Who wants to complain more about HIDs?

[mach_six]

I rather have HID cause I like to see things more clearly, I don't see how seeing clearly is bling. Bling is stupid colored lightbulbs.

[mach_six]

I thought the focal points and cutoffs are still len based, not the actual HID bulb itself.

 

Keefe

 

You can see where hte cut off is with the current bulbs. I think that's why HID is better install in our projectors than the previous generations. It looks like both L and R cut off is the same to me.

[Xenonk]

I rather have HID cause I like to see things more clearly, I don't see how seeing clearly is bling. Bling is stupid colored lightbulbs.

 

 

no, real bling is having the Lexus directional headlights installed onto your car.

 

US and Euro cutoffs are both the same cutoff (low on the left, high on the right for BOTH left and right headlight)... something that looks like this:

 

__/--__/--

 

JDM is the reverse:

 

--\__ --\__

 

to not blind people of on-coming traffic. Adding HIDs will clarify the cutoff line while intensify the "hot" spot and make where ever the light shine with more light.

 

 

Keefe

[ShadowImg]

My 2003 2.5RS has European STi projectors on it. Proper LHD, rather than most people who retrofitted the JDM projectors with the RHD cutoff. I would suspect if you looked, you could source the full HID assembly from somewhere in Europe (anywhere but the UK) with a proper setup for LHD.

[doteleven]

Hi,

 

I drove my wagon for the first time at night yesterday (ok - I have only had it for two days). I just came from an R32 which had a high quality 4300K HID kit with Audi A4 ECE HID projector bodies, and leveling motors.

 

I have to say that I was looking very seriously at getting the valeo projectors with D2S bulbs to retrofit into the Legacy before I bought the car.

 

I honestly have to say that the Legacy stock projectors are about 85% as good as the very nice custom (but not OEM) HID setup on my R32. They are about 80% as good as the OEM HIDs on my brother in law's Toureg. And the Legacy USDM projectors put all the VW MkIV reflector headlights to incredible shame.

 

The only bad part is that the light is slightly yellow. But boy these suckers are bright! This is now way down on my list of mods...

 

BTW - whoever is thinking that they can just spend $300 or so on ebay to get a HID kit is deceiving themselves and causing a serious safety issue for your fellow drivers. When putting HID kits into halogen projector bodies, there is a serious amount of dazzle due to the fact the optics on the halogen projectors are different from the HID projector bodies. Don't do it!

 

You'll notice that the really good OEM HIDs from Acura, Lexus, Audi, etc. seem kind of "dim" when seen approaching from the other direction compared to non-HID cars. The reason is that they don't dazzle the eye since the cutoff patterns are designed properly - to lightup the road - not the oncoming traffic.

 

Also, if you are going to do HIDs and retrofit the projector bodies, go with a 4300K kit. They have the most light output. People think that BMW is the "best" OEM but actually it is the worst because they use 6000K HIDs, which have less output that Acura, Audi, etc.

 

One final note - I know where you can source LHD OEM HIDs for the Legacy - Taiwan. Nearly all cars there have OEM HIDs (even Camry cabs!) and they are LHD.

 

Albert

[v33k]

The cut-off is fine if you position the D2S bulb properly with an H7->D2S adaptor ring

OEM Hella Ignitor can fit in the back of the headlight as well

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17515

[doteleven]

Just because the cutoff pattern looks sharp on your garage door doesn't mean that you're dazzling oncoming drivers... A better comparison is to park your car next to an OEM HID equipped car and stand in front of them both. Then check out the dazzle... While you're at it, check out the beam pattern down the road for both and see how splotchy the Subaru pattern is compared to the OEM car. If someone can show me those pix, then I'll be convinced that it is a good retrofit.

 

Albert

[agctr]

Currently no XENON lights are available in any Subaru here in Oz.

Although I am led to believe by SoAU that MY06 STi will carry Xenons as standard.

Ada///M.

[v33k]

Just because the cutoff pattern looks sharp on your garage door doesn't mean that you're dazzling oncoming drivers... A better comparison is to park your car next to an OEM HID equipped car and stand in front of them both. Then check out the dazzle... While you're at it, check out the beam pattern down the road for both and see how splotchy the Subaru pattern is compared to the OEM car. If someone can show me those pix, then I'll be convinced that it is a good retrofit.

 

Albert

 

you'd be the judge

 

A6 HID Beam Pattern

Same garage door

Different camera though

[VXCL]

If someone can show me those pix, then I'll be convinced that it is a good retrofit.

 

Albert

 

legacy with decent xenon kit (notice the two boxes of dim light above the cutoff- from hole in cutoff shield)

http://img272.echo.cx/img272/5286/dsc022367qt.jpg

 

my legacy with complete xenon hella gen 4 d2s projector retro

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/vxcl/legacy/IMG_3753.JPG

 

im supposed to meet up and take some pics with anohter member of stock vs my setup but i've been real busy. also there are 2 other members who purchased the same parts from me and i look foward to seeing their setups completed as well. the stock halogen setup is prob the best i've seen and i do miss how they threw some more light down the road through a hole in the cutoff shield that is not possible with xenon. if only are car had leveling units on them. it really sucks driving on hilly roads and having the cutoff like 25 feet in front of you. but it sure is nice driving in the rain with xenon and having almost as much visibility as when it was dry with the stock setup.

[doteleven]

VXCL - thanks - that's exactly what I was talking about. However, I do wonder what the top picture would look like with the H7 to D2S adaptor - v33k's picture seems to indicate that the adaptor makes a big difference.

 

I had leveling motors on my last car. Maybe I'm just a slowpoke, but I found I wasn't too good at adjusting them in real time to the driving conditions. So just aim 'em higher??

 

Albert

[Scotty]

If you want to take comparison pictures, position the car and the camera in exactly the same place. Also put the camera into manual mode, pick a setting for the shutter speed, aperature, and white balance. By using one setting, the camera won't be adjusting to the amount of light available. This will let you see the difference.

[chuckzul]

Hi,

 

 

BTW - whoever is thinking that they can just spend $300 or so on ebay to get a HID kit is deceiving themselves and causing a serious safety issue for your fellow drivers. When putting HID kits into halogen projector bodies, there is a serious amount of dazzle due to the fact the optics on the halogen projectors are different from the HID projector bodies. Don't do it!

 

Albert

 

I respectfully disagree. I bought one of those "$300" kits (actually $280) and did a side by side comparison with a neighbors OEM setup, and they look exactly the same. I even drove behind him and in front of him down a deserted road, switched cars and did the same thing. They look virtually the same. No glare, no "dazzle", and I've never been "flashed" by anyone when using my "$300" kit. I bought them because I have very bad night driving vision and they help immensely.

[jaycee]

Maybe somebody at Subaru finally figured out that HIDs are inherently evil and intentially decided not to sully their flagship car with them.

[Scooterman]

I think it's been pretty clear for the last few years that the Impreza is truly the flagship car for Suby.. it's the one that truly got them the most exposure. If it wasn't for Rex's and STi's being so prominent over the past few years, and their rally cred, I may not even own my legacy. I only got the legacy because of the need for room for my growing family. But the Rex is in my heart.. and I will own one eventually.

 

I always love the looks I get in my Legacy.. everyone around Mich seems to own Outbacks.. they all stare at my car as if to say.. "thats like my car, but it's not all trail looking... what the?!?!?!" I haden't even considered a Legacy before I was looking at them. Why.. I was looking for an Impreza.. they just weren't big enough.

---------------

 

The Impreza is a crap cheap car which when converted into a WRX/STi its a crap cheap car with a great motor and some good suspension. If you knew Subaru's you would know that the RS Turbo legacy, essentially the same car as the current GT was Subaru's rally car in the early 90's before they brought out the smaller cheaper Impreza and stuck the RS motor in it and used it for rally instead. The Impreza WRX/Sti is the biggest selling, attention grabbing car for boy racers for sure, but the flagship my azzzz.

[bcbaohio]

Consumer Reports sure doesn't think its crap, it's one of the highest rated cars for reliability and quality, if not the highest rated. Furthermore, at prices ranging from around $24K up to almost $29K for the new WRX Ltd., it ain't cheap either. Like it or not the WRX and the WRX STi put Subaru on the map.

 

However, I do question the soundness of their thinking in making it their flagship, but let's face it, the Legacy ain't for everyone (simply because most people don't know what it is). I think in time, as Subaru continues its upward climb through the market, the WRX will only become more embedded into the performance world's skin, and the Leggy with evolve into an even luxurious Acura fighter - with HIDs (some friggin' day).

[Scooterman]

Well it appears the US view of the Impreza is different than the rest of the world who think it is the best value for money performance car which started out as a cheap small car and (other than in performance) never escapes it's roots.

 

In other markets the base model Impreza starts about at about 65% of the base model legacy cost i.e. as a cheap small car. So you figure which is the higher quality car, regardless of performance.

 

Actually though, after reading this board for a while, I do wonder how the build quality of the US version of the Legacy compares to the JDM spec ones a bit too. For example you guys complain about paintwork, no HID's etc, when the JDM version has fantastic quality paintwork, HID's and MacIntosh Stereo etc etc.

 

PS: Consumer reports are sent in by owner/enthusiasts. It's fast, they could afford it, wow it must be a top quality car too.

[The B4]

After putting HID's in my car...I will have to say it is HARDER to see a lot of things in the dark...eventhough the HID's are brighter...they tend to meld with the night instead of standing against it. They do make reflective things show up better like street signs. I do enjoy the bling though.

[VXCL]

VXCL - thanks - that's exactly what I was talking about. However, I do wonder what the top picture would look like with the H7 to D2S adaptor - v33k's picture seems to indicate that the adaptor makes a big difference.

 

I had leveling motors on my last car. Maybe I'm just a slowpoke, but I found I wasn't too good at adjusting them in real time to the driving conditions. So just aim 'em higher??

 

Albert

 

 

well yeah if retro a d2s setup and position the bulb correctly it would be superior to any kit for several reasons vs just focusing better. v33ks looks much better. before i did my swap i tested it out side by side and thats where you see the big difference. the cutoff is no where near as precise with our setup vs true d2s projector. i was convinced i wasnt going to swap my projectors but then i tested a bmw unit out that i had laying around and there was no more debate. however that being said our projectors with prooperly focused setup is prob one of the best h7 setups to use d2s in. so if your a nut like me swap them. if you want a sweet swtup without all the hassle then go the other route.

 

and no cant aim them higher cuz ill blind everyone. i just hit the highs for a sec and im fine otherwise i just follow the car in front of me. it is seriously daylight in front of me at night when i have both the highs and lows on.

[VXCL]

If you want to take comparison pictures, position the car and the camera in exactly the same place. Also put the camera into manual mode, pick a setting for the shutter speed, aperature, and white balance. By using one setting, the camera won't be adjusting to the amount of light available. This will let you see the difference.

 

thats exactly how i will do it when i finally meet up with mmm def.

[v33k]

I think one of the problem of the stock Legacy H7 is the way it sits.

Notice that notch at the base is not sitting at 6 o'clock position?

it is somewhere like 4 o'clock or 8 o'clock depends on which side you look at it.

For stock halogen bulb is fine, however, for HID bulb, there might be an issue since there is a return wire.

 

Now, most of the rebased HID setup has the return wire line up with the notch. When you put that kit into our H7 housing, that makes the HID bulb not sitting properly.

 

That's the reason why I use a H7->D2S adaptor ring, I could turn the HID bulb and make sure the return wire is sitting at 6o o'clock position like stock HID projector setup.

[blue dragon]

First off, HIDS, or lack of HIDs is not a deal breaker. Otherwise we would all be saying that Audi, Volvo, Acura, etc. are better.

 

First of all, they are illegal. Retrofitting a HID bulb into a halogen rig might work "ok" but it might also NOT. It NEVER works as well as a proper HID setup, complete with the correct projector, or a HID-designed reflector.

 

The Subaru Legacy's H7 projector is easy to fit a HID bulb into. And the pattern looks better, and does put out more light to the naked eye. But it is nowhere near as efficent with it's light pattern or cutoff than a true HID projector. The 06 WRX STi will have a true HID projector, as do the overseas market Legacys that have HIDs.

It is all about the cutoff. There is a blade in front of the bulb, or around it that causes a strict horizontal pattern cutoff, so that it lights the road below the cutoff very well, and no light is projected higher than the cutoff. little or no blinding oncoming or preceding drivers.

 

The cutoff blade and the reflector in the USDM Legacy's low-beam projector were designed for a halogen filament. Putting an arc-type HID bulb in, even if the filament and the arc are in the same position, doesn't focus or cutoff the same way. That is true for most HID retrofits, some worse than others, and is why other drivers get glare.

 

VXCL and I, and many other members here have discussed this at length in the exterior/lighting forum, and there is a lot of good information there, as well as VXCL's pics of his retrofit of HID PROJECTORS into his Legacy headlights, and some beam comparisons.

 

When done right, HIDs with proper cutoff and pattern will amaze people who have never used them, with how much more light is output to the road, because so much more light is generated. This isn't a "tornado" hype type of thing, this is a real advantage when driving after dark.

 

This isn't a "BMWs have it, so I must also..." scenario. This is that BMW and many other manufacturers have recognized the advantage of HID lighting, because it is a distinct improvement. I want a Subaru Legacy GT for many reasons, and this feature is something I wish it had. (and does have in other parts of the world. US Legacys even have a breakout in the fuse panel for the relays and fuses, it is just absent.)

 

The thing is, that in the Legacy's price class, considering it's competition, Subaru should be offering this option. I DO NOT think it should be standard equipment. If I want it, I'll pay more for it to be correct, and legal. You shouldn't have to if you don't want it. I don't want NAV, and don't want to pay for it, in much the same way, but others do.

 

There you are wrong. The projector uses an H7 bulb which has the same focal point as a D2S projector. I have done a projector retro on my Toyota Matrix when we owned it, was a member of hidforum.com when it was around, and now hidplanet. The projector on the legacy is similar to the Valeo H7 projectors used in the Audi A4 and S4 which is quite readily converted for use with a D2S bulb

[robmarch]

The Impreza is a crap cheap car which when converted into a WRX/STi its a crap cheap car with a great motor and some good suspension.

 

just like the M3 is a crap cheap car with a great motor and some good suspension? I mean, they give those things away in germany when you put the 1.X liter 4 cylinder in it. And the S4, I mean, you can get an A4 cheap. What a POS!!! And, who would buy an M5 when they sell

 

In other markets the base model Impreza starts about at about 65% of the base model legacy cost i.e. as a cheap small car. So you figure which is the higher quality car, regardless of performance.

 

The cars share drivetrains and aren't significantly different in cost to build at similar spec points, that's why there's price overlap between the two. Of course, different markets have different hot price points. Subaru could probably sell the impreza and the legacy here much cheaper with less features and smaller engines like they do overseas. they didn't to keep impreza prices up.

 

of course, none of this has any bearing whatsoever on the quality of the platform of either car.

 

If you knew Subaru's you would know that the RS Turbo legacy, essentially the same car as the current GT was Subaru's rally car in the early 90's before they brought out the smaller cheaper Impreza and stuck the RS motor in it and used it for rally instead.

 

"essentially the same" is a funny phrase. For example, the previous generation legacy was more "essentially the same" as the current Impreza than it is the current Legacy GT. Except that the current impreza is stiffer, has better crash performance, etc.

 

unless you're referring to the name on the trunk, and then, you're right.

 

The Impreza WRX/Sti is the biggest selling, attention grabbing car for boy racers for sure, but the flagship my azzzz.

 

these flagship debates are always funny. Is honda's flagship the S2000 or the Accord? What about Nissan, 350Z or Maxima? Who cares?

 

Most companies have a performance icon, which is the STi for subaru. It's the viper, Z06, Carrera GT, etc. it's the Halo car. Subaru also knows that these things don't sell the volume to support a company, and that most buyers are "aspire" buyers. the legacy is being pushed up market to fill that role, while still retaining the brand's newly captured (in the US) performance image. Most of the time, though, this car competes with the accord, maxima, etc., and also with the entry luxury A4's, 3 series and that sort of car.

 

The fact that the legacy GT is the leather/luxury subaru and the STi is the track oriented model doesn't make either a POS, though, no matter how cheap you can buy a stripped version of the car for in a 1 liter market.

[VXCL]

valeo h7 converted to d2s is the best h7 retro i have seen to date. they are about 95% identical to their xenon counterparts most importantly cutoff and beam pattern. the projectors themselves are identical minus the bulb holder. bottom line is if you are a DIY guy dont get waste $$$ on a kit. oem bulbs and ballasts can be had for under $200. if i had some more parts around i would sell them to ya.

[bcbaohio]

just like the M3 is a crap cheap car with a great motor and some good suspension? I mean, they give those things away in germany when you put the 1.X liter 4 cylinder in it. And the S4, I mean, you can get an A4 cheap. What a POS!!! And, who would buy an M5 when they platform of either car.

 

Most companies have a performance icon, which is the STi for subaru. It's the viper, Z06, Carrera GT, etc. it's the Halo car. Subaru also knows that these things don't sell the volume to support a company, and that most buyers are "aspire" buyers. the legacy is being pushed up market to fill that role, while still retaining the brand's newly captured (in the US) performance image. Most of the time, though, this car competes with the accord, maxima, etc., and also with the entry luxury A4's, 3 series and that sort of car.

 

The fact that the legacy GT is the leather/luxury subaru and the STi is the track oriented model doesn't make either a POS, though, no matter how cheap you can buy a stripped version of the car for in a 1 liter market.

 

+1