scoobyjohn Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Ok so just on my way home from dinner I noticed at stoplights and at idle my aem uego Afr gauge was not at stoich normally it is hovering between 14.7-15.2 or somewhere around there... Right now it bounces around a little but is deffinetly leaner than I am used to seeing. Any thoughts? Exhaust leak, or vacuum leak? I poked around a little but it is raining and dark, plus I don't work until 2pm tomorrow this giving me time tomorrow to do some troubleshooting. On to about my car, fmic, blouch 2.5xtr turbo, sidefeed tgv deletes, dw 850 injectors and dw65c pump, Crawford aos...Other goodies but nothin that would affect this new problem. Well chime in if you have any suggestions, I have all night to think about possibilities so let's hear em. Thanks, I didn't know where to post this so feel free to move mods!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Pull a Learning view or post what your fuel trims are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PtPixel Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 ^that. AFR learnings can tell you where to start looking if there's any issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobyjohn Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 I looked at my Afr corrections using my ap2. It was prettuch all over the place but was deff high, maxed out at 25.0 at some points. I'm thinking maybe inlet leak, bov leak, oraf needs cleaned? That's where I will start? What is this learning view? Same thing as corrections under monitoring? Ihow do I read fuel trims? Thank u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic2772.html It is a nice graphical way to show the relevant data. If your fuel trims are pegged, then there is definitely something that needs checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PtPixel Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Learning view is a program which gives a snapshot of engine conditions. I think you can only use it with a tactrix cable, not an AP, so don't worry about it. You can log the fuel trims using your AP, just log the parameters A/F Learning A, B, C & D (4 parameters). These don't change with rpm or engine speed so you just need to log for a few seconds. The A, B, C & D parameters should be 0, but anywhere from -5 to +5 is considered healthy. If any value is a large (>5) and positive then it indicates that more air is entering your intake than the MAF is registering - i.e. you have an intake leak (vacuum leak) between the MAF and turbo. (Positive value adds more fuel to account for the extra air) If the value is negative then it indicates that air is escaping the system prior to entering the engine (boost leak) then you need to check all lines post-turbo. (Negative value reduces the fuel to account for the loss of air) Once you have those logs chuck the files on here. There are some common places to start looking depending on the values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobyjohn Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 Thank you, I will take a look tomorrow morning. That is excellent information!! I'll update tomorrow with a hypothesis as to where the leak is given the number guide. Off topic but, I also have a cummins, so I've been on cummins forum lately doing some research and introducing myself. Let me say this, unfriendly negative group most of them are. This forum is awesome, smaller forums like this are so much more friendly and responsive. Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobyjohn Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 Well it is deffinetly a positive number so it must be leakin between the maf and turbo somewhere. That's not much distance so I'm hoping it will be a quick fix. It is a pain the a** working in that tight space. I have a 3" inlet with tgv's deleted but man it's tight in there. I will keep this updated. Any common places to start looking? Thank you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 My dad has a Ram 3500 dooley with a Cummins turbodiesel ... manual trans. Has a tune on it, it's a blast to drive. Scary how much torque it's got. He once told me while I was driving it "it's unfortunate you can't really row through gears in this thing like in a small car" My response was "challenge accepted" and proceded to prove him wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 By the way, I am likewise tackling a potential, highly elusive leak and came across this http://www.turboboostleaktesters.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discojon Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Learning view is a program which gives a snapshot of engine conditions. I think you can only use it with a tactrix cable, not an AP, so don't worry about it. You can log the fuel trims using your AP, just log the parameters A/F Learning A, B, C & D (4 parameters). These don't change with rpm or engine speed so you just need to log for a few seconds. The A, B, C & D parameters should be 0, but anywhere from -5 to +5 is considered healthy. If any value is a large (>5) and positive then it indicates that more air is entering your intake than the MAF is registering - i.e. you have an intake leak (vacuum leak) between the MAF and turbo. (Positive value adds more fuel to account for the extra air) If the value is negative then it indicates that air is escaping the system prior to entering the engine (boost leak) then you need to check all lines post-turbo. (Negative value reduces the fuel to account for the loss of air) Once you have those logs chuck the files on here. There are some common places to start looking depending on the values. I'll add that neg numbers in a-c are generally an indication of bad maf scaling or vac leak. The car should never see boost in a, rarely if at all in b, and will in c,d. Boost leak will manifest itself in c-d. Vacuum leaks aren't limited to between maf and turbo. More like maf and intake valves when in vacuum. Under boost a vac leak will only occur between maf and turbo. If a-c are positive ( usually a will be highest if vacuum leak) the check vac lines on the intake manifold. Anyway. Start with MAF scaling is my advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobyjohn Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 Thank you for the help here! When viewing the gauge and Afr corrections on my ap2, driving under normal driving conditions everything appears normal. When I first start the car, everything appears normal, high idles a minute maybe, ( a little rich, normal) then things settle into te 15.0 range for moments, then gradually rise into lean numbers 16-17-18. When things start to get a little abnormal my corrections on my ap rise into the high single digits, the teens, then eventually 25.0. Is it safe to drive? Am I harming the engine? Rarely am I at idle, there are few stoplights around me. How do I Maf scale? Ok, help wrap my head around this part: just log the parameters A/F Learning A, B, C & D (4 parameters). These don't change with rpm or engine speed so you just noeed to log for a few seconds. I have been monitoring with the ap, but my only option is "Afr correction." What are the a,b,c,&d parameters? My dad has a Ram 3500 dooley with a Cummins turbodiesel ... manual trans. Has a tune on it, it's a blast to drive. Scary how much torque it's got. He once told me while I was driving it "it's unfortunate you can't really row through gears in this thing like in a small car" My response was "challenge accepted" and proceded to prove him wrong My dodge is a 1997 2500, a oldie but only had 1 owner and no modifications when I bought it. It's also a 5spd which is pretty desirable (imo). The funny tho about having 2 turbocharged vehicles is rarely neither need something done. Right now the truck is in the shop getting a twin turbo setup put on, been doing the supporting mods for about 1.5yrs. It's going to be a dtech 66mm secondary, over a bw475 (75mm) primary. Going to start conservative for now, still should be about 500hp, but start adding timing and more fuel, could be 800hp. Hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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