Hard to downshift - 2nd and 4th

[GTEASER]

Fluid level is not your issue. A few of us were surmising that the fluid that is in there is just not something that the tranny is happy with, even if it's new, generic standard gear oil will give you issues similar to what you are experiencing.

[FJuan]

Just because the fluid looks clean doesn't mean it's the proper fluid used. Like we stated, first thing to do is replace the fluid then see how it reacts. Always go the cheaper route before determining what is wrong. In most cases it's just a simple fluid change.

[cyked]

Just because the fluid looks clean doesn't mean it's the proper fluid used. Like we stated, first thing to do is replace the fluid then see how it reacts. Always go the cheaper route before determining what is wrong. In most cases it's just a simple fluid change.

 

Agreed. And just because it looks clean on the dipstick is meaningless. I might pull the plug on the tranny and find all sorts of shit stuck to the magnet.

 

Also. Sweet boots.

[cyked]

Picked up 5 qts this morning. Hopefully if the torx socket is at the door when I get home I'll change the fluids tonight.

 

FWIW, of the 3 local Subaru dealers I called none of them knew what Extra-S is. Had never heard of it. But the part number matches what I've seen here and other forums when Subaru went to qt bottles instead of the 5 gal bucket it used to come in.

[orndog]

What size is that torx? What about the allen for the rear diff?

[GTEASER]

What size is that torx? What about the allen for the rear diff?

 

The Torx for the tranny is a T70. The rear diff just uses 1/2" square socket.

[orndog]

Oh right, 2010 (like my Fozzie duh). I was trying to figure out what size my '13 diff plug was lol

[cyked]

Ok, work is done. Both the rear diff and tranny fluid drained looked damn near the same as far as color goes. Mostly black/dark in color, but at a certain angle/light it had a rich caramel color to it.

 

The car was mostly driven in Maine, and there is rust damn near everywhere. Getting all the plugs off were a bitch, having to use the bar from the jack to break the tranny plug loose. The rear end wasn't able to use the bar, but was able to get them off by other means.

 

Now for the pics

 

dirty tranny plug

http://i.imgur.com/mh66awO.jpg

 

clean tranny plug

http://i.imgur.com/6lq57du.jpg

 

 

 

dirty rear diff plug

http://i.imgur.com/xxJKi2O.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Xvejc0W.jpg

 

 

 

I wrapped up the tranny fluid change and went for a quick drive. I want to say I could tell an immediate difference. The real test will be next few mornings during the first 20 or so minutes of driving (its around 65 degrees out right now).

 

 

heres the full album - http://imgur.com/mh66awO,ES9LfNT,6lq57du,ttxKuEX,dL7HoEv,FlbD3TJ,zuvh9sg,Xvejc0W,xxJKi2O,MI474Wx,jSzQSYm

[GTEASER]

Those pics look normal, nothing unusual. Sounds like you took care of the issue.

 

From here on out, change the tranny fluid every 25-30k miles, you'll notice that it starts to get hard to shift on cold mornings right about then. The diffs can probably go 50-60k miles since you have a 2.5i and you aren't putting that much power thru them, not like we are on the turbos and H6s.

 

Since your car is originally from Maine, I would recommend that you have a shop steam clean and power wash the entire under side of the car, including wheel wells, to get any residual salt off the car. You may also want to go around and spray some Permatex Extend on any rusty bits, suspension components, struts, subframes, etc to try to stop the march of rust.

[cyked]

Went for a drive this morning, its 55 or so outside. I did some driving last night as well after 11pm and the car had been sitting for 4+ hours before that.

 

I will say that shifting overall is seriously improved. Upshifting was not an issue before at all, but after the fluid change there is a marked improvement and everything feels buttery smooth. So I'm really happy about that. I had a 2007 speed 3 that I loved, but the mechanism of shifting and the transmission is far and away better and smoother in my Subaru. I only mention the mazda because that is my best and most recent comparison.

 

2nd gear is a big difference as well. While its still a bit rough to start, even during 10 minute drive (no idle warm up) 2nd gear was way better. Its not the same as downshifting into 3rd, but again better than it has been. Perhaps there is room for improvement if there is an issue.

 

4th gear is improved, but still requires to be what I feel is more pressure than necessary. Its not in the same range as 2nd gear downshift, just better than it was prior to the fluid change. Before the fluid change, after leaving the house until the car had been driven for 30 minutes downshifting into 4th was really not possible unless I gently forced it. Meaning I had to pull, I wasn't slamming or jerking it into gear. I've experienced zero grinding regardless of how I've drive at any point since getting the car.

 

I feel another improvement is that 2nd gear downshift in traffic/at a light that 2nd gear is way more viable at a lower RPM roll. Before the fluid change I felt at times the car would stall in 2nd at lower RPMs and was slowing down enough to get into 1st.

 

Any thoughts on what to do from here? I think I'll take it to a local place I trust and let them drive it in the morning. Any other thoughts, am I being crazy and unreasonable for a six year old car at 95k miles, or should I continue pressing the issue with carmax?

 

I appreciate the input from everyone. Thanks again.

[cyked]

:woowoo:Out driving right now. It's 70, but shifting really well, even 4th is just a bit rough but actually functional.

[GTEASER]

Sounds exactly like a normal Subaru tranny. I highly doubt there are any issues. I wouldnt bother losing sleep over it, just get used to the quirks and enjoy it.

[FJuan]

And..................... you're welcome.

[Thinking out side box]

I would do an AT swap, will get ride of all these problems

[Max Capacity]

FWIW, my rebuilt tranny has the fluid the Subaru dealer sold to the tranny shop.

 

The tranny is a little stiff on cold mornings, I mean below freezing.

 

I'll most likely be putting Motul 300 in it that I will get from "Underdog".

 

With the old Extra-S it was never stiff (hard to shift) in the cold morning's.

[FPerron]

It's possible I missed it, but I don't recall anywhere in this thread where the OP explained how he was downshifting. Without double-clutching, or at least making an attempt at rev matching, I wouldn't expect easy downshifting from any transmission.

[Max Capacity]

I don't double clutch but rev matching is normal.

 

I usually just coast when I want to slow down by using the brakes.

 

But there are those times when I'm having fun that I do down shift. Like from 5th to 3rd and then WOT when merging onto the highway.

[orndog]

FWIW, my rebuilt tranny has the fluid the Subaru dealer sold to the tranny shop.

 

The tranny is a little stiff on cold mornings, I mean below freezing.

 

I'll most likely be putting Motul 300 in it that I will get from "Underdog".

 

With the old Extra-S it was never stiff (hard to shift) in the cold morning's.

 

 

underdog?

[FJuan]

I rev'ed matched all the time, and still no problems after 10 yrs. But, in his case, it was more of an fluid issue.

 

Case closed.

[cyked]

Sorry for not posting an update.

 

I dropped the car off at Carmax on a sunday, and they drove it the following morning. They ended up taking to a local tranny shop. They replaced the tradition (used 30k) and clutch, throwout bearing, etc, said the clutch was a mess. Got the car back and it drove great for the first 5 or so days.

 

As far as driving, I don't double clutch. I will rev match if I feel I need to. When I'm downshifting I'm at such a low RPM it shouldn't be needed, otherwise, I do.

 

Now, after the first 5 days of having the car back I noticed some differences, primarily the hard downshift in the mornings. But seems the car was warming up quicker than before. Kept driving another week or so and also notice a feeling/noise on the clutch when depressed to the floor. Like a whirring feel. I took the car in and they drove around, passenger and driving, and told me to not worry about it. Everything sounds/feels solid and normal.

 

About a week after that I'm noticed the notchiness in shifting again along with what feels like gear grinding upshifting to 2nd and 3rd in the morning. Its not nearly as cold in the morning as it was when I go the car end of Jan, and I've been parking in the garage two. After 3-4 stops the issue is gone, so I'm just easy on it in the AM and keeping an eye on if anything is different from here on out.

[GTEASER]

What kind of transmission fluid is in it? These trannys are very picky about the type of fluid. Plain old 75W-90 won't cut it.

[cyked]

My guess would be whatever regular 75W they use at the shop there, probably out of a 35/55 gal drum. Doubt they picked it up from Subaru.

[Max Capacity]

underdog?

 

Yes, PM him, he's a trusted member here and can get you most anything you need for these cars.

 

You can tell him I sent you.

[FPerron]

Sorry for not posting an update.

 

I dropped the car off at Carmax on a sunday, and they drove it the following morning. They ended up taking to a local tranny shop. They replaced the tradition (used 30k) and clutch, throwout bearing, etc, said the clutch was a mess. Got the car back and it drove great for the first 5 or so days.

 

As far as driving, I don't double clutch. I will rev match if I feel I need to. When I'm downshifting I'm at such a low RPM it shouldn't be needed, otherwise, I do.

 

Now, after the first 5 days of having the car back I noticed some differences, primarily the hard downshift in the mornings. But seems the car was warming up quicker than before. Kept driving another week or so and also notice a feeling/noise on the clutch when depressed to the floor. Like a whirring feel. I took the car in and they drove around, passenger and driving, and told me to not worry about it. Everything sounds/feels solid and normal.

 

About a week after that I'm noticed the notchiness in shifting again along with what feels like gear grinding upshifting to 2nd and 3rd in the morning. Its not nearly as cold in the morning as it was when I go the car end of Jan, and I've been parking in the garage two. After 3-4 stops the issue is gone, so I'm just easy on it in the AM and keeping an eye on if anything is different from here on out.

 

It's hard to follow what you had done to the car (is "tradition" supposed to be "transmission"?). If you really had the transmission, clutch and throwout bearing changed, and you are still experiencing the same issues, I'd guess the problem could be you - not the car. Has anyone else driven the car to see how it feels to them?

[Max Capacity]

He said they told him everything feels normal.

 

FWIW, my Spec 2+ clutch makes no noise what so ever when shifting and feels like the stock clutch in my 09 Spec B. The Spec 2+ clutch does make a squeal noise every now and then when letting it out in 1st gear sometimes but that's normal for the Kevlar material. With the clutch pedal pushed in, there is no vibration felt int he pedal. The release is smooth and engagement as well.

 

The rebuilt tranny shifts smoothly. With the Subaru fluid in there its a little clunky until it warms up but never make any grinding noise.