Stevo F Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I hope to go check out a '98 GT this Saturday, as our youngest will be learning to drive soon. Our middle son has our '98 "L" wagon and the EJ22 is running great, 35K miles after we got it at 89K miles. This car has only 94K miles, headgaskets and timing belt were done several thousand miles ago. They said the heads were checked out by a machine shop at that time. Also new tires, new brakes, new rear struts. The owner told me it just started to go above normal temp once and they stopped driving it to do the headgaskets, so it doesn't sound like a major overheating event occurred. Body seems clean- one small spot on the quarter and a scrape on the quarter panel The owners have only put 5K miles on the 1 1/2 years they had it, but have owned a number of Subarus and seems familiar with them (unlike some other sellers I've talks to including one who though the FWD light on the dash meant it was in four wheel drive). They asking $3,300. Any other good questions to ask between now and Saturday? I love these cars because of their simplicity and reliability, but am a little skittish about the EJ25D (especially after that Outback we test drove last year overheating after our test drive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesA Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Do you know which headgaskets were used? If they used the old Subaru design then they very likely will fail again in 80K miles or so. If they used the better multi-layer steel headgaskets (MLS) then they should last. The main concern with headgasket failure is overheating, head warping and coolant bleeding into the oil which never ends well. 2.5 is OK except for this PITA issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Hi, Since the owner sounds 'Subie-smart', that's in your favor. Receipts for all work done? Was the work done by a Subie Mech/Tech - and not the local 'import car place'? I'd do a THOROUGH test drive - hills, stop and go, etc. to ensure that temp needle stays just below half-way. New tires could mean alignment issues - make sure all 4 are the same brand/model, e.g. Michelin Defender. '98 was after the main issue w/Torque Bind <'97, but assuming it's an Automatic, find a parking lot and do figure 8's and check for binding. If rust IS an issue in your area of the US, I'd suggest getting it up on a lift to verify the exhaust and Cats are in good shape. It's a used car so expect to spend some $$ after the sale, but whatever you find can help w/negotiating b4 you spend your $$. $3500 seems high for your area, but maybe the low miles demands it? GL, Td Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 $3,300 is a little excessive for the year even with the mileage. Nowadays, mileage means nothing compared to the overall condition. I've seen cars with 100k miles and years of neglect that render them a safety hazard and then I've seen cars with 200k+ miles that have been impeccably maintained. Point in case is my girlfriend's old 05 Hyundai Santa Fe. It had 186k miles but was completely maintained and had very minor issues. Similar ones with the same or less mileage were going for $5-600 less than we were asking ($2800) but were complete buckets. We sold it for $2700 and were completely up front and honest with the buyer and even let them take it in for an inspection by their own mechanic to verify it. Any reputable seller will allow you to take it to a mechanic for inspection. If they have receipts to backup the head gasket work and timing belt, contact the shop who did they work. Many shops will tell you within a few minutes what they did and what parts were used. Make sure the shop is knowledgeable on the older Subaru engines. How many have they done in the last 6-12 months? If it wasn't done with a MLS gasket, plan to have that expense within the next 2,000-60,000 miles and negotiate around it if you're okay with having to do a head gasket soon. The first time around, I didn't use a MLS gasket, it lasted 1,500 miles. Lesson learned, now I'm doing it with an MLS gasket. If they don't have documentation, never assume it was done, especially with the EJ25D. The 25D is a volatile motor and if the timing belt wasn't done and goes, it could spell bad news for the valves and pistons. If the car is an automatic, take wtdash's advice and do a couple of figure 8's in an empty parking lot. It should be smooth in the turns and not jump around. If it's a manual, do a stall test on the clutch. Without touching the gas, see how far the RPM's drop in relation the clutch pedal movement. If the car wants to stall with little engagement, the clutch system should be good. Smell the exhaust pipe before and after the test drive. Look for water pooling in the tail pipe. At operating temperature, there shouldn't be any water in the pipe. If there is, taste it. If it tastes bitter, there is coolant in the exhaust. This is also a test I like to do. If the engine is cool, remove the radiator cap and start it. If the coolant shoots out when it fires up, it could signal a head gasket issue. Also, with the car at operating temperature, remove the overflow cap and rev the engine a few times while looking in the tank. If it is bubbling, you might be looking at a head gasket issue. With the car warm, stick you head under the dash with everything off and the car running and hit the gas. If you hear gurgling coming from the heater core, that is also a sign of air in the system. With a head gasket failing, it'll get much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wish Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 that price is high. check the book value. I got my 96 outback(much higher mileage) with new brakes, tires, valve cover gaskets, timing belt, and tune up for $1,600 and book value was actually $1,500 but I was happy paying an extra $100 since it had all that work done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wish Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 oh I also bought my 97 LGT with a swapped motor and other work done to it for $3k like 6 years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton96 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I don't know I think they have it at $3300 in the hope to get talked down to $3k ish. If I were to sell mine I'd start around $3500 even though it's a brighton, I have like $6k in it which includes the rebuilt trans, motor and diffs. So I'd bring a check/cash for $3k or so and don't go more than that. I'm sure KBB on it is only $2500 or so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo F Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 Thank you all. She made the point of saying the price is negotiable, so I'm thinking they're asking $3,300 in the hopes of getting $3,000, which is the most I would likely offer. I will definitely ask about what headgaskets were used (she said her father did the headgaskets) and try to see any receipts (she said idlers and tensioner were done with the timing belt). I'd like to run a Carfax to get a feel for if 94K is the correct mileage (since the odo's on these cars look easy to turn back). I noticed the price of 5 Carfax's has doubled in price to $100... ugghhh... Can anyone recommend a cheaper service I can get a mileage and accident check though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo F Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 The seller told me they used Fel Pro MLS head gaskets- good, bad? I definitely don't want to have headgaskets done again if I can help it. Avoided it so far on our two older Subies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton96 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 You CAN turn the odometer back but its really difficult, the dials are really fragile and they don't like to turn the other direction. So I wouldn't suspect they messed with the mileage. The only reason I know is because my speedometer/odometer died and I wanted to tinker with it before I replaced it. I ended up getting a used one with 10k less mileage on it, so I just documented it and kept the old one. And Fel-Pro are pretty good, you shouldn't have any problems with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I got my Legacy L BK 13 years ago with 167k for $3000. I just rolled 272k on the way to work today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Thank you all. She made the point of saying the price is negotiable, so I'm thinking they're asking $3,300 in the hopes of getting $3,000, which is the most I would likely offer. I will definitely ask about what headgaskets were used (she said her father did the headgaskets) and try to see any receipts (she said idlers and tensioner were done with the timing belt). I'd like to run a Carfax to get a feel for if 94K is the correct mileage (since the odo's on these cars look easy to turn back). I noticed the price of 5 Carfax's has doubled in price to $100... ugghhh... Can anyone recommend a cheaper service I can get a mileage and accident check though? If you send me the VIN I get unlimited carfax reports and can send you a copy of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 You CAN turn the odometer back but its really difficult, the dials are really fragile and they don't like to turn the other direction. So I wouldn't suspect they messed with the mileage. The only reason I know is because my speedometer/odometer died and I wanted to tinker with it before I replaced it. I rebuilt the speedometer for my rally car and reset the ODO to all zeros with relative ease and finesse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo F Posted February 11, 2017 Author Share Posted February 11, 2017 I just saw the Carfax (thank you Setnev!) and the mileage is legit. 3 owners, no reported accident, so it looks clean. Going to see it tomorrow morning and if no major issues hopefully will make an offer and get our 2nd 2nd Gen in the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo F Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 So we went this morning to look at the car. Very clean except for the dent on the quarter panel and a few scrapes on the bumpers. No real rust to speak of. I started it up and immediately it threw a CEL. Since the seller is a mechanic I asked if he had a scanner. He said it's a knock sensor and that's the code he pulled, so no big deal. The engine ran smooth and quiet and everything was clean under the hood. Took it for a spin. Good power, not many noise (a bit of creak from the front, seller thinks it may be the struts, but no sure, but its not very noticeable. Car drove nicely at all speeds, transmission shifted smoothly. Temp gauge stayed just under halfway and no bubbles in the overflow so new headgaskets are good. They were asking $3,300. I offered $2,800, and he balked a bit, so ended up at $2,900 and he threw in a roof rack that used to be on an SUS he used to own. Drove it home and it drove well. I drove it up on the ramps and had a look underneath. A bit of oil on the crossmember (separator plate maybe?), but our '98 wagon is about the same. The oonly thing that needs replacing are both steering boots. The seller replaced the passengers side axle recently, and the drivers side looked OEM (Blue paint) but was likely rebooted at some point, as all 4 CV boots were still supple. Also a tad of residue at the rear of the transmission pan, so maybe a new gasket is needed. Car was very clean and little rust on anything (It lived in Maryland and Virginia all its life). So I washed it, vacuumed the interior (leather is in good shaped), and took apart the dink holder and degunked it so it opens and closes as it should. So I love this car. Almost two nice to give to one of our sons (our 20 year who has the green '98 wagon wants to trade it with his younger brother). I just love this car and would consider dailying it (actually I currently have a twice week 115 mile roundtrip through some rough DC area traffic). My 2014 Impreza is a nice car, but I do like the older cars if they are reliable. So, in short I'm glad I went with a private seller as I paid a lot more our other 2 Subies and they both needed timing belts and tires which this one doesn't. Actually the guy told me he had to replace one tire, but there was only about 2,000 miles on the set and he replaced it with the identical tire, so I can't even tell which one it was. Very happy with this car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton96 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Congrats, it sounds pretty sterile and would be a great daily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 A bit of oil on the crossmember (separator plate maybe?), but our '98 wagon is about the same. Check the valve cover gaskets. There is 3 different designs for the gasket. If you check one of my rant threads I made about Rock Auto and the great valve cover gasket fiasco, you'll see what I mean. Mine was a close gasket, but it weeped oil that trailed to the back of the cover and would drip on the front lip of the crossmember. I thought it was the separator plate at first because that was the only gasket that I didn't replace when I had my engine out, but upon further inspection with the car running and my head under the car, I found out it was the valve covers. The other thing is that if the bellows are ripped on the steering rack, you might have a leak there too. My underside was coated in ATF. Thinking it was the trans seal leaking, I cleaned it all up and found it was coming from the rack and pinon. I ordered the rebuild kit and 2 bellows off of Rock Auto for it for about $30 shipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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