LegacyKid5 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 I'm going to be ordering the Grimmspeed Uppipe with turbosmart external waste gate here pretty soon and had few questions. And the reason I am looking at an EWG setup is that Gex, the previous owner of the turbo experienced boost creep with the turbo so I'm assuming I will have the same issue and Cobb will stop tuning immediately if the discover boost creep. So here are my questions: 1. Who has opted for the thermal coating on the uppipe and can anyone attest to how much of a difference it makes? It's only $40 more so I'm on the fence about it. 2. In terms of EWG size, I was going to go with the 40mm Turbosmart but when I talked to Cobb Surgeline, who is going to be tuning the car they said it wouldn't hurt to have the 45mm but other sources have told me running the 45mm will be too big and counter the point of running a EWG and delay spool. So I'm looking for opinions on which size I should go with based on the following setup, lets here the pros and cons to both sizes: -Cobb AccessPORT v2 -Grimmspeed Intake -CNT Downpipe -Sti catless Uppipe -Greddy SP2 Wagon Exhaust -Koyo All Aluminum Racing Radiator -Perrin Turbo Inlet -VF52 -Grimmspeed Topmount Intercooler (Thermal Coated) -Grimmspeed Electronic Boost Control Solenoid 3 Port -Deatschwerks 65c Fuel Pump -ID 1000c Injectors -IAG TVG deletes -IAG top feed fuel rails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I just did some quick research on this, and since no one else has replied yet I'll throw out my .02. It sounds like how much boost you want to run plays a big part in what size wastegate you should go with. How much boost are you looking to go with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacybt Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I'm going to be ordering the Grimmspeed Uppipe with turbosmart external waste gate here pretty soon and had few questions. And the reason I am looking at an EWG setup is that Gex, the previous owner of the turbo experienced boost creep with the turbo so I'm assuming I will have the same issue and Cobb will stop tuning immediately if the discover boost creep. So here are my questions: 1. Who has opted for the thermal coating on the uppipe and can anyone attest to how much of a difference it makes? It's only $40 more so I'm on the fence about it. 2. In terms of EWG size, I was going to go with the 40mm Turbosmart but when I talked to Cobb Surgeline, who is going to be tuning the car they said it wouldn't hurt to have the 45mm but other sources have told me running the 45mm will be too big and counter the point of running a EWG and delay spool. So I'm looking for opinions on which size I should go with based on the following setup, lets here the pros and cons to both sizes: -Cobb AccessPORT v2 -Grimmspeed Intake -CNT Downpipe -Sti catless Uppipe -Greddy SP2 Wagon Exhaust -Koyo All Aluminum Racing Radiator -Perrin Turbo Inlet -VF52 -Grimmspeed Intercooler (Thermal Coated) -Grimmspeed Electronic Boost Control Solenoid 3 Port -Deatschwerks 65c Fuel Pump -ID 1000c Injectors -IAG TVG deletes -IAG top feed fuel rails Without any data to support the coating's effectiveness I'd skip it and wrap the uppipe with DEI Titanium header/exhaust wrap instead (or send it out to Swaintech - that stuff is ). I'm trying to figure out the same thing with the EWG as well. Take a look at Turbosmart's website - they recommend larger wastegates for large turbo, low boost applications, and smaller wastegates for high boost and smaller turbos. If you're sticking with the VF52 long term then the 40mm sounds like the right wastegate according to Turbosmart (plus it's cheaper), but if you have any intention of going larger down the road then the 45mm could be worth it for the extra headroom - especially if Cobb say they can effectively tune your setup with it. Nice mod list by the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegacyKid5 Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 Thanks for the info guys! I talked with some people over at Rally Sport Direct and got my stiff ordered. Ended up skipping the coating because as legacybt mentioned there isn't much data supporting that it makes much difference and if I decided to plumb the dump tube into the downpipe after I get tired of the EWG at boost I figured it would be easy to weld onto the stainless steel. As far as the EWG itself, the guy at Rally Sport Direct said whatever I do, DO NOT go with 45mm EWG because it will counter what the EWG is supposed to be doing and create slower spool from the turbo. So given that I'm planning to stick with the VF52 for awhile I went with the Turbosmart 40mm EWG. Now just need to get my fueling components and I'll be setup! And thanks, I've loved all the mods I've done so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacybt Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Thanks for the info guys! I talked with some people over at Rally Sport Direct and got my stiff ordered. Ended up skipping the coating because as legacybt mentioned there isn't much data supporting that it makes much difference and if I decided to plumb the dump tube into the downpipe after I get tired of the EWG at boost I figured it would be easy to weld onto the stainless steel. As far as the EWG itself, the guy at Rally Sport Direct said whatever I do, DO NOT go with 45mm EWG because it will counter what the EWG is supposed to be doing and create slower spool from the turbo. So given that I'm planning to stick with the VF52 for awhile I went with the Turbosmart 40mm EWG. Now just need to get my fueling components and I'll be setup! And thanks, I've loved all the mods I've done so far. Good choice! Interesting to hear that bit of info from RSD... I'll have to reach out to a few tuners and get their opinions as well. If you don't want to pay to re-tune, plumb the EWG into your downpipe during the initial install. Wastegate duty cycles will have to change due to the higher backpressure of the exhaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegacyKid5 Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 Good choice! Interesting to hear that bit of info from RSD... I'll have to reach out to a few tuners and get their opinions as well. If you don't want to pay to re-tune, plumb the EWG into your downpipe during the initial install. Wastegate duty cycles will have to change due to the higher backpressure of the exhaust. A bit more info after talking to HJ at Cobb and he was telling me for my setup that the spring that comes stock with the Turbomsmart will be too stiff, so I'm ordering a slightly less stiff one currently. I'm torn on whether or not to bump the wastegate into the downpipe. I've ridden in cars with EWG's but never for a long period of time and I'm concerned about the noise getting old after awhile. Cost wise I'm looking at about $450 to do the labor or I wait it would be the labor cost plus an additional $200 of retune. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quick4dr Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I DD open dump EWG with a Tial 38mm EWG. it only screams when I want it to. for most normal driving and light boost around town she doesn't crack open to a screamer. When I want her to be loud she screams... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike07LGT Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 In my opinion and after posting about this awhile ago, the vf52 isn't big enough to warrant the need for an external gate. Do alot of people have trouble with boost creep on that turbo? I would think just a good boost controller will allow you to hold the boost for that size turbo just fine.. I loved the sound of it when I had one on my STI though! 03 WRB WRX (RIP) 04 JBP STI (sold) 07 DGM Legacy GT (RIP) 12 OBP STI (DD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gex Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 3 port electronic boost controllers actually make the boost creep on the VF52 more pronounced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegacyKid5 Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 I DD open dump EWG with a Tial 38mm EWG. it only screams when I want it to. for most normal driving and light boost around town she doesn't crack open to a screamer. When I want her to be loud she screams... Thanks for that input, that definitely helps in making my decision. I'm think at this point I'll run it open dump. In my opinion and after posting about this awhile ago, the vf52 isn't big enough to warrant the need for an external gate. Do alot of people have trouble with boost creep on that turbo? I would think just a good boost controller will allow you to hold the boost for that size turbo just fine.. I loved the sound of it when I had one on my STI though! Ben (Gex) was the previous owner of the turbo and had issues with boost creep on a similar setup so based on that and the recommendation of the tuner I decided to go with an EWG setup. Also if I decide to run a bigger turbo in the future I will want the EWG anyway. Also ended up ordering a Tial wastegate instead of the Turbosmart at the recommendation of Cobb. They said they had too many issues with he Turbosmart boosting too little or too much and the springs not being close to their rated psi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike07LGT Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Thanks for that input, that definitely helps in making my decision. I'm think at this point I'll run it open dump. Ben (Gex) was the previous owner of the turbo and had issues with boost creep on a similar setup so based on that and the recommendation of the tuner I decided to go with an EWG setup. Also if I decide to run a bigger turbo in the future I will want the EWG anyway. Also ended up ordering a Tial wastegate instead of the Turbosmart at the recommendation of Cobb. They said they had too many issues with he Turbosmart boosting too little or too much and the springs not being close to their rated psi. Is there something wrong with the turbo? I've never heard of these issues with anyone else running a vf52... 03 WRB WRX (RIP) 04 JBP STI (sold) 07 DGM Legacy GT (RIP) 12 OBP STI (DD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBwrench Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I thought it was kind of un-surprising to have a little boost creep on a VF52, no? My VF46 creeps a little as well in the cold. MTBwrench's Stage 3 5EAT #racewagon 266awhp/255awtq @17.5psi, Tuned By Graham of Boosted Performance Everyone knows what I taste like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gex Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 It is actually extremely common on the VF39/43/48/52 turbos... Quick google search will turn up lots of hits. You have two options. Port and polish the turbo or external gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegacyKid5 Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 Is there something wrong with the turbo? I've never heard of these issues with anyone else running a vf52... No as Gex said it's an extremely common issue tuners experience with these model of turbos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocinoman25 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I am running GS coated uppipe with turbosmart 40mm compgate wastegate with a 14psi spring with no issues. I went with thermal coated since im staying tmic. Perrin ELH are ceramic coated, TMIC coated and heat wrapped. Stx71 coated and blanket with dei gold wrapped turbo heat shield and underhood temps are noticeably alot cooler. Gs 3port ebcs as well. Your mod list sounds loke alot of fun! Youll be worryfree with boostcreep since 3port and ewg setup. Bpd tmic mod? I didnt see a tmic or fmic on your list? Follow me on IG @chefodiycarguy and @chefo.soriano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegacyKid5 Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 I am running GS coated uppipe with turbosmart 40mm compgate wastegate with a 14psi spring with no issues. I went with thermal coated since im staying tmic. Perrin ELH are ceramic coated, TMIC coated and heat wrapped. Stx71 coated and blanket with dei gold wrapped turbo heat shield and underhood temps are noticeably alot cooler. Gs 3port ebcs as well. Your mod list sounds loke alot of fun! Youll be worryfree with boostcreep since 3port and ewg setup. Bpd tmic mod? I didnt see a tmic or fmic on your list? Thanks for the info on that! And I have a grimmspeed thermal coated TMIC so I'm all good there as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike07LGT Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 It is actually extremely common on the VF39/43/48/52 turbos... Quick google search will turn up lots of hits. You have two options. Port and polish the turbo or external gate. Or just go with a bigger turbo 03 WRB WRX (RIP) 04 JBP STI (sold) 07 DGM Legacy GT (RIP) 12 OBP STI (DD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldsoda Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 its already been said, but I'll confirm... I've daily driven an external wastegate (tial 44) without plumbing into the downpipe and yes its loud... but only when you really get into it. Drive the car normally and its not that bad at all. also... only coating I've ever done and will recommend is swain tech white lightning. I had this done to a killerb holy header setup and it was well worth the money. its not a cheap coating... but it actually works. I wouldn't bother with the $40 coating. lastly, bigger turbo you'll want a smaller ewg, small turbo;bigger egw (as correctly mentioned at the beginning of this thread). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacybt Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Quote from Turbosmart's Website: TRUE OR FALSE The more powerful the engine, the bigger the wastegate you need False. This is one of the more popular misconceptions. A wastegate is possibly the only component in your whole engine package that can actually be made smaller as you increase your boost/horsepower output. Use this simple guide: Big Turbo/Low Boost = Bigger Wastegate Big Turbo/High Boost = Smaller Wastegate Small Turbo/High Boost = Smaller Wastegate Small Turbo/Low Boost = Bigger Wastegate I got in touch with two reputable tuners and they said they'd have no problem tuning a 44mm on a stock turbo. Regardless, the 38mm will suit your application best. I think ~20 psi is considered 'high boost,' and their wastegates go as large as 60mm so a 44mm is still relatively small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegacyKid5 Posted February 26, 2016 Author Share Posted February 26, 2016 its already been said, but I'll confirm... I've daily driven an external wastegate (tial 44) without plumbing into the downpipe and yes its loud... but only when you really get into it. Drive the car normally and its not that bad at all. also... only coating I've ever done and will recommend is swain tech white lightning. I had this done to a killerb holy header setup and it was well worth the money. its not a cheap coating... but it actually works. I wouldn't bother with the $40 coating. lastly, bigger turbo you'll want a smaller ewg, small turbo;bigger egw (as correctly mentioned at the beginning of this thread). All good information to know, thanks for chiming in. My tial 38 and grimmspeed Uppipe arrived yesterday and I'm getting pretty excited to install them and get tuned. Quote from Turbosmart's Website: I got in touch with two reputable tuners and they said they'd have no problem tuning a 44mm on a stock turbo. Regardless, the 38mm will suit your application best. I think ~20 psi is considered 'high boost,' and their wastegates go as large as 60mm so a 44mm is still relatively small. Thanks for that info, very helpful as I'm learning more about the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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