nicholaschase29 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Hi everyone. I just bought a LGT. Looking to provide it with the best care. I've kind of zero'd in on the Amsoil 5w-40 European blend as it exceeds the shear requirement and seems to be a decent oil. Has anyone had experience with this blend? Any other recommendation of blends within the Amsoil family? OCI will be 3750. It will be driven in weather between 30-100 degrees F. Could someone explain to me the SAPS meaning and how it will affect the oil effectiveness. Thanks, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I'm not an oil expert, but I have researched a fair amount. We have had an Amsoil rep visit on here in the past. Full SAPS usually offers the best protection out of the SN/SM oils, but the SM/SN oils still have reduced levels of zinc and phosphorus (ZDDP) than the SL/SJ standard oils. I just bought the Amsoil 10w40, since it has higher zinc content which is great for our engines with the cam design and turbocharger bearings. The best SN/SM oils meet ACEA A3/B3 specification. Some of the most stringent specs from OEMs are Porsche A40 and Mercedes 229, so if an oil can pass those, it's an oil that offers superior protection and can withstand high temperature and high shear. Long story short, the 5w40 Euro is good. AMO 10w40 is slightly better. I am running high tension valve springs, so I want the higher zinc content. With a good oil filter, you can run 5k intervals with either oil, especially if you have removed the banjo bolt filters on the oil supply lines. -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 As an Amsoil dealer, we've been using the European setup in 5w40 on Stage 2 and up cars for the summer here in NJ for years. We only stopped carrying it on a regular basis about 3 years ago because it isn't "certified" for use in Subarus. So in the event of an issue it could cause warranty issues. If you plan to do 3750 OCI, the Amsoil IMO is overkill. We offer Motul 5w30 and 5w40 now as our standard synthetic oil change for customers and the Blackstone lab results have shown it to be excellent up to 6k miles. Amsoil Signature Series 5w30 and 5w40 are what we use as our extended OCI oil change and blackstone lab results have shown it to be good for the 7-10k+ OCI. We do a fair amount of oil changes (we go through 2 55gal drums of 5w30 Motul every 6 weeks and that doesn't include the Amsoil and the Motul 5w40 oil we go through). So our sample size is a decent size. -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesubie Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 There goes the "shear requirement" statement again. For the record, it's a preference of many Subaru enthusiasts but defintely not a requirement. SAPS is Sulphated Ash Phosphorus and Sulphur and Low SAPS requires reduced levels of ZDDP (which includes sulphur). It came about to be more emission friendly (cat and DPF), but there is some question about how long you can safely run low SAPS oils because they have a very low TBN (and designed for use with lower sulphur European fuel). The ZDDP levels are are the low side, sometimes comparable to Resource Conserving oils. So you can have a thick oil with a good High Temp High Shear, but with lower ZDDP. There are other benefits as well (page 19, although intake valve deposits aren't a problem for the LGT): http://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdditives/ACEA/ConferencePapers/LowerSAPS.pdf Generally speaking, a mid-SAPS oil will be "better" than a higher SAPS oil in terms of the better base stocks required in order to still meet the European builder approvals and ACEA specs (although technically Amsoil isn't certified anyway like Mike said, except for the XL and OE lines and DEO). 3,750 miles shouldn't be a problem on a low SAPS oil, depending on your car and your driving conditions, but I probably wouldn't bother with expensive oil at those intervals. Mobil1 0W-40, German/Belgian Castrol 0W-30/0W-40, and Rotella T6 5W-40 are all excellent choices and are a great bang for the buck (as long as you purchase from Wal-Mart or buy them on sale). And I would probably run the FULL SAPS version of the Amsoil Euro, or Amsoil HDD 5W-30, or DEO 5W-40 since I don't run girly man oils. Well, sometimes I do. I would run them at least to 6k miles though. The HDD has an additive package similar to the above mentioned 10W-40 and is a thick 30 grade with a high HTHS and a high TBN. -Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 The signature series amsoil is also warranty compliant for the Subies. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesubie Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 The signature series amsoil is also warranty compliant for the Subies. Mike Nope. You have to read carefully through the marketing speak (not that the OP is concerned about warranty). Amsoil says "recommended for" but not actually "certified". Only the XL and OE lines get the Starburst symbol. http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/gasoline/sae-5w-30-xl-extended-life-synthetic-motor-oil/?code=XLFQT-EA http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/gasoline/sae-5w-30-signature-series-100-percent-synthetic-motor-oil/?code=ASLQT-EA http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/categories/upload/motor_oil_guide_2010_120210.pdf Amsoil prefers not to submit their top tier oils for certification since they may go beyond certain additive limits of the API or ILSAC. -Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I will recheck it tonight cause I am away from my computer right now. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Here is the spec sheet for the signature series: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf SM Rated. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesubie Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Here is the spec sheet for the signature series: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf SM Rated. Mike Nope +2. "It is recommended for all domestic and foreign vehicles requiring any of the listed performance specfications: ..." Without the Starburst symbol on the bottle, the oil is not certified by the API or ILSAC. See my link from the API above. If you can show me a bottle of Signature Series in any viscosity with the Starburst symbol (that you didn't switch the label on), I will drop by AZP tomorrow and buy everyone lunch. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3134422 http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2772240 http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2709753 http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1761285 -Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Amsoil would not recommend something that would void the warranty. Also the spec sheets show SM rating exactly the same on OE XL and Signature, but is not listed on the European at all. I will look at the warranty info tonight and see where it leads. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesubie Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Some of the Euro oils don't bother listing API certs because Euro cars don't care about API certs. They only care about ACEA certs and VW, MB, BMW, etc. approvals. Amsoil feels that the warranty cannot be voided by running non-API oils. There was something on their web site about it at one point but now I can't find it. Oh, I did find something similar so maybe it's just updated info since the site was updated a while back. They used to have something about running non API oils and warranty but I can't find it right now. Why doesn’t AMSOIL license all of its synthetic motor oils? If all AMSOIL motor oils were API licensed, the company could not source new raw materials from multiple suppliers, which would greatly increase the threat of supply disruption and the likelihood of extraordinarily high prices. To solve this problem, the API must establish base stock interchange guidelines for synthetic base stocks just as they have for other base stocks, as well as develop interchange guidelines for other components too. Furthermore, licensing formulas limits the ability to quickly adopt new technologies as they are discovered; each variation from the originally licensed formula requires re-submission for complete engine testing (see the Ask AMSOIL entry above for more information). http://www.amsoil.com/frequent.aspx I'm not saying that these oils are not good. They're excellent oils and go above and beyond API specs. -Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooslick Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 The Amsoil 5w-40, "Premium Synthetic Diesel Oil" (product code DEO), is an API licensed CJ-4/SN formulation. It's an excellent choice for turbocharged engines , including many European models. The 5w-40 European Formula (AFL), is now on Mercedes Approval Sheet for their MB 229.51 spec. It's also officially approved for the Porsche A40 specification. Both of these European specs are more stringent that API/SN or SM. TS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 FWIW I run the Full SAPS European 5w-40 in both my cars. Have been for a couple years now, I run their filter and after having Blackstone labs do a few oil samples have settled in on a 7000 mile OCI. Blackstone says to leave it in and send in another sample at 9000 miles, but I alway's change it. I do a lot of highway miles, my DD is 32 miles oneway, about 29 of that highway. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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