Sgt.Gator Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 40 PSI is low on a cold engine. 10 is low anytime. It's possible the oil pump bypass is stuck open inside the pump. But first, and I know this sounds strange, but it's dirt cheap and easy: Change your oil filter to a new oem filter. If that doesn't work you can check your bypass without taking the pump off the car. (But you have to take the timing covers off). When you look at the bottom of the pump there are three hex plugs, two are vertical, one is at an angle. The one that's at an angle (maybe 30 degrees from vertical) is the bypass. When you pull out the hex plug, you should have a shim (just a washer), a spring, and a plunger. When the oil pressure rises above 85 psi, the plunger is pushed toward the plug, compressing the spring. When it's pushed far enough, it opens a recess that lets the oil bypass back into the feed of the pump. If there's a burr on the plunger or the pump casting itself, the plunger can get stuck in the open position, causing low oil pressure. If it's gunked up with sludge or there's a burr you will possibly have to take the oil pump off to give the bypass a thorough cleaning. http://parts.subaru.com/images/parts/subaru/fullsize/B13_03201104.png Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeitz1979 Posted September 14, 2016 Author Share Posted September 14, 2016 40 PSI is low on a cold engine. 10 is low anytime. It's possible the oil pump bypass is stuck open inside the pump. But first, and I know this sounds strange, but it's dirt cheap and easy: Change your oil filter to a new oem filter. If that doesn't work you can check your bypass without taking the pump off the car. (But you have to take the timing covers off). When you look at the bottom of the pump there are three hex plugs, two are vertical, one is at an angle. The one that's at an angle (maybe 30 degrees from vertical) is the bypass. When you pull out the hex plug, you should have a shim (just a washer), a spring, and a plunger. When the oil pressure rises above 85 psi, the plunger is pushed toward the plug, compressing the spring. When it's pushed far enough, it opens a recess that lets the oil bypass back into the feed of the pump. If there's a burr on the plunger or the pump casting itself, the plunger can get stuck in the open position, causing low oil pressure. If it's gunked up with sludge or there's a burr you will possibly have to take the oil pump off to give the bypass a thorough cleaning. http://parts.subaru.com/images/parts/subaru/fullsize/B13_03201104.png Both oil filters? Or just the one under by the pan. I seen one in the drivers fender. Oil filter for the cooler I guess? And do you have a suggested filter to use? I will definitely follow your steps in checking the bypass. Thanks for the reply and I will let you know later how I make out checking the bypass n changing the filter Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 The fender one is for the gearbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeitz1979 Posted September 14, 2016 Author Share Posted September 14, 2016 The fender one is for the gearbox. Ah, that's good to know lol I seen it but didn't even question what it was Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Both oil filters? Or just the one under by the pan. I seen one in the drivers fender. Oil filter for the cooler I guess? And do you have a suggested filter to use? I will definitely follow your steps in checking the bypass. Thanks for the reply and I will let you know later how I make out checking the bypass n changing the filter Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk OEM Subaru oil filter. Or any filter. It really doesn't matter for this test. You should be driving no more than 100 miles before you toss the filter and change the oil anyway after a re-build. Then in another 300 miles do it again. And again after 500 more miles. BTW, how or why did you re-build the block without changing the oil filter? Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeitz1979 Posted September 14, 2016 Author Share Posted September 14, 2016 OEM Subaru oil filter. Or any filter. It really doesn't matter for this test. You should be driving no more than 100 miles before you toss the filter and change the oil anyway after a re-build. Then in another 300 miles do it again. And again after 500 more miles. BTW, how or why did you re-build the block without changing the oil filter? Haha, don't be misguided by my question. They filter is new. I put a fram filter on it in place of the K&n filter that previously was on it . It's a pretty small one. I asked because I have seen that you can run a brand that has a longer filter. Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmP6889928 Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 Fram has no check valve. Regardless of length, why Gator said to go OE was because of the check valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeitz1979 Posted September 15, 2016 Author Share Posted September 15, 2016 Fram has no check valve. Regardless of length, why Gator said to go OE was because of the check valve. Interesting. I didn't know that and am glad that I'm aware of it now. Is the oe something the parts store will carry or is that a dealer part? Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8lolsubie Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 Check mechanical oil pressure. Simple as that. Rent an oil pressure test gauge from autozone if you have to but don't risk blowing your motor not knowing. The red oil light is for oil pressure. Not level, not oil type but for oil pressure. If its flickering, its because its not switched on when required oil pressure is met. Its only an on off switch, not a transducer like after market oil pressure gauges are. It does not measure PSI oil pressure, it just switches on when required oil pressure is on at a given RPM. That being said I belive the spec for idle is between 1 to 3 bar. One bar being 14.7 PSI minimum. At 3k RPM fully hot you should see like 50 PSI. Okay so what is oil pressure? Oil pressure is created not by the oil pump itself but by the resistance that oil faces when its forced into tight clearance areas like camshaft journals, crankshaft bearings and AVCS cam gears. Oil pumps only move volumes of oil to these tight places. So that being said if the spacing or clearance between your crank bearings or cams is too wide, oil pressure will be low. Worn out engines will have low pressure from this even with new pumps because they are simply worn out. Check mechanical oil pressure first, see what the actual pressure is. If you have like 15 psi at 4k RPM, they you have a real problem that needs to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmP6889928 Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 ^^^Exactly. I run a mechanical oil pressure gauge under the hood I call the truth gauge because I don't trust electrical sending units, even the one on my AEM gauge inside the car. You can buy a mechanical gauge at Autozone, Advance, O'Reilly, or other parts stores for about $20 and it will absolutely tell you the truth. That's why i said initially to try replacing the oil pressure sending unit first. They become gooped up inside if the OCI is not regular or crap oil is used and then they read erratically. You can access the oil galleries from two plugs on the top of the block-one under the alternator where your current sending unit resides and another under the turbo. I'm working on a kit now that will make it easy to plumb oil pressure gauges into any of these systems. I'll keep you informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeitz1979 Posted September 15, 2016 Author Share Posted September 15, 2016 ^^^Exactly. I run a mechanical oil pressure gauge under the hood I call the truth gauge because I don't trust electrical sending units, even the one on my AEM gauge inside the car. You can buy a mechanical gauge at Autozone, Advance, O'Reilly, or other parts stores for about $20 and it will absolutely tell you the truth. That's why i said initially to try replacing the oil pressure sending unit first. They become gooped up inside if the OCI is not regular or crap oil is used and then they read erratically. You can access the oil galleries from two plugs on the top of the block-one under the alternator where your current sending unit resides and another under the turbo. I'm working on a kit now that will make it easy to plumb oil pressure gauges into any of these systems. I'll keep you informed. Yeah let me know on the plumb kit. I bought a oil pressure test kit from my local store and tested the pressure. I posted my results a day or two ago. I'd like to plumb a real pressure gauge in the car. Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 Post #25 he already did the physical test: "At first starting the car I was at like 40_40+ psi but as the car warmed up, the pressure dropped to 10 psi and I could tell it was going to continue to decline so I shut the car off." The OEM filter is at a Subaru dealer, or online at eBay or Amazon. or a local autoparts store will have Mobil1 and other premium brand oil filters. Fram not having a bypass is news to me! According to Fram the PH9715 has a 16-28 PSI relief valve. http://www.framcatalog.com/PartDetailWindow.aspx?b=F&pn=PH9715 Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeitz1979 Posted September 15, 2016 Author Share Posted September 15, 2016 Post #25 he already did the physical test: "At first starting the car I was at like 40_40+ psi but as the car warmed up, the pressure dropped to 10 psi and I could tell it was going to continue to decline so I shut the car off." The OEM filter is at a Subaru dealer, or online at eBay or Amazon. or a local autoparts store will have Mobil1 and other premium brand oil filters. Fram not having a bypass is news to me! According to Fram the PH9715 has a 16-28 PSI relief valve. http://www.framcatalog.com/PartDetailWindow.aspx?b=F&pn=PH9715 Yeah I was unaware of filters having s valve it anything like that in them. For what the cost of a Subaru filter is, I think I will buy a few of them to have on hand. Thanks for the info. I'm glad to have helpful responses and the knowledge you guys have been sharing. Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmP6889928 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Post #25 he already did the physical test: "At first starting the car I was at like 40_40+ psi but as the car warmed up, the pressure dropped to 10 psi and I could tell it was going to continue to decline so I shut the car off." The OEM filter is at a Subaru dealer, or online at eBay or Amazon. or a local autoparts store will have Mobil1 and other premium brand oil filters. Fram not having a bypass is news to me! According to Fram the PH9715 has a 16-28 PSI relief valve. http://www.framcatalog.com/PartDetailWindow.aspx?b=F&pn=PH9715 Cut one open once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Nice to see Fram puts a cross reference list on there web site. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeitz1979 Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 OK, I wanted to post an update on my problem I had. I know it has not been the most speedy process but I'm a busy guy,like you guys as well. I pulled the pan, and oil pick up. Pulled the oil pump as well. No stone unturned. The oil pick up seal was damaged. Replaced with another new seal, onto the new moroso oil pick up. Torqued all my bolts back to spec on the oil pick up and pan. Took the oil pump apart and found the bypass was sticking and had wear I'm it, and it was clean, so no chances I got a spare from a buddy and checked it out, new seal and installed that was well. After buttoning all of that up, I prime the oil thru the car, I let it fire and I have a lot of pressure now. 80+ psi on start. I didn't let it run for only a minute or two and then my favorite light came on. Cruise flashing and cel came on. Hooked the obd to it and it says P2021. Look that up and seems like it could be an easy fix, but why now when it didn't before? Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 As far as I know, p2021 is a TGV code which should not be related to the oil pressure/pan/pickup tube. I think it's just a coincidence that it came on after you did the other work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeitz1979 Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 As far as I know, p2021 is a TGV code which should not be related to the oil pressure/pan/pickup tube. I think it's just a coincidence that it came on after you did the other work. Yes, tgv is what I found as well. I found a video showing the removal and install,seems easy. What causes these to fail? Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Did you miss a connector when you worked on the car - or damaged one of the sensors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeitz1979 Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 I had the intake off as a unit. I thought maybe it wasn't pushed in far enough so I did double check wires and plugs. I guess anything is possible. I do have another one to switch out with but I'm mainly wondering what this sensor does and what exactly does it connect to to cause fault. I'm glad it's just this now. It's a lot better then low oil pressure Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 FWIW, I believe the sensor your talking about is the same as a TPS and can be had for about $30.00 I haven't checked the code yet, is take a bad sensor code or bad motor code? Oh yea, sensor. Check that you didn't break the connector. A tuner can delete that code, you don't need to fix a broken sensor. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I have found out that the sensors can crack pretty easily. Even a small crack is enough for it to malfunction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 See post 166 http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/idea-web-links-saved-various-parts-219238p5.html 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeitz1979 Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 Max, links not working. Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/idea-web-links-saved-various-parts-219238p5.html its the sticky up top of this forum about various parts. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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