Got a brochure and I'm a bit disappointed...

[Tin_pusher]

[quote] Trinkets are nice but this is what it's all about IMO [/quote] I must disagree. When you start pushing $30k plus for a car, people expect certain "trinkets." If you want all out performance then peopl should buy the WRX. The loaded Legacy IMO is being marketed as an alternative to Lexus, Acura or Audi. And as such certain luxuries will be expected. Most people that buy performance cars care more about the day to day civility of the car, and not all out performance.

[PPower]

[quote name='Tin_pusher'][quote]Uh, not that I'm into bubble bursting, but the odds that Subaru is monitoring this site are infinitesimal. The odds that they will react to anything written here are even smaller [/quote] Sorry, but you are wrong. There are quite a few companies that corportations pay big bucks to to find out what people are saying, and what they want. Be it cars, music, clothes etc. You'd be foolish not to. There are already 113 members here in a few short weeks. If even half of them buy a Legacy you are talking over 1.5 million $$.[/quote] If you want to be heard, go to [url]www.edmunds.com[/url] and participate in chats there. A Subaru staff person from product planning is active on there, and that is probably the only place where comments are really monitored. Because of sheer size, nasioc may have some worth if they want to check on the enthusiasts opinions. However, most people participating in these forums are far from the average buyer. Edmunds has users who are much closer to the "norm".

[SUBE555]

One comment I didn't see noticed in this thread (or I skipped over) is that the details are to bring people in first to look at the car, the basicas of it. The option packs are the final details to be nailed down, and we'll see how they do that, but in case you didn't notice, those details, are just that, details, and very few are given in any aspect of the car. Right down to the weight I have yet to see final specs on that even. Preston is very right on the Edmunds.com deal. That is the board they officially use to gauge interest. Most other boards are just for entertainment as I was told by a rep. If you have questions, comments, concerns for SOA, please go to their site and email them or get out the word processor and printer and type one out. I have gotten good responses on the email end, therefore need not go to the other step. The only real option that was of interest to me was the HIDs as I've been trying to find a light with the intensity I desire, Silverstars have nice output, last set: est 11 months. Now onto trying Sylvania XVs. I love the HIDs in my buddys STi, but a good set of high-output projectors would do hopefully.

[gtguy]

[quote name='Tin_pusher'][quote]Uh, not that I'm into bubble bursting, but the odds that Subaru is monitoring this site are infinitesimal. The odds that they will react to anything written here are even smaller [/quote] Sorry, but you are wrong. There are quite a few companies that corportations pay big bucks to to find out what people are saying, and what they want. Be it cars, music, clothes etc. You'd be foolish not to. There are already 113 members here in a few short weeks. If even half of them buy a Legacy you are talking over 1.5 million $$.[/quote] Subaru has only just begun to monitor (sort of) NASIOC, a much older, significantly larger site. Like it or not, we (hairy-chested enthusiasts) aren't the people on whom Subaru is relying upon to reach its sales goals of 250,000 cars (across all lines) per annum. We are, for the most part, already Subaru owners, which means that selling to us is simply cannibalizing from other Subaru sales, rather than reaching the conquest customer, a move-over buyer from another marque. I know it's easy to think that places like this matter, and they do to the participants, but a place such as this one, while fun, has about as much chance of influencing SOA and the Legacy future design as I have of being able to fly to the moon, assisted by bean burritos. :lol: Kevin

[Deer Killer]

Steering wheel instruments lit up? That's just a dumb idea. The point of the steering wheel buttons is so that you can do things by feel without looking. There's no need to light up the interior like a christmas tree (i.e. the new TL). I'd like to see the road at night. But I'm glad it's at least mentioned. All the USDM photo's I've seen have no steering wheel controls at all. Unless you're just talking about the stalks.

[Tin_pusher]

[quote]That's just a dumb idea. [/quote] Actually it's not a dumb idea, it's a safe idea and almost all cars over 25k have them. These aren't bright lights, they just help you to see what you are doing instead of fumbling around in the dark to turn on the cruise, or roll the window up. It's a cheap omission in a car that costs $30k. [quote]The point of the steering wheel buttons is so that you can do things by feel without looking.[/quote] Well maybe you work with Helen Keller, or have a guide dog but I generally like to see things that I want to adjust. By your logic nothing inside the car should be lit. You know where the stereo is right? No need to light that. You know where the climate control is, so no need to light that since you can just feel around for it until you guess what temp you want. I think you get the point.

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='Tin_pusher'] Actually it's not a dumb idea, it's a safe idea and almost all cars over 25k have them. These aren't bright lights, they just help you to see what you are doing instead of fumbling around in the dark to turn on the cruise, or roll the window up. It's a cheap omission in a car that costs $30k. [/quote] So do you think you will learn where the controls are after a few days? weeks? years? never? After the first day or so I wouldn't need to look anymore, and I wouldn't want to. [quote][quote]The point of the steering wheel buttons is so that you can do things by feel without looking.[/quote] Well maybe you work with Helen Keller, or have a guide dog but I generally like to see things that I want to adjust. By your logic nothing inside the car should be lit. You know where the stereo is right? No need to light that. You know where the climate control is, so no need to light that since you can just feel around for it until you guess what temp you want. I think you get the point.[/quote] Well, in the perfect interior yes. This is what the king of interiors - audi - does. They have a team devoted to such pursuits [url]http://www.audiworld.com/news/02/haptics/content.shtml[/url] Here you see your picture of masculine helen keller: [url]http://www.audiworld.com/news/02/haptics/content2.shtml[/url] Really, When's the last time you looked to find the turn signal stalk and then read the text or the arrows indication which way to push it in order to activate turn signals? If I got in the passenger seat and I saw you doing that, I'd assume you've been either living in a hole for most of you life, or are severely mentally retarded. This reminds me of a story, there was a kid that went to my high school that was in the "special" class. However he did get a license and a car, and one day he wrapped it around a tree - but for our comedic benefit there was a passenger who recalls the situation as: The windows were fogged up, so he bent over and looked real close at the center console "Gotta turn on da defogga!" BAM! Well for the next 2-3 years no window could ever get fogged up in my car pool without someone saying "Gotta turn on da defogga!" (You imagine the appropriate voice)

[Tin_pusher]

[quote]If I got in the passenger seat and I saw you doing that, I'd assume you've been either living in a hole for most of you life, or are severely mentally retarded. [/quote] You've been here for 5 minutes and you are calling me retarded. Pretty damn sad. Is it possible for you to engage in a debate without resulting to name calling? [quote]Really, When's the last time you looked to find the turn signal stalk and then read the text or the arrows indication which way to push it in order to activate turn signals? [/quote] Well here's a keen observation for you. The turn signals on all U.S. vehicles are in the same place and operate the same way. The window switches and cruise control are not standardized. [quote]This reminds me of a story, there was a kid that went to my high school that was in the "special" class. However he did get a license and a car, and one day he wrapped it around a tree - but for our comedic benefit there was a passenger who recalls the situation as: The windows were fogged up, so he bent over and looked real close at the center console "Gotta turn on da defogga!" BAM [/quote] Thanks for that truly pertinent heartwarming story, it brought a tear to my eye.

[gtguy]

[quote name='Deer Killer']All the USDM photo's I've seen have no steering wheel controls at all. Unless you're just talking about the stalks.[/quote] That's what I thought... As far as the flaming and bickering, let's leave that stuff for NASIOC, if we could, please. This site has been, even when members disagree, positive and congenial. Flaming and name-calling is, as a matter of face, why many of us came to this site from NASIOC. Just my .02... Kevin

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='Tin_pusher'][quote]If I got in the passenger seat and I saw you doing that, I'd assume you've been either living in a hole for most of you life, or are severely mentally retarded. [/quote] You've been here for 5 minutes and you are calling me retarded. Pretty damn sad. Is it possible for you to engage in a debate without resulting to name calling? [/quote] I don't need to, because if you properly read my post, I didn't.

[Dr. Zevil]

[quote name='gtguy'][quote name='Deer Killer']All the USDM photo's I've seen have no steering wheel controls at all. Unless you're just talking about the stalks.[/quote] That's what I thought... As far as the flaming and bickering, let's leave that stuff for NASIOC, if we could, please. This site has been, even when members disagree, positive and congenial. Flaming and name-calling is, as a matter of face, why many of us came to this site from NASIOC. Just my .02... Kevin[/quote] I agree. There is no reason to be talking about retards and such. Everyone has an opinion. Personally I think that if there were controls on the wheel that they should have a subtle backlight. Nothing that "lights up the cabin" but enough that if you weren't familiar with the car that you could negotiate the controls. It's not so much about when you drive the car, but when others drive that is the issue I think.

[AMT4SWA]

JANUARY 22nd, 2004...OUR FIRST OFFICIAL SPAT!!! :o This took much longer then I thought it would take... :P I do know that I like the steering wheel buttons to be lighted, but it is not something I need to operate the car...just for the looks of it is my only reason. If they are lit properly and the design is good, then the steering wheel lighting can add a very sophisticated up-scale look to an interior.

[gtguy]

Alright, let's end this. I'm looking at my '05 Legacy brochure, and the steering wheel on the MT version has no, I repeat, no controls of any kind on the steering wheel. There is a horn, but that's a big ol' button that comprises the center of the steering wheel. Presumably, that wouldn't need any lighting. :lol: Now can we all go back to being friends again, because in the figurative sense, we are ALL retards, for getting this freaked out/geeked up/giddy with anticipation about a car. :D :lol: Kevin

[AMT4SWA]

Yes...it is the 5 spd AT models that have the "UP" and "Down" + or - symbols on the steering wheel for "SportShift" manual shifting. Volume controls and maybe SEEK/SCAN features will come with the steering wheels in the future with maybe a highline 3.0L H6 edition.

[Tin_pusher]

[quote]I don't need to, because if you properly read my post, I didn't.[/quote] Apology accepted. :) Can I have a hug?

[gtguy]

[quote name='AMT4SWA']Yes...it is the 5 spd AT models that have the "UP" and "Down" + or - symbols on the steering wheel for "SportShift" manual shifting. Volume controls and maybe SEEK/SCAN features will come with the steering wheels in the future with maybe a highline 3.0L H6 edition.[/quote] I can see the "Up" or "Down" arrows on the steering wheel for AT versions of the GT. I cannot, however, see radio controls being on the steering wheel. But maybe I'm just crazy. Once those brand managers get to work... :lol: The other thing is, until we know for a fact that the shifting controls on the steering wheel are not backlit, as in 'I've sat in one and they are not backlit," let's all agree to chill, yes? Kevin

[PPower]

[quote name='gtguy']in the figurative sense, we are ALL retards, for getting this freaked out/geeked up/giddy with anticipation about a car. :D :lol: Kevin[/quote] On top of that, "Subaru" isn't a common car line to get so geeked up about either. :lol: We are but retards in the midst of car geeks.

[SUBE555]

OOOO, an Ubergeek! I wanna be one of dos guys! :P What other company offers AWD with performance and fun to drive with nicely laid out decent interiors for such a good value? Noone! Its the best value on the market as far as I'm concerned when looking at AWD, a decent price, a drivers car, (an nice sized aftermarket ;) ), and more.

[team23jordan]

[quote name='Tin_pusher'][quote]That's just a dumb idea. [/quote] Actually it's not a dumb idea, it's a safe idea and almost all cars over 25k have them. These aren't bright lights, they just help you to see what you are doing instead of fumbling around in the dark to turn on the cruise, or roll the window up. It's a cheap omission in a car that costs $30k. [quote]The point of the steering wheel buttons is so that you can do things by feel without looking.[/quote] Well maybe you work with Helen Keller, or have a guide dog but I generally like to see things that I want to adjust. By your logic nothing inside the car should be lit. You know where the stereo is right? No need to light that. You know where the climate control is, so no need to light that since you can just feel around for it until you guess what temp you want. I think you get the point.[/quote] my mom's lincoln aviator has that its really helps a lot when i'm driving at night time and try to turn the volumn up or down or turn on heat or stuff like that its helpful and a lot of people who has been in my car liked it a lot

[team23jordan]

tin pusher you gotta check out the northwest region :) and do you know any dealer in OR that usually sells subaru for little bit over invoice??

[Tin_pusher]

Okay Jordan, I'll stop by there too. I've never owned a Subuaru, I have a Ford Explorer right now. When I start seriously looking I'll let ya know.

[Kuth678]

I think a lot of people, including me, may not want HIDs. Yeah they're brighter, but the sharp cutoff of light can be dangerous. You go down a hill and you're 100% blind to anything on the up side when your lights are below it. Halogens, while dimmer, tend to have less of a sharp cut off. And those things are VERY bright. I've been blinded by them many times when a car that has them is coming at me. Just my opinion. Feel free to flame ;)

[SUBE555]

Personally I like the HIDs with the brighter/different light. I've learned how to deal with them just fine, just do what they taught us in drivers ed years back, watch the line on your right and you're fine. Having it an OPTION isn't all that bad.

[GBY]

[quote name='Kuth678']I think a lot of people, including me, may not want HIDs. Yeah they're brighter, but the sharp cutoff of light can be dangerous. You go down a hill and you're 100% blind to anything on the up side when your lights are below it. Halogens, while dimmer, tend to have less of a sharp cut off. And those things are VERY bright. I've been blinded by them many times when a car that has them is coming at me. Just my opinion. Feel free to flame ;)[/quote] I agree, IMO a good halogen set-up is all that's really required, HID's have become a status symbol letting other people know that you're in an expensive car at nighttime.

[team23jordan]

i think reason why legacy doesn't have HID is that HID is gonna be illegal next year(?) that's what i heard from my friends i think subaru doesn't wanna deal with it.... it will be AWESOME if they do have HID but if they dont...they can officially lick my butt is JDM version have HID??