Tore down engine, noticeable problems? (pics)

[rizzors25]

This is a 2005 Legacy GT, 116k, apparently with the ej257 block.

 

See Whats wrong with my car - video inside for details

 

Tore the engine down because of the noise, figured I would do head gaskets regardless. Having a loud valve type noise from the driver's side, quieter version of the same from the passenger side. Didn't sound like rod knock, couldn't really hear much from the block (screwdriver to ear noise test ha). I've had an engine with rod knock before, sounds a bit different, but I'm no pro.

 

Anyway, took some photos of the cylinders and heads, anything stand out? There is some minor scoring in one cylinder, other than that I'm not sure. Cross hatching looks good everywhere. Going to get the heads inspected this week.

 

Head 1

 

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/shankskank/Legacy%20GT/LGTEngine3_zps62cb2c25.jpg

 

Head 2

 

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/shankskank/Legacy%20GT/LGTEngine4_zpsacb101e0.jpg

 

Cylinder with scoring - can't feel the scoring by touch

 

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/shankskank/Legacy%20GT/LGTEngine2_zps3472ef18.jpg

 

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/shankskank/Legacy%20GT/LGTEngine6_zpsefb18570.jpg

 

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/shankskank/Legacy%20GT/LGTEngine5_zpse12e2b1f.jpg

 

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/shankskank/Legacy%20GT/LGTEngine1_zps38d01060.jpg

[Max Capacity]

have you PM dave aka, cryo his a tuner close to you.

 

He may be some help.

 

I can't view the pitures here at work.

 

I have pictures of my old block at 154,000 miles in my click here link.

[rizzors25]

Thanks! I actually just started talking to him a couple weeks ago regarding tuning. I have a BNR16G and a turboback ready plus a few more things that he'll tune up for me hopefully.

 

So yea the scoring on your cylinder looks a lot worse than the one I have. I'll see if I can grab a better photo tonight of the scoring

[rob-2]

It's hard to tell but is that carbon build up alone or is the physical metal imperfect now?

[rizzors25]

That is carbon buildup actually, haven't had a chance to go in and get some of that out

[rob-2]

Are you considering honing and putting new pistons in?

 

At this point if I had the motor a part as you do that's what I'd be doing.

[rizzors25]

I have not, I was thinking the engine is still fairly young. I think I'm only going to mess with the block if I have to ha

[dbrunone]

Mine has had a slight knocking-type noise since 10k, almost a soft diesel noise, comes and goes but is present probably 80% of the time. Motor has over 100k now and no issues. Tuner thought it was a loose heat shield but couldnt find anything. Maybe yours is something similar. Heres a vid I took awhile ago, turn up the volume at the beginning [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4my6sxS7-b8]07 legacy spec.b clattering noise - YouTube[/ame]

 

I don't plan on tearing down my motor for this, it's lasted 100k so obviously its not something catastrophic

[MAP]

Damn, can't believe you took it apart for that sound, like I mentioned before, thats what my car sounds like. I'm at 112k... I'd say it looks pretty good for the mileage. I'd be curious to see if you have any cracked ringlands. If you do take pistons out make sure to inspect closely for that. If all these engines do suffer from that you would think you should see some signs even if not severe.

If it's not present then I would say the cracked ringlands others experience may be due to overboosting??

[Max Capacity]

OP, looks a valve seal is leaking and why is everything so wet ?

 

 

Your noise sounds like valve adjustments are off. But that was on fast idle too, wasn't it?

 

 

 

Have the heads rebuilt.

[ehsnils]

Have the heads rebuilt.

 

 

It looks like the amount of oil is similar for all cylinders, in which case I would also look at the crankcase ventilation - and of course the pistons and rings.

 

No serious problems at least, and it's a lot nicer and easier to start from an engine that hasn't gone bad.

 

So now OP can add to the wishlist for Christmas:

 

• Carillo rods: http://realstreetperformance.com/store/carrillo-pro-h-beam-1100hp-rods-subaru-wrx-sti-ej25-ej255-ej257-1386.html
  
• Billet pistons: http://www.jepistons.com/Catalogs/Sport-Compact/Subaru/ej257-billet.aspx
  
• Billet crankshaft: http://www.flatironstuning.com/p-1968-crawford-performance-billet-crankshaft.aspx
  
• Lightweight flywheel: http://www.rallysportdirect.com/Exedy-FF502-Lightweight-Flywheel
  
• Lightweight crank pulley: http://www.grimmspeed.com/lightweight-crank-pulley-subaru/
  
• New camshafts for more power!
  
• Bigger turbo!
  
• And top it off with a serious clutch and a tuning!
  

http://www.bedug.com/pics/smiley/smiley-nos.gif

[rizzors25]

Haha damn that is quite the list. Someday maybe.

 

Should be taking the heads in today for inspection

[Max Capacity]

 

It looks like the amount of oil is similar for all cylinders, in which case I would also look at the crankcase ventilation - and of course the pistons and rings.

 

No serious problems at least, and it's a lot nicer and easier to start from an engine that hasn't gone bad.

 

So now OP can add to the wishlist for Christmas:

 

• Carillo rods: http://realstreetperformance.com/store/carrillo-pro-h-beam-1100hp-rods-subaru-wrx-sti-ej25-ej255-ej257-1386.html
  
• Billet pistons: http://www.jepistons.com/Catalogs/Sport-Compact/Subaru/ej257-billet.aspx
  
• Billet crankshaft: http://www.flatironstuning.com/p-1968-crawford-performance-billet-crankshaft.aspx
  
• Lightweight flywheel: http://www.rallysportdirect.com/Exedy-FF502-Lightweight-Flywheel
  
• Lightweight crank pulley: http://www.grimmspeed.com/lightweight-crank-pulley-subaru/
  
• New camshafts for more power!
  
• Bigger turbo!
  
• And top it off with a serious clutch and a tuning!
  

http://www.bedug.com/pics/smiley/smiley-nos.gif

 

 

Don't mind him, like most of us, he like's to spend other peoples money...

[rob-2]

I have not, I was thinking the engine is still fairly young. I think I'm only going to mess with the block if I have to ha

 

Would seem silly to pull and not change out pistons. Hopefully comp doesn't change after the rebuild

[rizzors25]

I guess I could do that if it didn't cost too much. I would really like to not touch the block if I don't have to but we'll see. would you just go with oem replacements? Not terribly interesting in somewhat building this motor

[Max Capacity]

Talk to the machine shop. They should have a idea which replacement pistons they have good luck with.

 

Have them assemble the long block with ARP head studs and timing belt. I may cost a few $$'s but well worth the piece of mind.

 

That is as long as they do subaru's all the time as my guy did.

 

The new ej257 short block is like $1600 now.

[rob-2]

I guess I could do that if it didn't cost too much. I would really like to not touch the block if I don't have to but we'll see. would you just go with oem replacements? Not terribly interesting in somewhat building this motor

 

OEM isn't bad. I went forged for added knock protection.

[ehsnils]

You should at least inspect the pistons to make sure that they are good, it would be a real pain in the butt to have a ringland failure right after engine assembly.

[rizzors25]

Took everything to a local shop (suba performance, very cool guys!) they said the block is fine, no worries there. They are a bit busy so I have to wait a few days on the heads but they are going to check them out and do whatever is necessary to get them back to shape.

 

Good news!

[Max Capacity]

GOod to hear.

Now while it's out do you know all the little things that you should check and clean ?

 

Like the ground points, hoses, gas line clamps. Orange o-rings between the intake and TGV's ?

 

Will the shop be getting the gasket set ?

 

Will they be assembling the long block and timing belt ?

 

Have you viewed my click here link ?

 

Oh yea, tell them to remove both banjo filters.

[rizzors25]

I did view your link. I will be buying all the gaskets and timing components and whatnot from a different shop where a well informed subaru friend of mine works (flatirons tuning). All the nice little rubber seals and everything will get replaced while its out. He is going to set me up with a kit that should have more or less every seal for that ej257. Should be a good deal.

 

I'll be assembling the long block with the timing belt. i've done it before a couple times on an ej255 and a few times on ej22/ej25 sohc which was a bit easier. Not too worried about that

[Max Capacity]

Good for you. Make sure you keep us updated and let us know how she runs.

[rizzors25]

Suba Performance went through all the heads, all the exhaust valves failed, some of the intake valves are pretty bad. In the end, something like 2 valves are ok ha.

 

So they are going to go through and fix them up with Brian Crower valves and I'll get this car back up and running

[MAP]

So what exactly does failed mean?

The engine was running fine....right... other than the sound you heard(which sounds normal in the video but might sound different in person)

How can 14 of 16 valves be bad and the engine runs fine?

Was the surface of the valve that rests on the valve seat badly pitted?

Excuse my ignorance but why cant they grind the subaru valves?

I dont understand how all those valves can be bad if the engine is running fine.

[rizzors25]

Hey sorry about the confusion.

 

So the engine could run, but it didn't run well. You can hear some bad noise from the video and I'm guessing it would probably not make very good power based off whats going on inside the heads. So the video didn't do it great justice but the valve noise was pretty loud in person, definitely more than just cold start or typical subaru valve noise, something to for sure be concerned about.

 

The tech explained to me this morning that the valve surface itself was concave due to (most likely) bad gas or low grade gas which he thinks caused improper detonation which destroyed the valves with time. He said the valves could technically be ground back to flat but you would have to in turn do some machining to the heads and at that point the labor gets quite time intensive which ends up hurting my wallet more.

Thankfully the heads are in pretty decent shape; the valves took the brunt of the damage so it won't take them long to get everything back in good shape with new valves.

 

The engine could run but just not very well. Lots of leaking through the valves which obviously isn't good but not bad enough to prevent the engine from running. I guess I should say the engine didn't run fine, there was clearly a problem during operation.