaired at when I hit a deer. He told me most manufacturers have a body shop reference manual for their cars that they use to measure a car when they put it back together. I searched high and low for said manual to no avail. When I went back to pickup my car, he gave me a link (which is dead now) to a site to look. Low and behold, I found a body manual where my screenshots came from. Ironically enough, the pages come directly from the Subaru FSM, but they're supplemental pages for section 5 of the FSM that no links I have found yet have included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Also... how do I remove the bumper? Make sure you remove the bumper support too from the frame. There are two bolts on each frame rail. You don't need to undo any clips from the cover, just remove the inner fender liners, the bumper supports on the inside of each fender, the 4 bolts for the support and it should slide right out. Easy peasy! Here are two more screen grabs from my body service manual http://i.imgur.com/BJj6k2R.jpg http://i.imgur.com/UL6Uk3v.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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