Metal2You Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 My 2006 LGT MT has 104,000 miles on it. I took it in to a shop to have the serpentine belt, timing belt, water pump, thermostat, and spark plugs replaced. Ever since I got it back it has had a very rough idle and I'm getting CEL codes for cylinder 2 misfire. I've taken it back to the same shop multiple times now. They have double checked the timing twice, changed the #2 spark plug again, changed the #2 coil pack, changed the #2 injector, and checked for vacuum/pressure leaks. After they changed the #2 injector it ran better with not CEL for two trips, then the rough idle and CEL came back. It was a rebuilt injector so I'm wondering if that is still possibly the problem. I'm also wondering if the fact they didn't use an OEM timing belt could be the real problem. There was no misfire before they did the work, so I don't think a bad injector, bad rings or bad valve are likely. Could a non-OEM timing belt show markings as though it were timed properly but actually not be the same as OEM? EDIT : It seems to run fine above idle, no obvious bucking, missing or shuttering through the RPM range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 The belt has no effect. I used a Dayco back in 2007 when I did my timing belt in the driveway. Swap #2 injector with another injector and see if the CEL follows it. make sure the wire clip is tight on the coil pack. That's has been an issue for some. If its still there have a compression test done. These cars are known to burn valves if left on the stock tune. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnusonsubie Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 First off is it a constant misfire or does it come and go? Did they gap the spark plugs correctly? Was the coil pack seated all the way on the plug and the wiring harness attached to the coil pack well? The timing belt as long as it was the one for your car should show it timed correctly and if you are concerned with it pop the timing covers off and line up the crank to its timing mark and make sure that all the cams line up on their mark as well. 2005 Vader Wagon Material Tests on Ringland Failure Piston I should have held off and purchased a wagon instead of the spec.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 If the belt was a tooth off or the wrong belt...you'd have much greater issues by now. Also don't worry about the timing marks on the belt, they mean nothing. The only marks the have to line up or on the gears. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal2You Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 I'm stage 2 plus TMIC with a Tuning Alliance e-tune. I don't know how they did it, but they said they checked the timing again and it is perfect so I guess it isn't that. The misfire isn't super consistent, it comes and goes. I have no idea if they gapped the plugs properly, but they did replace the #2 plug a second time. The clip on the wiring harness to the coil is still there and they replaced the coil with a new one. Maybe I'll swap #2 and #4 injectors even though I've already replaced the #2 injector with a rebuilt one. I would be surprised if it were the injector or compression because it was fine before they did the work on it and then had the rough idle and CEL immediately after. I suppose it could be bad wiring to the coil somehow. If it comes to a compression test I might just trade the car off at that point. Would cost thousands to diagnose and repair a compression issue. The car has a nasty dent in it since my wife hit it while it was parked in our driveway, so it just wouldn't be worth all the money necessary to fix it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Trendz Inc. Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 same boat here, swapped plugs, coils, injectors, checked wiring. Compression test and leakdown is next. I suspect a burned valve. My logs only show it misfiring at idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I'm stage 2 plus TMIC with a Tuning Alliance e-tune. I don't know how they did it, but they said they checked the timing again and it is perfect so I guess it isn't that. The misfire isn't super consistent, it comes and goes. I have no idea if they gapped the plugs properly, but they did replace the #2 plug a second time. The clip on the wiring harness to the coil is still there and they replaced the coil with a new one. Maybe I'll swap #2 and #4 injectors even though I've already replaced the #2 injector with a rebuilt one. I would be surprised if it were the injector or compression because it was fine before they did the work on it and then had the rough idle and CEL immediately after. I suppose it could be bad wiring to the coil somehow. If it comes to a compression test I might just trade the car off at that point. Would cost thousands to diagnose and repair a compression issue. The car has a nasty dent in it since my wife hit it while it was parked in our driveway, so it just wouldn't be worth all the money necessary to fix it up. What are you talking about trading it in. Get the dent fixed or replace the panel. the car only has 104,000 miles. You do realize what it would cost to find a car with this much bang for the buck... Are you local to central CT ? 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal2You Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 I live in northern CT and work in central CT. Yeah, the car has 104K and I've read posts here where lots of people are having issues before and after that mileage. I could easily pay to rebuild this engine and then have the turbo fail 5K after that and take the new engine with it. Yes, it was fun while it lasted but if this car needs a rebuild then it isn't the car for me now that I have a wife, two kids, and a dog to haul around. Something bigger and more reliable would be on order, even if it isn't as much fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnusonsubie Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 So what I understand is the question everyone faces when their engine pops and they look at rebuild cost or sell and move on you are in the sell and move on group? You're priorities may be different than mine but for a sub 15k car these are really the most bang for the buck. You have a huge aftermarket support with still more additions being added by lovely companies such as grimmspeed, you have a very easy engine to work on comparatively to Audi/VW/BMW. It's truly a very good car for the money you pay. 2005 Vader Wagon Material Tests on Ringland Failure Piston I should have held off and purchased a wagon instead of the spec.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Yep, with only 104K, the car has many years of life left. My wagon is about to roll 219,000. The ej257 runs great, it has almost 75K and vf52 at 21psi has almost 85k. For say $8000 you can have a car that will last you many years. Living where he dose, I know all the right people to get his car running great for a very long time. Its really easy around here. I just sent that info in a PM to post #6 yesterday. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal2You Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 I suppose if I were to have the engine rebuilt then a new turbo would be good insurance. I've already replaced the clutch with the OEM single mass unit, so presumably that would last a long time too. Is the VF52 more robust and reliable than the VF40? Would I need a larger fuel pump and injectors to support the VF52? You're saying I could have the engine rebuilt, have a new VF52 installed, and get everything setup and tuned for $8K? That would be cheaper than getting another car, even a certified pre-owned. It would be nice to have something larger, but money is a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 yes, that's the basic thing I did. My vf52 is on stock fueling at 21psi for around 85K miles. My ej257 has about 75K on it. www.tuningalliance.com is my tuner. Mike Kinsman knows these cars inside out. Ask him for guidance. He's in Vernon right off exit 65 on rt84. Between Mike, Rich at Colonial Brake and Tire in Somersville 860 749 7988, and Mark Eastwood of Eastweoods Auto Machine 860 749 2903 and the contacts at Suburban Subaru I'm sure the cost would be around that ball park number, I can't speak for the shops labor cost. Make a list of the things you'll need and have that handy when you talk to them. Tell them Byron sent you. I stopped by Eastwoods yesterday just to say Hi, and tell Angelo the Tranny guy, I'll be bringing him my rear diff the end of April he works for Mark. I also know a great body shop, they can be a little pricey like some shops but the work and paint is show quality, because they're main focus in Restoration work. I can give you there name if you'd like, they are in Ellington. Hey do you need a great insurance agent too, Jason just got me a new lower rate for my 3 cars. If you enjoy the car, its worth a few phone calls or if your close enough stop by. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 When does the car misfire? cold idle? warm idle? any idle? or while pulling? Can you pull an LV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal2You Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 Misfires during any idle, not while pulling. LV being learning view? I don't think so, I don't have a laptop, and I've only got the Cobb AccessPort dongle and a blue-tooth OBDII adapter that I use with Torque on Android. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 You may well have a burnt valve then and/or valve out of clearance? You could check the clearance yourself btw.. So you own a cobb accessport? If yes, then you should be able to pull an LV or at least check your fuel trims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Also, how is your oil consumption? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal2You Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 Oil consumption changed 6 months ago or so. It used to hardly use any oil at all, now it uses maybe 1/2 quart in 4000 miles. I didn't think much of it because these engines are known to use oil, but it did change a few months ago so maybe that is something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Misfires during any idle, not while pulling. LV being learning view? I don't think so, I don't have a laptop, and I've only got the Cobb AccessPort dongle and a blue-tooth OBDII adapter that I use with Torque on Android. Yea, contact Mike Kinsman in the link I posted above. Stop guessing. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 1/2 quart of oil consumption in 4k miles is not bad at all. But then again, if you say it started using more than before, then yeah not too good I'd think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malvic Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I was following this thread as I too was getting a misfire on cylinder 2. I had a compression/leak down test and plugs replaced. They found the cause; a tear in the bottom seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Trendz Inc. Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 mine is an exhaust valve. car is parked until i either do it myself or take it to a garage. parts have all been ordered. Mine was cyl 1 with 60ish psi compression and 50% leakdown, all other cylinder were 136-140psi and 2-3% leakdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Do you know if the valve is really burnt? Could be a tight clearance issue. I suffered from this twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal2You Posted February 29, 2016 Author Share Posted February 29, 2016 So I took it to a dealership and got the news. Cylinders 2 and 4 were both misfiring even though only 2 showed in the codes. (The first shop said this too, I didn't know that was possible). They inspected the timing, compression tested, and checked the valves on that side. The valves are "tight" and the compression is a bit low all around. Cylinders 1, 2, 3 at about 120 and cylinder 4 at 125. They don't think the compression being a bit low is the problem, they think it is the valves. So they suggest tearing down the engine to inspect it. If the valves on the other side are fine then it will be about $4,300 out the door with diagnostics and everything. If the other side needs a new head and valves too then it would be about $5,300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnusonsubie Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 You probably don't need new head castings unless you cracked them. You could probably get away with taking the head off and just replacing valve buckets and then lapping in the valve seats as long as your valves aren't burnt. 2005 Vader Wagon Material Tests on Ringland Failure Piston I should have held off and purchased a wagon instead of the spec.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 You'll want to have a valve job on both heads. If they pull the engine to do that, have them install the APR head studs. The machine shop will tell you what needs to be done to the heads. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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