Official Firearm Thread V3

[THE RZA]

My pistol has never failed (nor has either of my rifles) and I do not have a suppressor. I even use sub-sonic suppressor rounds. Thousands of rounds through them. I spent untold hours researching and then testing prior to building all 3. Gas port sizes, gas tube lengths, buffer springs, buffer weights, barrel lengths, bolt carriers, etc. I have 4 choices in AR pistol (different calibers) if I want to mix it up.

 

 

 

I have never used a suppressor. Honestly my thought is that they extend the barrel to a length that makes it less usable in closed quarters. My hearing is damaged enough that I might not even notice the decrease in volume much. Some day I will pay the $200 for a stamp and probably pick one up to try, along with registering a few short barrel rifles so they dont have to be pistols anymore. But it is low on my list of priorities right now.

 

Why are you shooting subsonic rounds without a can? That's literally a waste of money :lol: You can run a 300blk pistol with a 8" or shorter barrel and get great ballistics, with a can mounted that comes out to 14-15"

 

Put in for a stamp now, it's gonna take a year anyways to clear. ATF isn't approving any NFA items at the moment. Wait for the right time to form 1 your pistols, they will come back fast through E-File if you do it at the right time. prior to this COVID BS e-file's were coming back in less than a month.

 

If you're shooting a 300blk pistol with subs and unsuppressed you might as well build yourself a 9mm PCC pistol because 300blk is meant to be shot suppressed.

[m sprank]

I know the round was designed to be shot suppressed. I built all of mine in Cali, where suppressors are highly illegal. At the time we had no plans to relocate out of state.

 

 

 

I built them to be able to use both sub and super sonic ammo. I use the sub sonic ammo to decrease penetration for home defense use. I figured it was safer than my 14.5" 308, lol.

 

 

 

With the relocation, priorities and funding have dramatically changed. I have no intention of making any new purchases in the foreseeable future, or assembling any new toys. I am actively advertising to liquidate much of my collection to raise cash. Hence the recent sale of the 590 and the 229 Elite. I will not be applying for any tax stamps at this time.

 

 

 

Life throws curves. I am just along for the ride. If things change, I will be back in the market.

 

 

But... I have an active project in Philly, NYC and Boston. Maybe once all this Corona Crap is over we can actually meet in person again (been since 2009?). I am recovered and can handle another Rutts Hutt meet.

[THE RZA]

for sure. for an old man like yourself Rutt's Hut once a decade is good for you

 

I have property in Pennsylvania which is where I hold my residency just to own NFA items and keep all my guns that I don't want neutered in New Jersey, I do occasionally vacation here too because it's on a lake

 

The bad news is a local landfill is buying all of the property around me and gave me a very lucrative offer on my property where I'm actually making a 50% profit on it. This won't be happening anytime soon because of COVID but I expect it to happen mid-summer. I'm looking for new properties now and I'm looking in other states too, particularly Southern Maine/New Hampshire Seacoast. With how my work schedule is now I can be up there for almost a full 2 weeks a month and I can have all the fun stuff I want in Maine & NH.

 

If you really want to go the cheap route for a suppressor, buy a Solvent Trap kit and file a form 1 and you got yourself a suppressor for under $500, all you need to do is drill out hole on the end cap, hell the company who makes them sells accessories so you don't have to do it. It's basically a build your own suppressor kit they just can't legally advertise it, to be used as a cleaning tool is a joke

Edited April 9, 2020 by THE RZA

[m sprank]

I am getting old, definitely not getting younger. I was still in my thirties when I last lived on the east coast. Took until 45 to get back. Now 46 is just around the corner. i used to have an iron gut, not anymore. But I can take Rutts Hutt, just not every day anymore.

 

 

 

I have seen the "oil filter" and "solvent can" ones. I actually bumped into an LEO at the parts counter in Cali when he was asking about the adapter required and the counter guy was clueless to what he was asking for. I had to assist, LOL.

[rodan]

Ran across this today:

 

https://americansuppressorassociation.com/hr-6126-legislation-introduced-to-ensure-90-day-suppressor-transfers/

 

Bill proposing a 90 day limit for the ATF to process NFA apps for suppressors. I'd rather see it apply to all NFA applications, but it's a start...

 

If you like it, contact your reps.

[THE RZA]

It’s a good start, but it will be a do nothing law. ATF will lie and make up excuses.

 

How about repealing the NFA all together and honoring the constitution as written?

[rodan]

I would love to see the NFA go away, but that's pretty unlikely. So is this, but it's something. I think the idea is to make the approval automatic at 90 days so the ATF can't pull any BS...

 

I haven't had time to look up the actual text yet, I'd like to read it and see specifically what it says.

[amusa]

I'm eyeing on the Beretta's 92X Performance. My friend is going to purchase a S&W 12412 M&P 9 M2.0.

[Dishwasher]

First time gun buyer here.

 

I'm eying a Walther PPQ .22lr as a first gun to learn gun fundamentals, also taking some courses at our local range on handguns. Should I be looking at any other .22s or anything else?

 

I live in MO so there aren't any gun laws here. Any recommendations on gun boxes? I have a kid so I don't want him getting into it.

[THE RZA]

learn on a 9mm model. 22lr is a fun plinking round but fundamentals learned at least in my opinion won't transfer to bigger calibers. Get yourself a 9mm, they're fairly easy to learn and you'll at least have something for self defense.

 

Gun boxes? Vaultek if you want something state of the art

 

https://vaulteksafe.com/products/vaultek-view-all-vt-series/

 

Harbor Freight if you don't want to spend a lot

 

https://www.harborfreight.com/037-cubic-ft-electronic-digital-safe-62979.html

 

I have both but for different uses, the $35 Harbor Freight one is in my night stand and Vaultek is my travel box.

Edited April 22, 2020 by THE RZA

[Dishwasher]

I was thinking about a 9mm initially, but realized I probably am only going to use it at a range, and home defense isn't a huge concern of mine.

 

The classes I'm doing they provide the guns, which I believe are 9mm. I might rent some 9mms too and see if I should skip the .22 I guess. They have VP9s, Springfield XD9, Rugers and Glocks. Thanks for the info on boxes

Edited April 22, 2020 by Dishwasher

[THE RZA]

what has you wanting a .22lr ? is it the price of the gun and ammo vs. the costs for a center fire cartridge? (centerfire is most guns)

[Dishwasher]

Learning gun handling and fundamentals is my primary goal. After learning fundamentals it will probably only get used at the range. So my thinking was that a .22 would be a good way to do that. The size of the hole in the paper doesn't matter much to me, nor does home defense. I'm not opposed to a 9mm, and the cost of one isn't prohibitive either, just from the research I've done it seems like it's easiest to learn on a .22.

[THE RZA]

operations won't vary much between a 22lr and a 9mm, but the recoil and velocity are much different. A pellet gun has more velocity than a 22lr, ok that's an exaggeration but it's not far off, 22lr is one of the least lethal rounds you can get.

 

You just don't want to own something and after a short time get buyers remorse and wish you bought a 9mm, .40 S&W , .45ACP etc.

 

If you're gonna own 1 pistol and 1 pistol only, I'd go with 9mm. Ammo's affordable and very versatile.

[Dishwasher]

Might just go with a full size PPQ 9mm then. They're on sale at Bass Pro.

[Flinkly]

I've got a PPQ 9mm as my first handgun. Only used it at the range, but do have it available for home defense (makes me feel better) in a small liberty safe, hd-100 (got from cabellas). Have a large liberty for all the others.

 

I'd also suggest a 9mm. 22 rifle isn't a bad idea if you live in the country or want to take it out plinking while camping/hunting/etc, but for a handgun go 9mm.

[rodan]

Everyone should own a .22. It's a good way to learn the fundamentals, and ammo is cheap.

 

It will also give you a better perspective on what you might actually want in a service caliber gun down the road as opposed to buying blind with no experience.

 

Nothing wrong with a 9mm as a first gun, but nothing wrong with a .22 either.

[Dishwasher]

Kind of like the 300cc vs. 600cc debate in motorcycles.

[ehsnils]

Before getting a gun safe/box, make sure that they don't have any serious security flaws.

 

 

Here's some to watch:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lockpickinglawyer+gun+box

[Penguin]

First time gun buyer here.

 

I'm eying a Walther PPQ .22lr as a first gun to learn gun fundamentals, also taking some courses at our local range on handguns. Should I be looking at any other .22s or anything else?

 

I live in MO so there aren't any gun laws here. Any recommendations on gun boxes? I have a kid so I don't want him getting into it.

 

I would avoid any of the Umarex made .22LR’s such as the Walter, SIG Mosquito etc. They are poorly made and usually don’t work right, being very finicky about ammo.

 

I’m going to strongly disagree with RZA on the validity of a .22LR pistol or revolver of good quality. He means well, but most pistol shooters never develop solid fundamentals and hence never appreciate the .22LR as a training implement. Fundamentals are trigger control, and sight alignment for the most part with a pistol. Recoil control can be developed as you go, and as your ability to actually run the trigger at speed and track your sights develops. You can accomplish that on anything that doesn’t attempt to lodge itself in your face every time you fire it. Especially a .22LR. At one point I shot .22LR target pistols to a high level of competency, making Collegiate Nationals in 2003 as part of the Southwest Missouri State pistol team. We ended up 8th in the nation for whatever it’s worth.

 

It all boils down to your ability to press the trigger without disturbing your sight alignment, or your sight picture. Alignment of the front sight in the rear bitch is easy, your eyes and brain are naturally good at lining shit up. Holding this on the target isn’t hard for your eyes either, but it’s hard for your lizard brain to not try to jerk the trigger when your eyes see a perfect sight alignment with the target. This is the mind **** of pistol or rifle marksmanship. You can’t smash the trigger like an ape just because your eyes tell you the sights are perfect, well you can but you will miss the target. Slamming the trigger shoe into the frame jacks up all that aiming work you were doing because you disturb your sights during the lock time of the action before the round lights off and leaves the barrel. In addition many new shooters anticipate the recoil and push the muzzle down in a pre-ignition flinch. The combined result is the rounds impacting low, and the opposite side of the shooter’s firing hand. Aiming is pointless until you learn how to press the trigger strait back to the rear in a controlled manner.

 

As a beginner you have to force yourself to accept that you can not hold the gun perfectly still on the target, and to just press the trigger strait back to the rear building pressure until the shot breaks as your sights sway around on the target. It’s a simple concept that is not necessarily easy, suppressing your lizard brain that want to make the gun go off NOW! because the eyes tell lizard brain the sights are good to go is hard. Also lizard brain is pretty convinced that this exploding object you’re holding in front of your stupid looking face might hurt you and it would be best to try to keep it down when it goes bang. So you get to force yourself to overrule lizard brain and not flinch, and not snatch at the trigger. Eventually lizard brain will **** off and this will become a subconscious level task, but it takes meaningful correct repetitions to achieve. Meaningful correct repetitions are easier to achieve with a low recoiling platform, and all the good trigger control skills you learn will translate to any other pistol or rifle you subsequently acquire.

 

As far as .22LR pistols are concerned, I have strong opinions. The only worthwhile options are target pistols, or quality revolvers. If you elect to purchase a target pistol depending on what you get you will have to feed it quality ammo or it won’t work right. So standard velocity target ammo, or go get fucked. The Ruger MK-II/III family or Browning Buckmark are good entry level options and will generally work with high velocity ammo of good quality as well as good standard velocity target ammo. Volquartson makes fancy Rugers of match quality that honestly cost as much as an Olympic pistol.

 

Beyond that you get into dedicated competition Bullseye or international/Olympic style guns that cost $$$$$$$$$. They also refuse to work right with cheap bulk ammo. Benelli, Hammerli, Pardini etc are in this category and these days Pardini’s are the one to beat. A Benelli MP95E is what I took to nationals, and I still have it. Parts are scarce though as it’s no longer imported.

 

Then you have your various .22LR’s they try to imitate the look or administrative handling characteristics of a full size duty gun, they’re almost all universally utter shit made of pot metal.

 

Another option is the .22LR conversion kit for a centerfire service type pistol. Some of them like the Marvel conversion for a 1911, or the old Swiss conversion for a SIG P210 are works of art and are priced accordingly. Most of the others are nasty dog shit. There are a few exceptions but you have to research them carefully.

 

Next we have .22LR revolvers, aka “wheel guns”. Cool thing about revolvers is the ammunition doesn’t function the action like a semi-auto. This is true of both rimfire and centerfire revolvers (or semi-autos). So a revolver can handle any pressure range of ammo in a given caliber most of the time (there are some centerfire exceptions in old cartridges like .45 Colt). Furthermore a revolver can handle any shape of projectile that will fit in the chambers/cylinder, semiauto pistols do not share that trait. So you can run pretty much any .22 ammo aside from .22 Magnum in a .22LR revolver, and it will happily run through all of it including bulk trash ammo that will give a semi-auto fits. Easy choices here: Ruger or Smith & Wesson if buying new, used Colt’s can be had but are $$$$. You could also buy a Freedom Arms but be prepared to spend $$$$.

 

Personally I’d go for a Ruger or Smith & Wesson double action with 4” barrel if you go the wheel gun route. If you learn to run a DA revolver trigger you will then be able to run every trigger on any firearm you henceforth encounter.

 

Good luck.

[THE RZA]

only reason I recommend a 9mm over a 22 is the times I've spoke to Dish about guns, doesn't sound like he wants this to be the start of a collection, just wants a gun because Mizzurah.

 

I also forget that most people here live in America not NJ where getting handguns are a pain in the ass. Before I made my vacation home in Pennsylvania my official state of residency all I owned were 2 9mm handguns, a P226 and P229 because getting a permit each time I wanted to buy a handgun was a pain in the dick. I only did it twice over 4 years of residency here so I figured if I'm not going to own many pistols, make it something versatile.

[Norm Peterson]

As far as .22LR pistols are concerned, I have strong opinions. The only worthwhile options are target pistols, or quality revolvers. If you elect to purchase a target pistol depending on what you get you will have to feed it quality ammo or it won’t work right. So standard velocity target ammo, or go get fucked. The Ruger MK-II/III family or Browning Buckmark are good entry level options and will generally work with high velocity ammo of good quality as well as good standard velocity target ammo. Volquartson makes fancy Rugers of match quality that honestly cost as much as an Olympic pistol.

It's reassuring when somebody with your level of pistol shooting experience mentioned pistols I own. Well, the Ruger I have to go with the Buckmark is a MK-IV Competition, so I'm calling it close enough.

 

 

Norm

[Norm Peterson]

only reason I recommend a 9mm over a 22 is the times I've spoke to Dish about guns, doesn't sound like he wants this to be the start of a collection, just wants a gun because Mizzurah.

For the use(s) that Dish currently envisions, I think for 9mm I'd actively look at something not intended for concealed carry. Something 1911-based with a 5" barrel would have the weight and bulk to mitigate recoil a bit, and in my rather limited experience a 1911 trigger is nicer than the triggers on striker-fired pistols.

 

 

I also forget that most people here live in America not NJ where getting handguns are a pain in the ass. Before I made my vacation home in Pennsylvania my official state of residency all I owned were 2 9mm handguns, a P226 and P229 because getting a permit each time I wanted to buy a handgun was a pain in the dick. I only did it twice over 4 years of residency here so I figured if I'm not going to own many pistols, make it something versatile.

The trick here in NJ is to get more than one pistol purchase permit with your application, with a good idea of what you really want to spend your money on already in mind. NJ's gun laws do discourage impulse buying (probably the whole reason for them being what they are), which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Only if you're getting close to your last purchase permit expiring might you feel any pressure to just go out and buy something.

 

 

Norm

[Norm Peterson]

I was thinking about a 9mm initially, but realized I probably am only going to use it at a range, and home defense isn't a huge concern of mine.

 

The classes I'm doing they provide the guns, which I believe are 9mm. I might rent some 9mms too and see if I should skip the .22 I guess. They have VP9s, Springfield XD9, Rugers and Glocks. Thanks for the info on boxes

Before you buy anything in 9mm, shoot either a Colt 1911 Government Model or Springfield's Range Officer in 9mm.

 

 

On the matter of gun safes, think about whether you're likely to ever buy a long gun. You should be able to shoot a .22 rifle at indoor ranges.

 

 

Norm

[THE RZA]

 

 

 

The trick here in NJ is to get more than one pistol purchase permit with your application, with a good idea of what you really want to spend your money on already in mind. NJ's gun laws do discourage impulse buying (probably the whole reason for them being what they are), which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Only if you're getting close to your last purchase permit expiring might you feel any pressure to just go out and buy something.

 

 

Norm

 

 

Yeah I know that's what a lot of people do, I never did that because that means I'd have to commit to buying another handgun. I only applied for a handgun permit when I got my first FID and when I moved within the state and did a change of address. Since i was already doing the FID process it made sense to apply for a handgun permit at the same time.