Suspension Questions

[Scheer]

I have no idea when it comes to suspension... so likely a few dumb questions here. The only suspension I've ever touched in the past was on my Jeep, where I did a lift... an all in one package, just bolt and go.

 

Bought a 2006 Legacy GT about 6 months ago, and comparing it to the 04 Grand Prix GTP Comp G I had in college it rides like complete crap. Honestly, I'm pretty sure my wife's Enclave corners better than this does... haha. The car has 140k miles on it, so I'm sure its worn out, I'm just not sure how far I need to go in replacing things.

 

I'm sure that struts are needed, but will I need new springs as well? I don't have a history on the car, but I'm fairly sure nothing has been replaced in a while, if ever at all.

 

As for brand/part choice, I'm not looking for high performance/cost parts, but is there a sweet spot between Autozone parts and Koni that is worth the money?

 

I do not want it to sit any lower than stock, I drive quite a bit of nasty gravel roads. This isn't a track/ race car to me, just a toy for the weekends. I'm alright with some road feedback, but do not want something that is going to break my back. Basically looking for the Goldilocks suspension if that makes sense...

 

Also figure while I am at it I may as well go for sway bars if it is a good idea. The one thing holding me back was reading that they will reduce grip a bit, and even with my nearly brand new Continental Extreme Contact DWS I seem to relatively slide all over the place in snow. Are sway bars going to make it even worse?

[apexi]

I'm a suspension newbie too, but I replaced my struts a few months ago, and it made a substantial improvement in handling.

 

You do not need to buy new springs. I went with KYB GR-2 / Excel-G struts, which I've heard are basically the same as OEM struts. Their ride is a little harsh, but I'm use to it since the car has always driven that way. I'm not sure what to recommend if you want something that rides a little more comfortable.

 

You should replace your strut mounts as well. From what I've read you definitely should replace the fronts while you're doing the job, while the rears you might be able to get away with not replacing. The front strut mounts have a bearing in them, while the rears do not. Subaru is the only one I could find that makes front strut mounts for my car, but KYB makes rear strut mounts. So for $21, I decided to replace my rear strut mounts as well with KYB's.

 

I went all out when I did my strut job, replaced all the lock nuts, bolts, washers, the works. If your strut setup is the same as mine, for the front there are 3 lock nuts at the top of each strut that are visible from the engine bay, and I believe both of the bottom nuts on the struts are lock nuts as well. Careful with the top strut bolt at the base of the strut, that's the bolt that adjusts your camber, so you want to install it in the exact position as it was removed.

 

For the rears, there were two lock nuts on top inside the car for each strut, and one large bolt/washer/lock nut at the bottom of the strut.

 

I can't really say much about the sway bar, it looks like the LGT has a slightly bigger say bar than my car, and I'm not sure how the LGT handles. Since you said you're not too familiar with the suspension on these cars, I'm gonna throw out extra info that you might already know.

 

There are two end links that connect the ends of the sway bar to the cars front lower control arms. From what I understand, the end links can also have an impact on the handling of the car, since they look like barbells, and the shaft might be able to flex. Below is a picture of one of the front end links, connecting the sway bar to the lower control arm.

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/attachments/wheels-tires-brakes-suspension/39858d1372467458-2007-2-5-basic-front-moog-endlink-qs-endlinkreplacement006.jpg

 

In your shoes, I would replace the struts first, and see how the car handles after that before replacing the sway bar(s). If you do replace your front sway bar, I would highly suggest replacing your end links as well. Living in New England, my stock end links were a nightmare to remove. I went with ac delco professional end links which are the same as raybestos professional end links, because with the way they are designed, they shouldn't be hard to replace no matter how rusty they get.

[MrTris]

It handles fine, considering. Biggest improvement you can make to your car is honing your skills as a driver.

[Scheer]

It handles fine, considering. Biggest improvement you can make to your car is honing your skills as a driver.

 

I'm not looking to recreate fast and furious or whatever, just looking for a nice driving car that compares at least to every other car I've ever driven. I likely picked a bad car in the OP to compare it to as it was sort of produced to handle good, but the Legacy is noticeably worse handling than my 09 Sierra pickup that is leveled with 33" tires. Better?

 

If it bounces like a boat over open water when driving down the highway, how am I supposed to compensate for that as a driver?

 

 

SNIP

 

Thank you much for the info, gives me a great starting point.

[boxman]

At 140k miles you'll likely want to replace the struts & mounting hardware for both front and rear, the front lower control arm bushings, ball joints, swaybar endlinks & bushings and maybe both inner and outter tie rods. The springs will probably be just fine. KYB was the OEM for the non-Spec B LGT so if all you're looking for is OEM then they'll be the closest. You'll want to also assess whether any of your rear suspension bushings are perished enough to warrant replacing.

[StoplightAssassin]

Also figure while I am at it I may as well go for sway bars if it is a good idea. The one thing holding me back was reading that they will reduce grip a bit, and even with my nearly brand new Continental Extreme Contact DWS I seem to relatively slide all over the place in snow. Are sway bars going to make it even worse?

 

You found out what I found out last winter. The DWS needs the "S" removed from its name. I'm sure your shocks are worn out at 140k, but the DWS will make the car feel really floaty due to the soft sidewalls. Try upping the pressures to around 38 -40 psi.

 

Try that first before you do anything else to see if that makes anything better.

[Scheer]

You found out what I found out last winter. The DWS needs the "S" removed from its name. I'm sure your shocks are worn out at 140k, but the DWS will make the car feel really floaty due to the soft sidewalls. Try upping the pressures to around 38 -40 psi.

 

Try that first before you do anything else to see if that makes anything better.

 

Yeah I had read about running 40 PSI in them and gave it a shot, unfortunately it didn't make much of a difference.

[StoplightAssassin]

Yeah I had read about running 40 PSI in them and gave it a shot, unfortunately it didn't make much of a difference.

 

Then definitely get a new set of shocks. A great thing about Konis is that they're guaranteed for life...so free rebuilds when you need them.

 

You could also step up to a coilover type spring which come in many lengths and rates that you can fine tune, so you won't lose any ride height. The downside is you'll need to use custom spring perches. At this point with springs, perches, and shocks, we're talking around $1200+ for parts.

[Leviman]

A rear sway bar can really balance the car out. That only come into play when you get to the limit though. Subarus are very understeer happy, a bigger rear sway can balance that out. If you want better ride as well as handling, bilsteins are expensive but nice. I love mine.

[Sk8erOrd]

I'm in the same boat as the OP. Can you swap to a spec.b type suspension fairy easily or will it be a lot more work/expense?

[R15]

I'm in the same boat as the OP. Can you swap to a spec.b type suspension fairy easily or will it be a lot more work/expense?

 

Isn't spec B Bilstien? That is a slightly different setup then the Tokico-style for GT and i but I don't know all the differences, just that they are different top hats and different dampening rates (therefore different load springs?)

[Scheer]

A rear sway bar can really balance the car out. That only come into play when you get to the limit though. Subarus are very understeer happy, a bigger rear sway can balance that out. If you want better ride as well as handling, bilsteins are expensive but nice. I love mine.

 

Then definitely get a new set of shocks. A great thing about Konis is that they're guaranteed for life...so free rebuilds when you need them.

 

You could also step up to a coilover type spring which come in many lengths and rates that you can fine tune, so you won't lose any ride height. The downside is you'll need to use custom spring perches. At this point with springs, perches, and shocks, we're talking around $1200+ for parts.

 

Sounds like a rear sway bar is unnecessary for me as well, I don't drive the car hard, I'd just like for it to feel closer to as it did new. Bilsteins and Konis are both out of my price range as well as being overkill for what I am wanting, I believe. I also don't drive it enough to worry about any sort of guaranty, putting under 300 miles a month on it.

 

Thanks for the info guys.

[mhoran89]

Guys I hate to threadjack, is there a sticky somewhere on how to do struts (replacement)? I am looking at doing KYB GR2s and I can't find too much info. Only found this... http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/spring-swap-walkthrough-tein-h-techs-38873.html?t=38873&highlight=struts

 

Also all of this new "hardware" can I get a list of what I would need? New rubber top hat mounts for sure most likely. What are these "bearings", and is it a good idea to go with new hardware all around? Is it easy to do bushings while I'm in there? Might as well since my ride has 80K and counting (and I drive it really hard). Thanks guys!

[apexi]

Underneath the top lock nut in the center of the front strut mounts (shown in attached picture), there's a bearing built into the upper strut mount. A few pictures can be seen in the link below.

 

http://parts.subaru.com/p/Subaru_2009_Legacy25L-5MT-4WD25I-SEDAN/STRUT-MOUNT-FRONT/49229543/20320AG00A.html

 

It looks like your 2011 uses different upper strut mounts, so your mounts might look a little different. Your new struts should come with a new lock nut to hold the upper strut mount on the strut assembly. As far as what you truly need, that's a tough call. Even after 155k when I did my struts, my front upper strut mounts still seemed ok, the bearing wasn't making any funky noises and it still spun smoothly. I still replaced the front mounts anyways, but it's not the type of thing that you absolutely have to replace if there isn't a problem with it in my opinion.

 

I think the same thing stands true for a lot of the other nuts/bolts that I voluntarily replaced. I've read somewhere that you don't really need to replace any of the locking nuts unless you are able to freely loosen them with your fingers, because at that point they've lost their ability to lock. Your new struts should come with a new locking nut to hold the upper strut mounts onto the strut. That's one of the more important nuts, since it's holding all the energy of the coil spring down.

 

If you're thinking about doing the sway bar bushings I think those can be done at any time, and I don't think it's really easier to do them at the same time as the struts.

 

If you're like me, I like to do as much research as possible before attempting something like this, especially with how dangerous of a job it is. I actually used 3-4 spring compressors on each spring to be extra safe, and also because it was somewhat hard to get the spring compressed enough to completely take pressure off the upper strut mounts. GEE-OTTO did a DIY thread on replacing struts/springs as well.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/oem-suspension-spring-install-guide-206474.html

 

I want to stress though that things could be a little different on your 5th gen legacy, since both the walk through you posted and the one I posted apply to 4th gen legacies.

 

I just want to reiterate that I'm a suspension newbie, so hopefully someone will step in and correct me if they disagree with something.

[mhoran89]

Underneath the top lock nut in the center of the front strut mounts (shown in attached picture), there's a bearing built into the upper strut mount. A few pictures can be seen in the link below.

 

http://parts.subaru.com/p/Subaru_2009_Legacy25L-5MT-4WD25I-SEDAN/STRUT-MOUNT-FRONT/49229543/20320AG00A.html

 

It looks like your 2011 uses different upper strut mounts, so your mounts might look a little different. Your new struts should come with a new lock nut to hold the upper strut mount on the strut assembly. As far as what you truly need, that's a tough call. Even after 155k when I did my struts, my front upper strut mounts still seemed ok, the bearing wasn't making any funky noises and it still spun smoothly. I still replaced the front mounts anyways, but it's not the type of thing that you absolutely have to replace if there isn't a problem with it in my opinion.

 

I think the same thing stands true for a lot of the other nuts/bolts that I voluntarily replaced. I've read somewhere that you don't really need to replace any of the locking nuts unless you are able to freely loosen them with your fingers, because at that point they've lost their ability to lock. Your new struts should come with a new locking nut to hold the upper strut mounts onto the strut. That's one of the more important nuts, since it's holding all the energy of the coil spring down.

 

If you're thinking about doing the sway bar bushings I think those can be done at any time, and I don't think it's really easier to do them at the same time as the struts.

 

If you're like me, I like to do as much research as possible before attempting something like this, especially with how dangerous of a job it is. I actually used 3-4 spring compressors on each spring to be extra safe, and also because it was somewhat hard to get the spring compressed enough to completely take pressure off the upper strut mounts. GEE-OTTO did a DIY thread on replacing struts/springs as well.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/oem-suspension-spring-install-guide-206474.html

 

I want to stress though that things could be a little different on your 5th gen legacy, since both the walk through you posted and the one I posted apply to 4th gen legacies.

 

I just want to reiterate that I'm a suspension newbie, so hopefully someone will step in and correct me if they disagree with something.

 

Thanks man. I doubt I'll need new mounts. I'll see if I can get away with the original ones. I'll be going to a buddy's place in VT, every tool under the sun and more. So plenty of impact wrench muscle will be used. Not my first time working on suspension, brakes, etc...

 

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/ATD-Tools-7585-Master-MacPherson/dp/B000OUW7XE/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1423193128&sr=1-1&keywords=spring+compressor]As far as the spring compressor I will most likely be purchasing this one, seems pretty legit to me.[/ame] And yes I feel as though the worst part will be getting at the rear strut mounts, since I'll have to go digging in the trunk. Thanks for all the help!

[apexi]

The thing that got me on the rears was the orientation of the strut mounts on the rear struts. In order for everything to line up properly the first time, I would make sure the top strut mount is positioned the exact same way as it was on the original strut. The first time I put the strut mount on I kinda eyeballed it, and when the bottom of the rear strut was flush, the two studs at the top wouldn't line up with the holes in the sheet metal. From what I remember, the rear strut mount sits kinda cocked to one side, as shown in the attached picture.

[mhoran89]

I'll be taking on the project in about two weeks, hopefully I'll remember to take plenty of pics. If not I will be sure to let everyone know how it goes. And I'll report back with the ride quality as well, considering it's a long drive home from Vermont to CT.