MaStaMooN Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 Did the guy just think it is dirty valves, or did he specifically say air is escaping from the exhaust and/or intake valves? They didn't do any investigation on where the air was going afaik.. just did the test and gave me the numbers. I believe the tech wrote on the paper, something like "might be leaking from valves or piston" and that's what the service adviser told me as he was ringing me up. Im sure at that point they wanted me to say, well lets find out whats actually wrong. But I couldnt leave my car there any longer. They had it for 9 days to do a basic list of items, so at that point I was just itching to get the hell out of there. Jon - vBGarage Profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Huh. That's a bit dumb IMO to do a leakdown test and not carefully report where it is leaking from. Anyway. Just keep an eye on how the car is performing, and monitor roughness in that cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaStaMooN Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 Huh. That's a bit dumb IMO to do a leakdown test and not carefully report where it is leaking from. Anyway. Just keep an eye on how the car is performing, and monitor roughness in that cylinder. Do most leak down tests include a diagnosis without an extra charge? Im sure they would have done it, but have a feeling it would include an extra 100 dollar diagnosis fee. If they should include a diagnosis, ill hammer them for it when I bring my car back for the 2nd leakdown (well technically first I guess) test in a few weeks or something. Jon - vBGarage Profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I am not sure. But the purpose of the leakdown, as far as I understand, is twofold: -report the leakage percentage -report where it is leaking from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPooky_leggy Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I am not sure. But the purpose of the leakdown, as far as I understand, is twofold: -report the leakage percentage -report where it is leaking from An internal combustion engine makes power by first drawing air and fuel into the combustion chamber. Next is the compression of the mixture and the addition of a spark. The harnessing of the resulting contained explosion is ultimately what powers the car. As an engine gets on in miles, the containment of this power can be lost due to piston ring, valve or cylinder wall wear. Engine performance will suffer as a result. Pressure reading A common test of an engine’s ability to compress the air-fuel mixture is an engine compression test. A pressure gauge is connected in place of the spark plug. The engine is then cranked to create a pressure reading. A compression test is a good way to check the engine’s ability to create pressure. The gauge reads the positive pressure created by the cylinder. Loss reading An engine leakdown test is a compression test in reverse. Instead of measuring the engine’s ability to create pressure, compressed air is introduced into the cylinder through the spark plug hole. One gauge on the tester measures the pressure of the air entering the cylinder and the other measures the percentage of the air escaping (or leaking) from the cylinder. The loss percentage will indicate the condition of the cylinder and overall condition of the engine. Top dead center Before sending air into the engine, the cylinder being tested must be placed at Top Dead Center (TDC). The piston must be at the top of its travel. The intake and exhaust valves must be closed. When the air is compressed into the cylinder, the leakdown tester will measure any loss of air escaping past valves or piston rings. If the cylinder is not at TDC, air escaping past an open valve will give a false reading. Reading results No engine will have perfect sealing with 0 percent loss. Five to 10 percent loss indicates an engine in great to good running order. An engine between 10 and 20 percent can still run OK, but it’ll be time to keep an eye (or ear) on things. Above 20 percent loss and it may be time for a teardown and rebuild. Thirty percent? Major problems. The percent of leakage should also be consistent across the cylinders. Any great differences indicate a problem in that cylinder. Hearing problems Beyond getting an overall picture of engine condition, the engine leakdown test is an excellent way to pinpoint where problems are before tearing down the engine. Listening for where the air is escaping by ear can isolate the problem. Intake valve : Air whistling out of the intake, carburetor or throttle body indicates a leak at the intake valve. Exhaust valve : Air heard hissing out of the tailpipe, turbocharger or exhaust manifold means an exhaust valve leak. Piston rings : Whistling or hissing out of the PCV valve, oil filler cap hole or dipstick tube means the air is pushing past the rings. Suspect ring or cylinder wall wear. Head gasket : Air bubbles in engine coolant seen at the radiator filler cap could mean air escaping into the coolant past the head gasket. Cracked cylinder head : Bubbles in coolant or coolant being pushed up out of the radiator neck can also indicate cracks in the cylinder head or cylinder walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doobaruGT Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 FWIW, they're doing a $375 credit for a returned V2 with purchase of a V3 - I got all excited when I read this! I thought there as some special promo I missed. Turns out it's $325. Not that $50 is all that much more. Updated parts list since original part-out here. Original Full part-out of my LGT HERE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Do most leak down tests include a diagnosis without an extra charge? Im sure they would have done it, but have a feeling it would include an extra 100 dollar diagnosis fee. If they should include a diagnosis, ill hammer them for it when I bring my car back for the 2nd leakdown (well technically first I guess) test in a few weeks or something. How far are you from Mike's guy's at www.AZPinstalls.com ? If your not that far and still feel the need to have another test done even though the car runs fine...may be have them check it out. How dose the car feel on a 3rd gear pull from 2500-6000rpm at WOT ? dose it shutter of miss a beat ? Is your temp gauge above half way ? How dose the car feel at 1/2 -3/4 throttle in 2nd, 3rd or 4rd gear ? 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaStaMooN Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 How far are you from Mike's guy's at www.AZPinstalls.com ? If your not that far and still feel the need to have another test done even though the car runs fine...may be have them check it out. How dose the car feel on a 3rd gear pull from 2500-6000rpm at WOT ? dose it shutter of miss a beat ? Is your temp gauge above half way ? How dose the car feel at 1/2 -3/4 throttle in 2nd, 3rd or 4rd gear ? Im not close enough to 'stop by' but I have used them before. Car runs great afaict.. I can try that scenario tonight on my way home and report back. Ive never noticed any oddities in the cars performance, but something that has always happened is on a run like that.. ill get a pretty strong odor of exhaust. Ive checked every exhaust bit I can and still havent found any leaks.. and the car has been in the shop and nobody has mentioned an exhaust leak either. I always tell my wife "thats the smell of performance" Temp gauge is always dead center or close to it. I do believe my turbo might have 'bad seals' syndrome though. My overflow goes empty often and goes cloudy green after I put more coolant in it. Never notice any froth or anything during oilchanges though so I dont think its mixing oil/coolant and I dont have smoke out of the tail pipe (visible to me anyway). Throttle response is fine as long as im in the correct gear. Jon - vBGarage Profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heiche Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Regarding the exhaust odor in the cabin, you might want to look at this post regarding air extractors letting in exhaust. Regarding coolant loss, that's a bit unusual (assuming it's not leaking puddles). You might consider doing an HC test to see if combustion gases are present in the cooling system. BtSsm - Android app/Bluetooth adapter. LV, logging, gauges and more. For 05-14 Legacy (GT, 2.5, 3.0, 3.6), 02-14 WRX, 04-14 STi, 04-14 FXT, 05-09 OBXT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaStaMooN Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 Regarding the exhaust odor in the cabin, you might want to look at this post regarding air extractors letting in exhaust. Regarding coolant loss, that's a bit unusual (assuming it's not leaking puddles). You might consider doing an HC test to see if combustion gases are present in the cooling system. Wow, thanks for the link.. Ill have to check it out. I do have a port cut in my rear deck (well removed the block off plate) to let bass in.. so its entirely possible the fumes could be finding their way back in that way. No leaks from what I can see/smell. Ill have to pick up one of those testers. I didnt think headgasket failure was an issue on these cars anymore. Jon - vBGarage Profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heiche Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Wow, thanks for the link.. Ill have to check it out. I do have a port cut in my rear deck (well removed the block off plate) to let bass in.. so its entirely possible the fumes could be finding their way back in that way. Yeah, definitely worth a look.. only takes 5 mins to check it out to see if the flaps aren't seating properly. Even in my sedan, with no extra hole cut in the rear deck like yours, the exhaust smell still gets through this way. No leaks from what I can see/smell. Ill have to pick up one of those testers. I didnt think headgasket failure was an issue on these cars anymore. Yeah, that's why it's a bit unusual. But it does happen sometimes, and might be worth a check if you're losing coolant. BtSsm - Android app/Bluetooth adapter. LV, logging, gauges and more. For 05-14 Legacy (GT, 2.5, 3.0, 3.6), 02-14 WRX, 04-14 STi, 04-14 FXT, 05-09 OBXT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Any decent repair shop will have a HC tester, only takes them a minute to pass it over the radiator. Don't buy one. Call around and find out which shop has one. Have you burped the coolant system ? Jack up the right front corner, take off the cap from the turbo tank, start the engine, let it warm up so the T'stat opens, watch for bubbles in the tank, you may want to squeeze the radiator hose, be careful not to squeeze to much, you can push coolant out of the tank. It will burn off but just go slowly. But you said the temp gauge never moves...you should not have air in there. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaStaMooN Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 How far are you from Mike's guy's at www.AZPinstalls.com ? If your not that far and still feel the need to have another test done even though the car runs fine...may be have them check it out. How dose the car feel on a 3rd gear pull from 2500-6000rpm at WOT ? dose it shutter of miss a beat ? Is your temp gauge above half way ? How dose the car feel at 1/2 -3/4 throttle in 2nd, 3rd or 4rd gear ? Gave it a romp this afternoon, 2k to redline, and nothing to report. Runs good, sounds good.. Doesnt smell all that great but had all the windows open so to be expected. Jon - vBGarage Profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Unless you normally take the engine into the higher rpms to get everything hot and cleaned out, I'll bet your going to get some smells. Neither of my cars have ever had any smells like some people talk about. My wagon is catless and the Spec has a cat in the DP. If the air is calm and I back into a parking spot at work I can sometimes smell exhaust but that's to be expected. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaStaMooN Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 Update: So I brought the car in to have the radiator replaced with a Koyo OEM replacement and at the same time had another compression & leak-down test done as the results last time were poor and they were offering another leak-down test for 'free' because they didn't perform on all cylinders last time. The results were: 1 - 127 psi / 0% Leak 2 - 130 psi / 0% Leak 3 - 127 psi / 0% Leak 4 - 129 psi / 0% Leak When you compare these results to the results 9 months ago in the OP, something seems funky. I'm not sure if they weren't done properly the first time or done at all or what. The car drives more like the results above than the results in the OP so I'm hoping these are the correct specs. Not that the results are fantastic, but at least they are consistent. I also had this test redone because im still battling some excessive oil loss. I am losing about a quart of oil every 800-1000 miles. They said they pulled the intercooler off to do the compression test and didnt notice any issues with oil in there, noticed no leaks and there is no smoke. So where is it going? Was thinking of having a catchcan installed just to see if its in the pcv system or elsewhere, but cant through that kinda coin at my car right now. Im also having some weird vibration around 2k rpm.. They quickly checked this out (didnt want to pay a diagnosis fee at the moment) and they said they were able to reproduce it and think its likely an unbalanced clutch/flywheel issue. I had this clutch (Competition Clutch stage 2 with their matching steel flywheel ) installed about 9k miles ago and didn't have this problem right from the get go. Honestly Im done with aftermarket clutches on this car.. back to OEM for me when this one bites the dust. Jon - vBGarage Profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doobaruGT Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Update: So I brought the car in to have the radiator replaced with a Koyo OEM replacement and at the same time had another compression & leak-down test done as the results last time were poor and they were offering another leak-down test for 'free' because they didn't perform on all cylinders last time. The results were: 1 - 127 psi / 0% Leak 2 - 130 psi / 0% Leak 3 - 127 psi / 0% Leak 4 - 129 psi / 0% Leak When you compare these results to the results 9 months ago in the OP, something seems funky. I'm not sure if they weren't done properly the first time or done at all or what. The car drives more like the results above than the results in the OP so I'm hoping these are the correct specs. Not that the results are fantastic, but at least they are consistent. I also had this test redone because im still battling some excessive oil loss. I am losing about a quart of oil every 800-1000 miles. They said they pulled the intercooler off to do the compression test and didnt notice any issues with oil in there, noticed no leaks and there is no smoke. So where is it going? Was thinking of having a catchcan installed just to see if its in the pcv system or elsewhere, but cant through that kinda coin at my car right now. Im also having some weird vibration around 2k rpm.. They quickly checked this out (didnt want to pay a diagnosis fee at the moment) and they said they were able to reproduce it and think its likely an unbalanced clutch/flywheel issue. I had this clutch (Competition Clutch stage 2 with their matching steel flywheel ) installed about 9k miles ago and didn't have this problem right from the get go. Honestly Im done with aftermarket clutches on this car.. back to OEM for me when this one bites the dust. It's pretty cheap to replace the PCV instead of a catch can. IIRC they're about $40 for the whole assembly and recommended interval is something like 40k miles. I have about the same consumption as you do. At least start cheap and then graduate to more complicated remedies. I'm curious to see if that helps since I'm combating similar issues. I might do my pcv as well since it's so cheap. I'll pull mine and see if I get the rattle or not. That should be telling. Thinking out loud, I wonder if you could scope the inlet and see oil residue from the PCV barb? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Updated parts list since original part-out here. Original Full part-out of my LGT HERE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Your vibration could come from a stiff u-joint on your drive shaft, especially if it shows up under load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaStaMooN Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 It's pretty cheap to replace the PCV instead of a catch can. IIRC they're about $40 for the whole assembly and recommended interval is something like 40k miles. I have about the same consumption as you do. At least start cheap and then graduate to more complicated remedies. I'm curious to see if that helps since I'm combating similar issues. I might do my pcv as well since it's so cheap. I'll pull mine and see if I get the rattle or not. That should be telling. Thinking out loud, I wonder if you could scope the inlet and see oil residue from the PCV barb? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I had the PCV replaced at 94k miles (22k miles ago). I would think if its stuck open/close you would see signs of such, like a oil soaked intercooler and if its stuck shut, there should be 0 oil missing. I figure with throwing a quart in ever 3 fill ups or so at least it helps with my oil change interval. It just sucks pissing through Rotella T6 like this. Jon - vBGarage Profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaStaMooN Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 Your vibration could come from a stiff u-joint on your drive shaft, especially if it shows up under load. It happens with and without load. With the car parked and the hood popped, you can watch the top of the engine move at around 2k rpm and then smooth out again as you go higher. While driving it feels like you have a flat tire almost (not as violent/noisey) but clears up above like 2.5k. I wonder if a bad MAF or something could cause this? It feels a little less noticeable since the shop pulled the battery cable to do the other work on the car, so maybe it was something learned/correction for something else going bad? I dont think its a vacuum leak, vacuum and boost readings seem ok.. no idling/starting/stalling issues. Jon - vBGarage Profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doobaruGT Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I had the PCV replaced at 94k miles (22k miles ago). I would think if its stuck open/close you would see signs of such, like a oil soaked intercooler and if its stuck shut, there should be 0 oil missing. I figure with throwing a quart in ever 3 fill ups or so at least it helps with my oil change interval. It just sucks pissing through Rotella T6 like this. Then I would question the test results. It has to be going somewhere, right? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Updated parts list since original part-out here. Original Full part-out of my LGT HERE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 It happens with and without load. With the car parked and the hood popped, you can watch the top of the engine move at around 2k rpm and then smooth out again as you go higher. While driving it feels like you have a flat tire almost (not as violent/noisey) but clears up above like 2.5k. I wonder if a bad MAF or something could cause this? It feels a little less noticeable since the shop pulled the battery cable to do the other work on the car, so maybe it was something learned/correction for something else going bad? I dont think its a vacuum leak, vacuum and boost readings seem ok.. no idling/starting/stalling issues. mmh. I see. Can you log? Do you own the btssm app? Also, regarding your leakdown, I've never seen anyone with 0% leakdown. I believe all engines leak a bit. In any case though, it is good that compression numbers are consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaStaMooN Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 mmh. I see. Can you log? Do you own the btssm app? Also, regarding your leakdown, I've never seen anyone with 0% leakdown. I believe all engines leak a bit. In any case though, it is good that compression numbers are consistent. No I dont own that app, but do own torque.. doubt that would work for logging. I think my brother has a tatrix cable, maybe I can do it via laptop. Jon - vBGarage Profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Yeah, torque won't do what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeleodee Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 0% leakdown is odd. Compression looks good and the car is running good so I would say you're engine is still healthy for its age. I remember last year when I was getting ready to turn the boost up, I did a compression test on my vehicle. I went and bought a new tester, warmed the engine, removed the plugs and tested. 1-59 2-60 3-60 4-61 After some deliberation, I decided before tearing into a fine running engine and rebuilding, I'd try my buddy's tester. Wouldn't you know, the cold engine came back 119-121psi between all cylinders. I took the tester back for a full refund. Engine is still running great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 0% leakdown is odd. Compression looks good and the car is running good so I would say you're engine is still healthy for its age. I remember last year when I was getting ready to turn the boost up, I did a compression test on my vehicle. I went and bought a new tester, warmed the engine, removed the plugs and tested. 1-59 2-60 3-60 4-61 After some deliberation, I decided before tearing into a fine running engine and rebuilding, I'd try my buddy's tester. Wouldn't you know, the cold engine came back 119-121psi between all cylinders. I took the tester back for a full refund. Engine is still running great. Then again, your initial numbers were consistent across the board. It is just that your tester had a fairly large negative bias :/. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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