2.5 block with 2.2 sohc heads?

[Helloreaper1]

Looking to build a little extra na power. My 2.2 block is toast but the heads are good. I was told I can use a 2.5 block with my 2.2 heads and that would boost my power and be a pretty simple swap.

 

What do I need specifically to do all this?

 

I would be rebuilding everything in the motor (bearing, rods, piston, etc) just to make sure its 100% brand new so there wont be issues for a while

[johnegg]

I would be rebuilding everything in the motor (bearing, rods, piston, etc) just to make sure its 100% brand new so there wont be issues for a while

if you are commited to going this far,

you would be better off going with a complete ej25 engine,

rather than a hybrid.

 

the ej25 block with ej22 heads will give you more power than your ej22,

but not more power than the ej25.

 

not to mention that rebuilding a block is expensive.

 

i recommend either a good used ej22 or ej25 replacement engine.

the ej22 will be more reliable,

and the ej25 runs the risk of blowing a head gasket.

 

or if you do not trust used engines from a parts yard,

you could buy a JDM ej25, low mileage engine,

and install it with new head gaskets.

by the time it wears out you will be tired of the car.

[Helloreaper1]

Well I wasnt wanting to swap out any wiring which is why I was wondering about the hybrid method. I was told I can do the 2.5 block with my 2.2 heads and I wouldn't have to wire anything

[johnegg]

95 - 98, the ej22 and the ej25 will swap and run with absolutely no wiring or computer issues.

(some 99 ej25s are included in this group, but no 99 ej22s)

 

96 - 98 ej22s have a single port exhaust heads.

96 - 98 ej25s have a dual port exhaust heads.

so if you make that swap,

you will need the matching exhaust y-pipe (manifold).

 

what about your car:

year?

model?

engine?

trans?

miles?

color?

and what is wrong with your engine?

[Helloreaper1]

99 legacy 30th edition. Sedan. 2.2 sohc. 5mt. 115k miles. Gold.

It has compression issues that are getting worse the more I drive it.

[johnegg]

99 legacy 30th edition. Sedan. 2.2 sohc.

the above info is true and correct,

 

but NOT for this engine / car.

you have a phase 2 engine.

it is compatible with the 00 - 04 ej25.

 

you could still do the hybrid build with the 00 - 04 block,

no problem no wiring issues.

 

if you swap in a ej25 sohc engine, 00 - 04 (plus the 99 forester),

the best solution is to use the intake manifold, driver side cam sprocket, and crank sprocket from your ej22.

this guarantees the computer sees what it needs to run.

i would stick to the 00 - 01 ej25, it is a closer match, fewer headaches.

 

the 00 - 04 ej25 dose have head gasket problem,

but not as bad as the 96 - 99.

and instead of an interanl leak, it has an external leak,

coolant leaks out of the engine at the gasket.

 

several things to know.

there is a ''coolant conditioner'' from subaru that helps prevent this.

it may infact reseal a gasket, postponing the repair.

the coolant leak is very slow at first, and as long as you keep it topped of you can keep driving it.

it only over heats when the level gets low. DUH!!!

 

if swapping in an 00 - 04 ej25 i would replace the head gasket unless you are SURE it has been done.

and the coolant conditioner is a must.

 

good luck.

[johnegg]

have you checked the timing on your ej22?

the belt was due at 105k miles or 105 months (~9 years).

 

the belts usually do not fail,

but the tensioner and the toothed idler are common fail points.

any timing failure will bend valves.

115k is pretty low for a bad compression or head gasket on that engine.

 

have you done a compression test?

or checked the valve clearance?

 

plugs and wires are never a bad idea.

NGK plugs, and subaru quality wires or better.

[Helloreaper1]

I saw something about phase 1 and phase 2 motors but I couldn't figure out what mine was.

Im checking the compression in the next few days. I have to buy the tool.

 

The timing belt was done 10k miles ago shortly after buying the car. I did plugs and wires at the same time as well

[tony_de_whitt]

Hello

 

I'm new in here and a VW man not a Subaru man.

I've got a few questions if possible regarding this subject and not sure if posting here is the correct way to go it if I should start a new thread.

I'm looking at doing an ej22/ej25 engine

Anyone able to advise.

 

Thx

Anthony

[twisty]

gonna have to give a bit more info there, buddy. what are you looking for? the info for all the frankenmotors, 2.2 as well as 2.5 engines are in here and accessible with the search function. responses usually depend on what you are asking, and so far, my answer to your vague statement is yes.

[tony_de_whitt]

Ok mate. Thx.

I was just checking to see if anyone would reply to this thread or if I should start a new thread.

So you answered the question I asked thx

 

So my next questions are

 

Firstly I need to find out if the 2 engines I'm using are compatible. I have ej22 heads from a 1993 legacy.

 

And the bottom end from a dohc outback which I believe Is from a 1997 outback. Not sure on the exact year of make but it does have 1997 stamped on the underside of the oil filler cap.

 

Secondly I need to work out if I need to change the housing (not sure of its correct name) that bolts to the front of the engine to which the tensioner mounts.

 

I am aware that doing this conversion I have read somewhere that everything should be used from the ej22 apart from the block. As it stands there is no allowance or bolt holes to be able to mount the early tensioner to. So do I leave the single bolt tensioner on the ej25 and use that or do I swap the housing over allowing me to use the ej22 tensioner.?? In also wondering if the pulley covers will fit from the ej22 into what was the dohc bigger pulley covers.

 

Thx in advance go replies

If it helps I'm in Australia so not sure if that helps determine specs of engines. I can get some pics up if needed

 

Cheers

 

Anthony

[tony_de_whitt]

Hello all

 

Any advice/knowledge shared on the best injectors and oil pump to run on a frankenmotor??

 

Thanks in advance

 

Anthony

[Setnev]

99 legacy 30th edition. Sedan. 2.2 sohc. 5mt. 115k miles. Gold.

It has compression issues that are getting worse the more I drive it.

 

You know I am the guy to talk to about 99's? I have 3 of them. I'm currently working on a similar build with my 99 Outback, but I don't have the electronics for the 2.2, just the 2.5. I have a complete 2.2 with good compression that runs super strong out of my 99 Legacy 2.2 that I am parting out, if you're interested.

 

Since you have a 2.2 already in your car, it makes no sense to try to convert it to a 2.5 engine. The electronics are different in the 99 models. You can use a 2.5 bottom end, put your 2.2 heads and intake on it and it will be plug and play. The compression is boosted a little more than the stock 2.2 but you probably will not see a drastic increase in power. Maybe about 10hp or so over the stock 2.2 and about 10 HP less than the stock 2.5 engine. You do need to use a 2.5L head gaskets, like the MLS Fel-pro gaskets as they have the correct outlets for the water and oil jackets. You need to get a block that a 96-99 EJ25. If you can hear it run and do a compression check on it before tearing it down, that is even better.

 

I was going to work on converting the 2.5 harness to a 2.2 for backwards compatibility for people who wanted to get rid of the 2.5 and opt for the more reliable 2.2, but I found out my frankenmotor build will not yield the compression I expected. I still have the plans to convert the harness without removal if anyone is interested. I was planning to swap my entire 2.2 powertrain and drivetrain into my 99 Outback, but I'm just going to rebuild the 2.5 I have since it's only got 80k miles on it.

[wtdash]

Hi,

There are two posts mixed in here. Tony's is current; Hello's is not (2015).

 

For the Aussie:

- WHAT are you putting this in? A Subaru or a VW?

- Run either tensioner w/the matching housing-the housing swaps. The older style is considered better by some.

- The best injectors will be what matches your ECU/wiring, but should be the same between the 2.2 and 2.5. Although the '93 are likely grey and the '97 are red (in the USA). The fuel rails are different between SOHC and DOHC, and not interchangeable, but the injectors should be.

- Stock Oil pump is OK. Tighten the 4 screws on the back of the pump, replace the small O-ring on the block, and replace the Crank seal.

- The timing belt covers (pulley covers?) are different for the DOHC (twice the # of cams), but I think the middle/center piece may be same/similar.

[tony_de_whitt]

Wtdash

 

Thx for the reply.

 

I'm wanting to run the frankenmotor in my Vw syncro. I currently have a stock ej22 in there but I'm hoping for a bit more power.

 

It's currently running with the grey top injectors(which I've read are interchangeable with the red tops??)

 

Anyway I read somewhere to use the Subaru 280's which to be honest I'm not sure what they would be from. Any idea if this is correct or to stick with the original red or grey??

 

I'm pretty happy with the rest of the swap. I'm currently sticking with the original oil pump but again read that it needs to be bigger for better flow, again unsure if correct. But read move up to 10mm pump.

 

Thx for any replies

 

Cheers Anthony

[DOHCEJ22E1]

If you are intent on creating a powerful N/A EJ fusion of parts, do the following:

 

EJ25D heads (97-99).

EJ251 bottom end (99-04).

 

Done. Not only will it be reliable, but it will pump out much more power than the original engines the parts came from.

 

DO NOT put EJ22E heads on an EJ25. That's asking for more trouble than you will be willing to pay for.

Also, grey tops in N/A engines have the same CC rating as red tops: 280.

[DOHCEJ22E1]

What year is your wiring/ECU? This will be the most important factor that will decide what you can actually run.

[wtdash]

I wouldn't worry about the oil pump unless you're oiling a turbo, etc. There is some 'conversation' about TOO big an oil pump causing issues.

 

-I have NO experience w/the EJ22e heads on an EJ25 block (frankenmotor) but many others do. Since that's the hardware you have on hand, may be worth doing some more (re)searching about it.

[tony_de_whitt]

Thx for replies

 

I'm currently set up with wiring for an ej22.

 

Hence the frankenmotor project.

 

I've looked at lots of info but some contrasting stuff with which heads and bottom end

 

Which oil pump etc etc

 

Thx

[DOHCEJ22E1]

Thx for replies

 

I'm currently set up with wiring for an ej22.

 

Hence the frankenmotor project.

 

I've looked at lots of info but some contrasting stuff with which heads and bottom end

 

Which oil pump etc etc

 

Thx

 

Such wiring will also run an EJ25D.

[tony_de_whitt]

Really

 

Does the wiring and ecu match up to the ej25d head manifold wire connections??

 

What engines were the ej25d heads from?? Are they the DOHC heads??

 

Cheers

[wtdash]

Really

 

Does the wiring and ecu match up to the ej25d head manifold wire connections??

 

- Yes - there are exceptions due to the emissions stuff - but not sure that applies Down Under.* Do you have the OBD1 and OBD2?

 

What engines were the ej25d heads from?? Are they the DOHC heads??

 

- In the US we had the EJ25D (Yes, DOHC) from '96-'99. The '96 used HLA valve adjusters; '97-'99 were Shim/bucket.

 

Cheers

 

*Tangent:I'm using an EJ25D ECU on my 1996 EJ22 (for more fuel as I added a turbo). The '96 EJ22 SEDAN has the Charcoal Canister back by the 'petrol' tank. A '96 and '97 Outback had it up under the 'bonnet' mounted near the air filter /intake. I got a 'Purge' CEL/check engine light when I tried a '96-'97 EJ25D ECU, but it works fine w/the '98 EJ25D ECU as canister is also by the fuel tank.

[Elysian]

I'm running an EJ25D bottom end with phase II EJ25 SOHC heads. Gave me a bit more power, I'm assuming from the reduction of rotating mass and different injectors and slightly intake design. It's a bit hacked together right now, running an EJ25 SOHC intake manifold with a hole drilled in the side of it. The hole is filled with a tube that runs to an adapter I made for my IACV. It's not ideal, but I was able to upgrade to the newer style coil pack which has the igniter included (and this only took a minor wiring mod at the stock igniter and an adapter to plug it into the stock coil plug). I also have the top mounted spark plugs, no more hassle changing the plugs like my 97's original engine had.

 

I just made a prototype for adapter plates so I can go back to the Phase I intake manifold, I need to be able to pass emissions, and the Phase II intake has no place to put an EGR. No matter how I tried to trick it, I couldn't, so I'm going back to the old style manifold w/ EGR. Should run beautifully then. Going to try to keep my coil pack though. Pics of my adapter prototypes are in the "What did you do today" thread. Here's a pic of my Frankenmotor in its current form:

 

http://i.imgur.com/CHmVFqhh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4MF5tEYh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/J0JkIoch.jpg

 

My crazy IACV setup:

 

http://i.imgur.com/uvRjsAbh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DkijPAIh.jpg

 

Simple wiring mod for the new coil:

 

http://i.imgur.com/GYxw9OQh.jpg

 

Basically cut off the connector for the igniter and bridged the wires together. Took some trial and error till I got the right colors, but if your connector's wires match mine you should be good to go with this.

 

And the simple adapter I made to run the new coil:

 

http://i.imgur.com/W7KaweHh.jpg

 

 

So yeah, if you do decide to go SOHC, I highly recommend the manifold adapter route, it's not worth the headache trying to get the Phase II manifold to work if you need to pass emissions.

[DOHCEJ22E1]

Don't want to disappoint Elysian, but you may have actually lost a bit of power all around, yet you gained low-end response and a more focused midrange than the 97-99 EJ25D being SOHC...unless you used a '96 EJ25D bottom end to make up for the compression loss. You ARE pulling more air through the IM and heads, though. If you used a 97-99 25D bottom end, a little bit of boost from a 13T will make that a happy engine indeed, thanks to the bigger, more efficient ports and airways, plus the bigger chambers those heads have.

[Elysian]

Don't want to disappoint Elysian, but you may have actually lost a bit of power all around, yet you gained low-end response and a more focused midrange than the 97-99 EJ25D being SOHC...unless you used a '96 EJ25D bottom end to make up for the compression loss. You ARE pulling more air through the IM and heads, though. If you used a 97-99 25D bottom end, a little bit of boost from a 13T will make that a happy engine indeed, thanks to the bigger, more efficient ports and airways, plus the bigger chambers those heads have.

 

Well, the butt dyno definitely doesn't feel any loss, as scientific as that is The bottom end is out of a 98 Legacy, and I replaced the main bearings and everything else inside except the rotating assembly. What is your source for the volume of the chambers? I found 50cc for both DOHC and SOHC. I did find this post from grossgary saying 46.2 with thicker head gaskets: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/143908-96-ej25d-head-question/ quoting 46.2 for DOHC, but the head gasket I'm using is 0.6mm if I remember correctly. I've never driven one with the original head gaskets, so I have no frame of reference there.

 

My subscribe email showed someone asking about the wiring, guess they deleted their post. No, wiring definitely didn't work, I transferred my 97 harness over.