Official 3.6R Mod List

[GhiaAddict]

Golfer: Thanks for the pics. This is the kind of info I'm looking for. Makes me re-evaluate my exhaust setup. Great looking setup, may i ask how much you paid for the mid-pipe?

[Golferdude1087]

It was AMR out of Danbury CT.

 

The stainless steel midpipe (do not go mild steel unless you either plan on selling the car in 2-3 years or don't live where it gets any snow) was about $1200.

 

They did the following when they did the headers (i already had them so price isn't included)

1- 93AKI tune ~ $500

1 - ultra quiet resonator ~ $100

2 - race cats ~ $400

1 - custom midpipe pipe ~ $1200

total was $2300 with tax.

 

Adding a full CBE would be $700-$1000 bought brand new, though from my experience on the stock exhaust, not worth it unless you want the noise.

 

I would also recommend getting bigger sway bars then the stocks.

 

Get the Legacy 2013 FSB, its significantly larger then the 2010-2012 and either grab a 2015 WRX/Sti RSB or get the 22mm adjustable whiteline. (budget dependent).

 

With the raptors I do not recommend the stock suspension set up at all. The power increase is far too significant.

 

As for the struts/springs, ask around and see what people like. Perscitus is running a bilistein setup while Fredrick ran coil overs when he owned his. I personally plan on going wit the 2013/2014 stock suspension and a different set of springs. but regardless you'll want to upgrade them.

 

Youre looking at 30-40hp/100-130 tq increase. Insane I know but think of it rather as...youre allowing the engine to breathe not pushing her harder. You will see increased gas mileage too. I can consistently get 30 on the highway driving 75mph now.

 

Its not cheap, tuning never is, but unlike most cars you'll actually increase the life of your legacy with the headers as the pressure in the engine is reduced.

 

Pick your tuner wisely, the difference is significant and there are very few shops who can tune our cars safely and correctly. I'm currently running an AMR tune, I know Perscitus is running XRT, personally I recommend XRT if you can. (just bought a house, too poor to get the new tune yet)

Edited January 6, 2016 by Golferdude1087

[GhiaAddict]

Thanks for the info. I agree with you on all points.

 

I feel the headers and upgraded mid-pipe although very beneficial in the performance category will extend the life of the engine as you stated by letting the car breathe easier.

 

I will look into the 2013 FSB, was definitely looking at getting the 22mm Whiteline adjustable RSB as my first suspension modification. Was looking into Swift Springs as they are made to work with stock struts for now, but most likely will get the Tein Basics, as I don't intend on tracking the car or lowering it more than 2" so I figure the Tein Basic struts should provide adequate dampening for a 1.3-1.5" drop.

 

Definitely planning on XRT for tuning as the 5EAT tuning he provides has great reviews from both Legacy and Outback owners.

 

I live in Florida, so I may go Mild steel and have it ceramic coated, unless I can purchase the Stainless for a good price.

 

Once again thanks for the info. Wife literally gave birth a couple of days ago so it will be a few months before mods start happening, but hopefully by end of 2016 I will have suspension and performance mods completed, to be followed by wheels in 2017.

[KFCConspiracy]

FAST of West Chester (In PA) did my midpipe with the high flow cats for around 1200 bucks in stainless steel with the high flow cats included in that price.... That's what I was hinting at when I said shop the project around... Plus the time I saved by not having to drive 3 hours each way to AMR.

 

I'm currently running an AMR tune. My results are similar to Golfer's as far as MPG, etc. But I'd like to switch to XRT because I find the transmission's shift points leave a lot to be desired. So if I were you, I'd do XRT. I'm probably going to get it done this spring.

 

As far as suspension, I have a 2013, so I have the 2013 FSB. I upgraded the RSB to a 22mm Whiteline adjustable at the medium setting. I upgraded my endlinks all around to Kartboy, and my front bushings to poly. That's a pretty good place to start, those changes have made the car noticeably more nimble and grippy. Also if you're not running summer tires yet, I'd recommend that as well.

Edited January 7, 2016 by KFCConspiracy

[Golferdude1087]

Make a note, when you go to the 2013 FSB, make sure the raptors come with the spacers (confirm with Tim @ raptor) because if not it will rub on the sway and bad things could happen..

[FLlegacy]

Thanks for the info. I agree with you on all points.

 

I feel the headers and upgraded mid-pipe although very beneficial in the performance category will extend the life of the engine as you stated by letting the car breathe easier.

 

I will look into the 2013 FSB, was definitely looking at getting the 22mm Whiteline adjustable RSB as my first suspension modification. Was looking into Swift Springs as they are made to work with stock struts for now, but most likely will get the Tein Basics, as I don't intend on tracking the car or lowering it more than 2" so I figure the Tein Basic struts should provide adequate dampening for a 1.3-1.5" drop.

 

Definitely planning on XRT for tuning as the 5EAT tuning he provides has great reviews from both Legacy and Outback owners.

 

I live in Florida, so I may go Mild steel and have it ceramic coated, unless I can purchase the Stainless for a good price.

 

Once again thanks for the info. Wife literally gave birth a couple of days ago so it will be a few months before mods start happening, but hopefully by end of 2016 I will have suspension and performance mods completed, to be followed by wheels in 2017.

I would leave the cats, those are still covered under the emissions warranty which is not the same as the powertrain one. And although Florida doesn't require emissions certification yet it is bad for the environment, the one we all share! The idea you are going to make more power and increase the engines lifespan is kind of misplaced IME the more power an engine makes the shorter the life, due to the increased stress on the engine internals.

 

As for exhaust material aluminized metal will last a long time in our area, and look decent.

 

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[Golferdude1087]

The cats don't affect the power, but from most of the experiences on the board the tune from the raptors will destroy them way ahead of their life expectancy. Its one of those you're going to replace your cats, the question is when.

 

As for the Longevity, its more a theory because our engines are so strangled for Oxygen on the back end pre-raptor. Unlike in a turbo setup we are only advancing timing, increasing flow, and upping the Octane we put in our cars, the internal stress should be the same if not less. It was explained to me by thinking of the before as being on the summit of Everest and the after as being on the base.

 

That said, most of our cars have well under 100k and subaru's last a very, very long time anyway so longevity might be a moot point.

[GhiaAddict]

Yes the stress on engine internals goes completely unaffected with headers, mid-pipe, etc. Only time there is increased stress is when you get into the world of forced induction or nitrous. The small primaries on the stock 3.6R headers actually cause more damage because the exhaust system is so restricted you could run the risk of damaging exhaust valves. Luckily if these cars last over 150k as-is, releasing that restriction will only make the engine internally breath much better.

[FLlegacy]

Yes the stress on engine internals goes completely unaffected with headers, mid-pipe, etc. Only time there is increased stress is when you get into the world of forced induction or nitrous. The small primaries on the stock 3.6R headers actually cause more damage because the exhaust system is so restricted you could run the risk of damaging exhaust valves. Luckily if these cars last over 150k as-is, releasing that restriction will only make the engine internally breath much better.

Increasing output of the engine would require increasing cylinder pressure to make the power. Hence increased wear, albeit in this case incrementally increased. Suppose you add 20k miles to the life of the exhaust valves and remove 20k miles from the life of the main bearings or rods. Is engine really going to last longer?

 

Either way I don't think it will make a huge difference in the overall life expectancy.

 

It's a matter of give and take, a good analogy I have heard is

 

Hours/horsepower = engine life

 

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[Golferdude1087]

True, maybe I should have worded it this way.

 

By doing this upgrade and adding power you won't be reducing your life expectancy in any significant way (so we think). I guess thats what I meant by increased expectancy. Increased from what you'd expect that power should give.

[FLlegacy]

I would be curious to see a dyno run with and without the cats or with the stockers and with hi flow ones. Just for curiosity sake.

 

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[Golferdude1087]

I would be curious to see a dyno run with and without the cats or with the stockers and with hi flow ones. Just for curiosity sake.

 

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Perscitus might have that somewhere, ask him about it. I know he's had multiple dynos so he, might have those 2

 

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[FLlegacy]

I will check out his thread if he did them they are probably there.

 

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[GhiaAddict]

I agree I could've worded it better. As is, lets assume I go with XRT for their tune for both the engine and the 5EAT tuning.

 

My only intake upgrade I foresee would be a nice high-flo panel filter. Yes you could see more gains by going with the Takeda, but as you increase intake tube size you increase pressure and my argument is only to increase velocity/efficiency.

 

The XRT tune will make the engine run at its optimum capabilities under WOT, yet under daily use of say up to 4k rpms, the engine will be tuned for MPG. As we know these 3.6Rs are pretty rich from the factory.

 

So yes in the case of running the engine up to redline, the engine will see some added stress but at a tuned state of ignition and fuel. Yet with the curved ignition and fuel under 4k bringing the air/fuel ratio to a leaner but safe state you are preventing carbon build up which increases engine life. The benefit of the headers and catless/hi-flow cats only releases all that cylinder pressure at a faster rate, so your EGTs should drop significantly which as I stated reduces exhaust valve wear and tear.

 

Everything has its give and take. I've been driving a rental car for the past 6 years and haven't paid for gas, insurance, maintenance, etc. in that same time. So when I get my tune from XRT, it requires for 93 octane which only improves efficiency/longevity as most of my driving will be highway at 80mph. Better fuel/cleaner internal engine, also with the change to a high quality synthetic oil will reduce cylinder wear and increase bearing life.

 

As I wrote above everything has its give and take. I still have plenty of time to decide if I want to go catless/hi-flo cats when it comes to the midpipe. This site has been super informative.

 

My overall end game is to have power levels similar to a BMW M3 4-door, a car I've wanted since I got my learners permit at 15. Make it handle better than a BMW M3. In 2 years my current company will provide me with a substantial vehicle allowance, so I may be upgrading to a BMW M3, but I think by that time, if I have the car tuned both engine and suspension I won't find a need to and just use that money to pay off my Legacy sooner.

 

Perscitus's build has shown me the FORCE is STRONG within the 3.6R. Lets call him Luke and call XRT Yoda.

[Golferdude1087]

I probably should have mentioned a dry flow element was highly recommended before the raptor install/tune.

 

The only way the H6 compares to the M4 is forced induction. And then it's another world with internals and stuff.

 

Perscitus on XRT prolly gets 315-320BHP and 370 torque. and he probably has the most powrr of all our NA 3.6Rs

 

I know Fredricks coil over setup was significantly better then a 2015 STI so you might need that to compare to the M

 

The BMW like all German cars are expensive to maintain so if you can afford that, I would go M, it's another class then our subarus are unless you want to drop thousands to make it compare in just performance. Creature comforts..yeah..no dice there

 

Keep us informed on your build though!

 

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[fredrik94087]

$80,000+ for an M4. No friggin' way!!!

 

$27,000 WRX

$16,000 Stage2+ and installs/dyno/tune/etc.

$43,000 so far.

 

I will stick with a stage2+ WRX even if I have to get a built motor eventually and rebuild that every 50,000 miles...IF.

 

My better handling 3.6R didn't necessarily mean a better ride than a BMW. It was as driveable as OEM but handled much better.

[Golferdude1087]

Can i borrow 16k from you? lol

 

Fredrick - have you taken your car to the drag strip yet?

 

Oh update: I have just scheduled to go into the shop in april and get the magnaflow exhaust added as well as the 2013-2014 Springs with Koni, yellows (sort of an inbetween stock and Perscitus). I also am seeing about adding a GT hood scoop and getting dyno time to see what the XRT tune is actually putting down. So this spring should be fun unless my wife kills me.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Golferdude1087

[fredrik94087]

yes but at stage1. i have yet to do a road course in my wrx. soon though as things warm up.

 

may i suggest rce black springs instead. the ride is better than oem in every way when mated with konis.

 

the gt hood is at your discretion and a dyno is moot unless you have a base run on the very same dyno.

 

save that $$ for other things.

[Golferdude1087]

yes but at stage1. i have yet to do a road course in my wrx. soon though as things warm up.

 

may i suggest rce black springs instead. the ride is better than oem in every way when mated with konis.

 

the gt hood is at your discretion and a dyno is moot unless you have a base run on the very same dyno.

 

save that $$ for other things.

Will the RCE do either of the following

1) drop the height?

2) better ride as in handling, or comfort?

 

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[Zee199969]

Will the RCE do either of the following

1) drop the height?

2) better ride as in handling, or comfort?

 

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I'm running RCE Blacks and konis. Drop is around 1" initially and settling down to around 1.25". As for the ride, it runs pretty smooth, enough so that my almost 3 and almost 1yr old kids quickly fall asleep and my wife doesn't complain [emoji16]

 

Its a more aggressive than stock setup, but that's to be expected coming from the boatiness of the stock 2010-2012 suspension. If you do go this route, I've found that a 1.25 turn on the front and 1turn in the rear shocks give me the aggressive yet daily-able ride

[Golferdude1087]

I live on a street where my car already nearly bottoms out, that scares me but I'll measure the clearance to confirm.

 

Will you feel every bump in the road or mostly muted? PA is pothole central so bumps will happen, and the wife is my second concern.

 

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[Zee199969]

I live on a street where my car already nearly bottoms out, that scares me but I'll measure the clearance to confirm.

 

Will you feel every bump in the road or mostly muted? PA is pothole central so bumps will happen, and the wife is my second concern.

 

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Hmm if your area is pothole central, maybe sticking with OEM 2013-14 springs would better serve you and everything under your car. I've occasionally bottomed out but only when there is a big bump in teh asphalt that I didn't immediately see. I have a primitive plate so I don't worry too much, but I try to avoid those situations as much as I can.

 

On smooth to mostly smooth roads, I havent noticed a whole lot of extra ride harshness.

[Golferdude1087]

The roads are utter crap, I can periodically feel it through the stock suspension. I bottom out more then I like to admit. If it was smooth I would totally go bilistein/RCE black.

 

It's just a matter of adapting to surroundings I guess

 

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[fredrik94087]

you may have bottomed out due to worn shocks rather than ride height.

[GhiaAddict]

Whoa, never said I intended on buying a new M4.. Not that rich... Probably a used M3. Is Percitus putting down 300whp-370ft lb to the wheels or is that to the engine? Because AWD hp and RWD hp are two very different things.