Official Firearm Thread V3

[rodan]

My recommendation in a semi-auto would be for something that doesn't drastically change it's trigger pull from the 1st to 2nd shot...

[Dishwasher]

That’s precisely why I like it for a few different reasons.

 

The Beretta places a number of roadblocks to discharging it, including a more difficult initial pull in double action, and a safety.

 

I also liked the way it felt in my hand and how it shot. It’s obviously got a pretty proven track record, and the sky is pretty much the limit in terms of learning how to be proficient on it, and modifiability if I ever decide to go down that route.

 

Learning curve doesn’t scare me as much as I thought it would. You’re not wrong, but I’m willing to invest the time and training into becoming proficient.

[Penguin]

Personally I would only consider a 92G (de-cock only) with the D spring if I had to do a factory 92.

 

https://www.langdontactical.com/92-elite-ltt-centurion/

Edited April 26, 2020 by Penguin

[Dishwasher]

Beretta sells a conversion for $55 (also on Langdon’s site) It’s on my short list if I don’t like the safety. I’ve read many people prefer the G as well.

 

Langdon also sells the trigger upgrade “in a bag” which I can get for cheaper then what I’d pay for a complete Langon Tactical gun. I’m sure it’s awesome, and that’s also on my short list in the future once I have enough experience to appreciate the difference.

 

The price I’m paying for the 92x Centurion is 580 new with my $20 bass pro giftcard woot. So that plus the trigger job costing 165 is still a better deal unless I’m missing something.

Edited April 26, 2020 by Dishwasher

[THE RZA]

Sounds like you're almost all but sold on the Berretta and that's fine, just maybe I can convince you to buy a sig

 

When I shoot my P226 and P229, I almost never shoot with the double action. I like to tinker with my guns, but I haven't done any upgrades to either pistol. Both came with the factory upgraded Night Sights, I considered getting fiber optic sights for both but it's not a "must" for me.

 

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/862692170

 

I shoot rifles a lot more than pistols, that inclines me to make upgrades to the rifles. For how little I shoot pistol I'm very happy with how the 226 and 229 work and that sounds like what you want, something that works when you want to shoot it.

[chowser51]

The G kit is easy to install. Just make sure you have a large ziploc bag to work in. My kits came with extra pins and springs. I guess Beretta knew we were going to lose some. Lol

[Dishwasher]

Sounds like you're almost all but sold on the Berretta and that's fine, just maybe I can convince you to buy a sig

 

When I shoot my P226 and P229, I almost never shoot with the double action. I like to tinker with my guns, but I haven't done any upgrades to either pistol. Both came with the factory upgraded Night Sights, I considered getting fiber optic sights for both but it's not a "must" for me.

 

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/862692170

 

I shoot rifles a lot more than pistols, that inclines me to make upgrades to the rifles. For how little I shoot pistol I'm very happy with how the 226 and 229 work and that sounds like what you want, something that works when you want to shoot it.

 

The 226 on paper looks perfect, and I'm sure it's great, but I can't really justify the $300 premium over the 92x when the guns are so similar. I bet I'd love it though.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Dishwasher

[rodan]

Please do yourself a favor and at least shoot a Glock 17 and S&W M&P before you make your decision.

[rodan]

On another note, my dealer was out at the range with me last week, so I got a conjugal visit with my Rugged Obsidian 9, which is still in NFA jail...

 

No pics, but it was impressively quiet on my M&P with 147gr ammo. On my AR9 it was quite a bit louder, which I wasn't expecting. I think is due to the straight blowback action. I'll do some experimenting with springs and buffers once the ATF gets off their duffs and approves my Form 4.

[Dishwasher]

Please do yourself a favor and at least shoot a Glock 17 and S&W M&P before you make your decision.

 

I'll run up there tonight and give them a try.

[Infosecdad]

If they happen to have a CZ P-01 or similar, would highly recommend trying it out.

CZs naturally point for me better than anything else I've tried.

[THE RZA]

The 226 on paper looks perfect, and I'm sure it's great, but I can't really justify the $300 premium over the 92x when the guns are so similar. I bet I'd love it though.

 

Shoot one and you'll understand the price

 

Think of it in this sense, you pay $300 less for the Beretta, later down the road you pay a gunsmith to install a new trigger. Parts & labor will be another $165, you upgrade the sights, another $200..You've now put another $365 into the gun you already paid $600 for.

 

One of my friends did this 2 years ago, I got my P229 with night sights for $900, he bought a CZ-75 for $700, paid another $800 for Cajun Gunworks to install a better trigger, sights, grips and cerakote. We shot each other's and he loved my P229, he couldn't believe it was a stock pistol. His custom CZ was nice but I'm not a big pistol guy, it didn't feel any different. He was slightly embarrassed for bashing Sig for all this time without shooting one and realizing it was everything he needed.

 

You can find P226's and P229's for $700-800 if you look hard enough, they're essentially the same gun but the 229 is a "compact" version of the 226.

 

There is nothing wrong with a Beretta, but the 92X vs. a P229 is like driving a v6 Mustang vs. a Cobra without a major difference in price

[BDII]

the P229 is the swiss army knife of guns. It’s everything you need and nothing you don’t.

 

It’s the only gun I’ll every recommend that everyone should own.

[Dishwasher]

The range has a 226 to rent, a VP9, and a Glock 17 and 19. I'll test those before making any decision.

 

It doesn't have a 229 to try, but I believe the 226 and 229 are very closely related.

 

I have ordered some foam earplugs, and a Maglula speed loader.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Dishwasher

[BDII]

Skip the speed loader unless you’re old

 

Get these

 

https://www.cabelas.com/product/IMPACT-SPORT-ELECTRONIC-EARMUFF/2225038.uts?productVariantId=1398781&WT.tsrc=PPC&WT.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=02415465&rid=20&ds_rl=1246555&ds_rl=1246558&ds_rl=1252245&ds_rl=1252079&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIp42Eir2J6QIV1AiICR1EBQz5EAQYASABEgLEcfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Dishwasher]

My hands are trash so I'm going to get the loader as less time/energy spent on loading magazines means more time/energy doing shooty shooty.

 

I ordered those earmuffs though (cheaper on amazon), thanks for the recommendation.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Dishwasher

[Norm Peterson]

While you're loading a couple of magazines, the gun gets to cool off a bit.

 

You're probably not as apt to suddenly realize this when shooting pistol as opposed to, say, a semiautomatic centerfire rifle, but it's happening.

 

 

Norm

[THE RZA]

The range has a 226 to rent, a VP9, and a Glock 17 and 19. I'll test those before making any decision.

 

It doesn't have a 229 to try, but I believe the 226 and 229 are very closely related.

 

I have ordered some foam earplugs, and a Maglula speed loader.

 

 

Correct, the 229 has a smaller barrel and grip than the 226. 2 years ago BD turned me to the 229 when I was looking at the P320 X-carry, don’t regret it. You can conceal carry the 229 too, probably not the most comfortable conceal carry but you can.

 

Since I got mine I rarely shoot the 226, the 229 is just perfect.

[THE RZA]

the P229 is the swiss army knife of guns. It’s everything you need and nothing you don’t.

 

It’s the only gun I’ll every recommend that everyone should own.

 

 

Mine worked great til some asshole put a P320 mag in mine

[THE RZA]

My hands are trash so I'm going to get the loader as less time/energy spent on loading magazines means more time/energy doing shooty shooty.

 

I ordered those earmuffs though (cheaper on amazon), thanks for the recommendation.

 

 

Which ever handgun you do buy, I recommend loading all the mags up and let them sit for a few days. The spring tension on new mags can be a pain in the ass and rips up your thumbs. Load them up, let them sit for a day, unload them and repeat a few times. Mags will break in nicely.

[Penguin]

So Dishwasher is looking for a DA/SA gun to start, and I understand his reasoning due to his experience level. However, given his experience level I am going to point out to him that he is operating in an environment where he’s making $$$ decisions without sufficient information or existing knowledge and experience. Not trying to disparage him, we all started the firearms ownership and use game at a low level of skill and experience. We gain proficiency through practice and serious effort to improve if that is the goal. Along that road you also learn a lot about the equipment and what works and doesn’t work.

 

I will speak to some generalities here, and dive into a few specifics of various makes and models I have some experience with. I’m also going to point out another area that is maybe being overlooked.

 

To begin with Dishwasher needs to understand some generally true things about firearms, firearms accessories, optics, and support gear. If he pays attention he can avoid some pitfalls, enjoy his new hobby, and save some $$$ in the long run.

 

General truths about guns and associated equipment:

 

1.) You get what you pay for. Cheap guns are usually crap. Fortunately you seem to be interested in quality pistols or revolvers from reputable manufacturers. You still need to understand a few things. Even these makers have different levels of attention to detail, options, etc on the guns.

 

Take that Beretta 92x Centurion you’re looking at for example. In order to meet a price point Beretta is using less expensive materials in construction than say a Wilson Combat spec or Langdon Tactical spec Beretta 92. The base gun has a plastic trigger shoe, and plastic de-cock levers, this makes it cheaper. Unfortunately the plastic trigger shoe has proven to be less than optimal for a really nice trigger pull. The base gun will use a non match barrel, where the pricier guns will have match grade barrels. It will also be assembled from parts with no fitting involved, whereas the fancy pants guns can be had with action work done to them.

 

So you think you can upgrade later, but here’s the rub you’re talking about shipping a handgun out for work. That means overnight air shipping by law, unless you have an FFL willing to ship guns for you. So add $100 to your cost to get trigger work or machine work done if you need it. Plus the cost of the work will be higher.

 

Simple truth is that for most gun stuff it’s cheaper and easier to buy once, do it right, and cry once. My advice is to obtain the nicest model of whatever pistol or revolver you’re looking at if you can, particularly if the options are for trigger work, fitted match barrels, or optics cuts. You’re going to save money in the long run, and have an easier to shoot firearm that you will grow into. Plus a lot of times the fancy model comes with more stuff like extra magazines, cases, and other swag that can significantly close the cost/value gap when you figure in needing to acquire some of that stuff anyway.

 

2.) The other point to be made is selecting a pistol or revolver that gives you room to grow as a shooter and as a tool that you might need to use for other purposes. No one has touched on this yet in depth.

 

You might have noticed I mentioned optic cuts as something worth getting if you can, we can file this under ability to upgrade capabilities. I will not buy a pistol or revolver that can’t accept an optical sight anymore. Going forward if it’s not capable of being machined or pre machined it need not apply. Unfortunately right now the slide of a Beretta 92 is a big no go zone for a slide mounted optic. Something like a SIG, HK, Glock, etc can either be had machined and ready to go, or has enough space up top to be milled. For example my VP9 long slide is milled for an Aimpoint ACRO P-1. A red dot sight is one hell of a tool for increasing your potential as a shooter once you put in the work of learning to present the gun in such a way you acquire the dot in the window. Combined with that upgraded trigger I am harping on you to buy up front it makes learning to shoot way way easier. Make sure you can mount a light. You might need this to work as a defense tool, and a light is very handy here as is an optic.

 

One other additional point of upgrade ability is to not pick some wonky gun that takes unobtainable magazines, weird holsters or other stupid shit. At least not for a first gun.

 

And for ****’s sake never never ever buy cheap off brand magazines. Magazines are the number 1 cause of malfunctions in semi-auto firearms. DO NOT BUY CHEAP SHITTY OFF BRAND MAGAZINES.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Penguin

[THE RZA]

Good news with your last tid bit is unless you’re buying a Glock, most handguns you can only buy OEM mags. Sig’s case you can buy Meg-gar mags for $10 less than the Sig Sauer marked Meg-gar mags.

 

Moral of the story: Buy a Sig Sauer P229. It’s the first and only pistol you’ll ever need to buy.

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by THE RZA

[Penguin]

OEM magazines or Mec-Gar are the only acceptable answers for most pistols.

 

Mec-Gar is actually the OEM for quite a few name brands so buy either with confidence. SIG, and Beretta both contract out to Mec-Gar for their mags. I believe Walther does as well. Probably a few others.

 

HK makes their own magazines to their obsessive level of reliability sometimes at the expense of capacity.

 

Glock makes their own magazines and MagPul also makes Glock magazines. The Glock made magazines are better.

 

Should you venture into the crazy world of 2011’s you have the choice of STI made magazines, which used to be crap that immediately needed to be worked on, to now being good to go. You also have MBX magazines for 2011’s that are crazy expensive but generally very good. STI has made a serious effort to make their guns way way more reliable and duty grade over the past 5 years or so. They’ve even captured a few LE contracts I believe.

[THE RZA]

There’s a lot of companies that make glock mags, most of them are shit.

[m sprank]

I have never been in the military, have never participated in any shooting competitions and have limited formal training.

 

 

 

But I do LOVE things that go boom and have a knack for taking things apart, modifying them and putting them back together again in a never ending attempt to find perfection.

 

 

 

I own three Sig 229's. One 9mm (American Made), one 40cal (German Made) and one 357sig (German Made). All are completely stock. All work just fine. I am sure they can be improved upon, but I wont be able to shoot them any better.

 

 

 

+10 quadrillion on the magazine statements.