Can I fit snow chains on 235/45/17 tires?

[BlkLegacyGT]

If u have clearance issues check these out [ame=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Snowchains-MITA-Next-Generation-Chains/dp/B006J8HWSK]Snowchains - MITA Next Generation Snow Chains: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike[/ame]

[lockmedic]

^^ Did you read the reviews of those?

[JmP6889928]

^^ Did you read the reviews of those?

 

I can't even begin to imagine the amount of damage those would cause if they were being run at even 50 mph and deployed themselves off of the tire and shredded everything in their path. I would bet that it would be in the thousands of dollars with inner fender, strut, brake hoses, ABS sensors, not to mention fender, door, rocker panel, bumper, exhaust system, axle boots and axle, AT cooler lines, driveshaft, exhaust shields, undertray, wheel, tire, undercovers down the side of the vehicle and even more.

 

Those things would be a high speed cheese grater on every single part they even got near. NO THANKS.

[Max Capacity]

Yea ^ did someone above mention studded snow tires...

 

Or just get a motel room for the night...cost less then buying four tires.

[JmP6889928]

Have you installed chains on any car before? It sounds like you think they're massive.

 

Does his 06 have traction control?

 

The center diff is purely fluid and regularly transfers more power to the fronts anyway. It's not a locking center diff which could pose a problem.

 

ABS is brake related. It will only function when a lock up is detected. Not wheel spin.

 

So to really shit on your little ignorant rant fest. Co-worker has a 99 subi which they regularly throw chains on the fronts instead of buying snow tires when driving in the mountains. It's got some 160k and it's all original gear.

 

Please go talk about something you know something about.

 

By the way, you couldn't "shit on my little ignorant rant fest" as you attempted to so eloquently put it, if you had 56 people helping you. I forgot more about cars just yesterday than you'll ever know if you live to be 261 years old.

 

It's very difficult for me to have a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed. Bring lunch and friends next time.

[lockmedic]

swing by TN. . I'll loan you my Blizzaks. . . at least someone might get to use them :-)

 

. . .although it is snowing here today. Doubt it'll stick. Pretty sure I'll be fine driving home on my silly Conti DWS's.

[BlkLegacyGT]

Hey he wanted chains, I just thought I'd mention another alternative to the actual chains. And no I havent read the reviews.

[BlkLegacyGT]

But I just did read the reviews and damn they sound like they do suck! Makes me want to kick myself for recommending them, thought they looked like a good alternative when I first seen them 2 weeks ago!

[rob-2]

AGAIN, as always, WRONG. ABS is NOT purely brake related. The wheel speed sensors on ABS run everything from traction control to speedometer to ABS braking systems. You know nothing, it's been proven about a hundred times, and you've never even had your own hands dirty working on anything at all.

 

First and foremost, ANY time you change the aspect ratios of front and rear on an all wheel drive vehicle, even by 1/4" (according to Subaru's OWN manual) you risk excessive heat and slippage on the center differential, not to mention it can cause the vehicle to behave violently when front and rear are not the same. The center differentials are NOT just fluid but a clutch pack system that uses fluid as lubricant and coolant and is designed to slip as power is transferred to the wheels that are indicated as slipping (VIA THE ABS SYSTEM SENSING THE SLIPPAGE AND APPLYING BRAKING TO THE WHEELS THAT ARE SPINNING EXCESSIVELY).

 

I can tell you that I've put chains on vehicles for most of my life and I would bet that you've never even touched one with your own hands. I ran tow trucks years ago that we had to put chains on due to requirements via the State Police when the weather reached a certain point.

 

Why don't you, Rob, tell us exactly how you install chains, since you seem to know all? I would really like to hear/read it and I'll know if you cut and pasted from a website. You are full of shit, have always been full of shit, and will always be full of shit. You can't do anything yourself except rant on how damn great your stinking Honda is and try to cause trouble for anyone else that does happen to like their Subaru.

 

SELL your Subaru, and go and bother the Honda forums.

 

I believe the service manual has been posted stating fronts. There is a debates over if doing a lot of hill climbing to put it on the rears, but for every other situation you're going to want fronts.

 

There are a few different types of chains out there. The ones I use require that you drive over the chain and connect very tightly the inside 'loop'. Direction is key and if installed backwards they will come undone.

 

You then pull the outter loop tight and using the provided very big and strong rubber strap connect all the little 'hooks' to the rubber band (for lack of a better term). This band pulls everything tight but can also cause the hooks to scratch your rims.

 

Generally when used I've driven a few miles and checked again. Installing them tightly and staying below 25mph prevents them from taking out brake lines. In my case my cars all have stainless brake lines so the risk is reduced of total brake failure by a chain coming undone.

 

You're way over top, rude and ignorant. Please stop talking to me, ignore anything I have to say and avoid replying. You're full out a moron and no one should listen to anything you have to say.

 

FYI - my ABS system isn't looking for those metrics because my car doesn't have traction control and the AWD system has no 'smarts'. It's only looking for wheel speed upon braking to apply abs if a wheel 'lock up' is detected. As you're aware there is some 'slack' in that calculation before it kicks in.

 

The speed of the vehicle is picked up in the tranny not caculated by all four wheels.

 

Please do really shut up.

 

OP - run chains if you like on the fronts.

[rob-2]

If this comes from a Subaru service manual, please post the cover of it. If this in fact DOES come from a Subaru service manual, then I do apologize to Rob-2 for his "correct" statement about putting chains on the front only as obviously he has read the service/owner's manual thoroughly and his ONLY source of information comes directly from here. Based on my earlier invitation to Rob-2 to describe how to install chains, his lack of response proves that it's painfully obvious he has not ever installed chains on a vehicle of any type.

 

However, based on this source of information, his statement regarding possible damage to the center differential and transmission of: "They don't really do this because they dig into the snow. He's not going to ruin his tranny. If he does just the fronts it's not much of a problem." does have a very, very small bit of truth in that this is exactly what the owner's manual states. As usual, information from Rob-2 comes from something he's read but absolutely no practical knowledge or experience with anything. Everyone will notice that the tire listing has absolutely no accommodation for a tire size of 235/45-R17 (it DOES, however, state "2.5 liter turbo models <except Outback>: 215/45ZR17 tires) which is substantially wider than the stock tires, and the statement that speeds should not reach more than 19 m.p.h., it brings three questions to mind:

 

The first and most relevant question: "Why does Subaru specify that the speed not reach higher than 19 m.p.h.?" (on the few vehicles that you CAN, in fact, install tire chains on).

 

Second question: Seeing as how this was almost quoted word for word by Rob-2, practical knowledge seems to go right out the window. As always from this particular poster, it is nothing except an echo of what was read somewhere, and, in the application stated by the OP, is irrelevant and incorrect. Had even the information posted above been read in more detail, this fact would have been immediately obvious to anyone that can read.

 

And the third question: Is this what the OP was meaning when he was asking about applying tire chains to his vehicle? His statement "I'm driving from NC to Michigan and will be passing through the WV mountains tomorrow, where there is a forecasted snow storm. My tires are Continental DWS's, the tread is decent but I don't think it'll be invincible in the snow/ice." would seem to me to rule out speeds less than 19 m.p.h. unless he was going to make a life's career out of this particular trip that normally would take about 12-14 hours.

 

It's painfully obvious that incorrect information was attempted to be imparted-NOT incorrect in that Subaru DOES in fact make a statement about tire chains and it's applications and non-applications, but rather that some statements made were "off the cuff" so to speak based on the written information's "vague" meaning without reading the details.

 

That being said, I think this particular thread has been put to bed.

 

I'm not sure what you're flapping your stupid gums about.

 

I stated what I know to be fact. I happen to live in mountain country here. So knowing about installing chains was something I learned about. Actually using them in the MOUNTAINS might surprise you flat landers from MI.

 

I appear to know A LOT more then you and frequently you come around to learning how utterly stupid you actually are. I would highly suggest that before you ever bother challenging my knowledge or question where I'm coming from you pull your head out of your ass.

 

You know nothing.

 

Questions answers:

 

1. Chain speed - it's generally accepted that chains need to be kept under 25mph because the clasps that hold them together cannot take the abuse. The risk here is they break apart and take our your brakes.

 

2. I know this for fact - you're stupid.

 

3. You wouldn't drive on chains the entire way you fool . The fact you ask this suggests you know nothing of what you speak of. Many mountain passes will be restricted to 4x4/awd with snows (A/S often qualify) or FWD/RWD with chains. In these resticted areas, due to snow fall or ice speed is limited to 25mph. Chain drivers are found in the slow lane while 4x4/awd will typically be going a tad faster 40-50 in my experience.

 

Again you suggest I don't know chains. I actually own them. Thank you and shut up. You're an utter moron living behind a computer.

[JmP6889928]

I'm not sure what you're flapping your stupid gums about.

 

I stated what I know to be fact. I happen to live in mountain country here. So knowing about installing chains was something I learned about. Actually using them in the MOUNTAINS might surprise you flat landers from MI.

 

I appear to know A LOT more then you and frequently you come around to learning how utterly stupid you actually are. I would highly suggest that before you ever bother challenging my knowledge or question where I'm coming from you pull your head out of your ass.

 

You know neither nothing.

 

Again you suggest I don't know chains. I actually own them. Thank you and shut up.

 

ROTFLMMFAO....As always, the man with the witty comebacks. You are priceless and useless. EVERYONE on these forums knows who you are and what you're about, which is absolutely nothing of importance. Several people have PM'd you to just tell you to STFU because that would be best for all.

 

AGAIN....LMMFAO at your inane and stupid response. :lol::lol::lol:

 

Oh....and use spell checker. Your grammar and ability to actually string together full sentences is pathetic. LMAO

[rob-2]

<---- Wait...these cars need chains?! I've been doing it wrong all this time.

 

Ok, being all serious. With ill fitting chains or cables, chances of severing your brake line or ABS sensor wire is not worth the risk.

 

Keep in mind those risks apply to all cars. Aftermarket tire sizes typically increase this risk as do those that do not know how to install chains.

[rob-2]

ROTFLMMFAO....As always, the man with the witty comebacks. You are priceless and useless. EVERYONE on these forums knows who you are and what you're about, which is absolutely nothing of importance. Several people have PM'd you to just tell you to STFU because that would be best for all.

 

AGAIN....LMMFAO at your inane and stupid response. :lol::lol::lol:

 

Oh....and use spell checker. Your grammar and ability to actually string together full sentences is pathetic. LMAO

 

So it appears I know chains. My typing isn't the best and there are a few others like you. Your point exactly?

 

Chains can be used on the fronts, which you stated otherwise. Sir you are a fool.

[rob-2]

Lets run down the list:

 

JmP6889928 states chains cannot be used without ruining the car - false

JmP6889928 claims rob-2 doesn't know how to install changes - false

JmP6889928 claims rob-2 is quoting some installing source - false

JmP6889928 claims rob-2 quoted speed from some source - false

JmP6889928 claims abs is used for vehicle speed - false

JmP6889928 claims abs sensor are used for things that my vehicle year doesn't have (traction control or vehicle stability)- false

JmP6889928 has similarly stupid people on this forum - true stupid is more common then smart. Statistically 67% of the people online should side with him. This assumes JmP6889928 is <70% average intel. Or just slightly right on the bell curve.

 

JmP6889928 in the case where traction control is used its helpful to remember this can be turned off as can vehicle stability. In my personal experience I've found these systems to be helpful when driving in mixed conditions. In a full out snow storm or ice it's been my personal experience that turning these items off while driving in mountain passes can make the vehicle more controllable. There have been a few cases where if the system was on I would have been limited in my ability to rotate or direct the car out of harms way. Unfortunately ABS has not been given this option and if you did your research you'd see ABS has been directly linked to an increase in vehicle roll overs - I want to say in the area of a 40% increase according the IIHS.

 

JmP6889928 lets humor you on the traction control for a moment. Should the fronts have more traction then the rears on a 'smart' AWD system the system will direct more power to the fronts with the chains. No damaged done. On a stupid system the fluid system will direct more power to the wheels front and x% rear no matter what.

 

JmP6889928 lets humor you on the vehicle stability for a moment. While driving the ECU learns the fronts have far more grip then rears. The vehicle begins to rotate sideways. The brakes are going to be applied in the same manner as if there weren't chains. All the ECU is going to know is that the vehicle is displaying the inputs that require corrective action and that according to the ABS sensors the fronts have more grip. Within the framework of the logic the system has been designed with it will attempt to put the car where it believes the driver wants it. In a case where all 4 tires have little to no grip your vehicle stability is rendered unusable. This becomes rather moot chains or not.

 

JmP6889928 you don't have a leg to stand on. My typing/grammar might be off but you're just stupid. Good spelling or not you don't know what you're talking about.

[JmP6889928]

Lets run down the list:

 

JmP6889928 states chains cannot be used without ruining the car - false

JmP6889928 claims rob-2 doesn't know how to install changes - false

JmP6889928 claims rob-2 is quoting some installing source - false

JmP6889928 claims rob-2 quoted speed from some source - false

JmP6889928 claims abs is used for vehicle speed - false

JmP6889928 claims abs sensor are used for things that my vehicle year doesn't have (traction control or vehicle stability)- false

JmP6889928 has similarly stupid people on this forum - true stupid is more common then smart. Statistically 67% of the people online should side with him. This assumes JmP6889928 is <70% average intel. Or just slightly right on the bell curve.

 

JmP6889928 in the case where traction control is used its helpful to remember this can be turned off as can vehicle stability. In my personal experience I've found these systems to be helpful when driving in mixed conditions. In a full out snow storm or ice it's been my personal experience that turning these items off while driving in mountain passes can make the vehicle more controllable. There have been a few cases where if the system was on I would have been limited in my ability to rotate or direct the car out of harms way. Unfortunately ABS has not been given this option and if you did your research you'd see ABS has been directly linked to an increase in vehicle roll overs - I want to say in the area of a 40% increase according the IIHS.

 

JmP6889928 lets humor you on the traction control for a moment. Should the fronts have more traction then the rears on a 'smart' AWD system the system will direct more power to the fronts with the chains. No damaged done. On a stupid system the fluid system will direct more power to the wheels front and x% rear no matter what.

 

JmP6889928 lets humor you on the vehicle stability for a moment. While driving the ECU learns the fronts have far more grip then rears. The vehicle begins to rotate sideways. The brakes are going to be applied in the same manner as if there weren't chains. All the ECU is going to know is that the vehicle is displaying the inputs that require corrective action and that according to the ABS sensors the fronts have more grip. Within the framework of the logic the system has been designed with it will attempt to put the car where it believes the driver wants it. In a case where all 4 tires have little to no grip your vehicle stability is rendered unusable. This becomes rather moot chains or not.

 

JmP6889928 you don't have a leg to stand on. My typing/grammar might be off but you're just stupid. Good spelling or not you don't know what you're talking about.

 

LMMFAO AGAIN. Your stupidity is only exceeded by your complete and utter ineptitude in everything that is involved in anything to do with automotive. I truly wonder if your mother had any children that lived. EVERYTHING you've listed is wrong, as usual, and my previous posts prove it all.

 

I truly love seeing your asinine posts because they are so easy to destroy due to your absolute and complete lack of knowledge regarding anything to do with automobiles. When you do post, your true identity comes through in the fact that you search for newbie posts to inflict your inane opinions and stupid comments on and generally, when you come across anyone that knows anything about cars, you go away. You've chosen a fight here that you simply cannot win, no matter what kind of shit you try to spew. Your instigation practices won't work anymore because I'll simply prove that everything you spout off about is wrong, which is so easy, it's become fun for me.

 

The wonderful part is that my words in the previous posts stand on their own and anyone that can read knows that they are all true. Your posts, not only in this particular thread, but in EVERY thread you've been involved in, prove without a shadow of a doubt that you are, in fact, a moron. Every fact you've stated above is inaccurate. EVERY single one. And that alone proves my point (similar to the one on top of your head) and that is that you are inept and have no business commenting on ANYTHING to do with automotive.

 

Go back to your Hondahole and leave the newbies alone. You can try to shoot arrows at me, but I laugh in your face because you haven't the ability to even begin to talk on a level that a fourth grader could understand. Your automotive knowledge can be summed up in a single word:

 

NONE!

 

That's enough. I wash my hands of you, at least on this particular thread. My suggestion to you is to put me on ignore as that would be your best bet because from this point on, I will absolutely annihilate every single post you put up that has even the tiniest bit of incorrect information. IF, and I doubt I'll run into this but I suppose it IS possible, but IF, you do happen to put up something that's actually correct, I will leave it alone, but rest assured, I will hunt and find all of your posts and will destroy you in every one that contains any falsehoods. The best part of it is that you've already done that yourself with your inane posts and incorrect information always aimed at new members. EVERYONE on this forum that's been here for any amount of time knows that anything you say is wrong, but hey, don't take my word for it, go ahead and ask others.

 

I laugh at you. Completely, totally, absolutely, in every way because you're an idiot in a knowledgeable world.

 

Cheers ! ! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[iNVAR]

http://www.thebort.com/www/Smileys/default/popcorn2.gif

 

P.S. I'm not taking sides, but rob-2, the wheel sensors do detect wheel spin and will throw a CEL/Cruise Light when you're in deep snow and trying to get out and the wheels spin a lot, regardless of if you've been applying the brakes.

[SBT]

It is the wheel sensors and their signal to the ABS Control Module that drive the speedometer, not something from the transmission.

[JmP6889928]

You know what Rob? I'm going to apologize here-publicly-in this forum for the names I have called you (moron, idiot, etc.) and the reference to your mother and her children. I was absolutely wrong to call names and make that reference and I apologize.

 

Aside from the apology, your information is still wrong, you still hunt newbies in order to impart your incorrect information, and you are still inept in anything automotive, but those are descriptive terms and nothing else. To describe assets or liabilities with predetermined readily accepted terms, if the descriptions are, in fact true, is nothing more than conversation, and I do stick by those terms.

 

The name calling has brought me to your level and I don't wish to be there, so that will stop. I will, however, as stated, hunt down your incorrect and misinformation posts and refute them with vigor and proof, which is actually not much effort on my part. You post opinions about particular products and ideas of which you have no knowledge, which is obvious from your posts, when people that have, in fact, actually used those particular products know differently. Even though you have no knowledge, you attempt to sway people's thinking because you've decided that you do or don't like something and become belligerent in your attempt to defend your position. This is where the general consensus opinion has been formed about you and your attitude. The best thing to do if you don't know or understand something, is to simply be quiet and read and learn from the people that DO know about that particular subject. I, personally, am the first to admit that I have gleaned a tremendous amount of information off of these forums that I did not know and they've helped me immensely. If I don't know about the subject, I simply read.

 

Whether your intent actually is to provide misinformation or it's due to the fact that you actually do have no knowledge, only you can say. From what I have read, as well as many others on these forums, it appears intentional. This conclusion is reached because you've stated so many times in so many posts that you hate your Subaru but you have it because "it was a big F-U to my ex-wife that had to have a Subaru and she didn't get it in my divorce".

 

Frankly, if you hate the Subaru that much, why not sell it, get your money, buy a beloved Acura or Honda and sit and worship it and fondle it and lick it and bang the tailpipe now and again? I do know it will hold still for your advances and won't care if you're out late drinking or bring home another car (gasp...a NISSAN???) for a one night stand.

 

If you sold it, I'm sure it would be much more satisfying to you and everyone knows the Subaru would be forever grateful to be away from you.

 

Cheers! :):):):):)

[lockmedic]

jeez you two. . take it outside.

 

"gentlemen, you can't fight in here. . . this is the War Room!"

 

[rob-2]

http://www.thebort.com/www/Smileys/default/popcorn2.gif

 

P.S. I'm not taking sides, but rob-2, the wheel sensors do detect wheel spin and will throw a CEL/Cruise Light when you're in deep snow and trying to get out and the wheels spin a lot, regardless of if you've been applying the brakes.

 

I've never popped a cell light for wheel spin. How many minutes would I need this to happen? I've only been stuck for 2-3 minutes spinning a front wheel and in another situation one front and one rear.

 

It is the wheel sensors and their signal to the ABS Control Module that drive the speedometer, not something from the transmission.

 

My understanding is there are two sensors on my auto tranny that give the ECU speed data. What am I missing?

[JJr]

jeez you two. . take it outside.

 

"gentlemen, you can't fight in here. . . this is the War Room!"

 

 

 

:lol: JmP6889928 is obviously George C Scott, he's got Rob-2 from behind and I'm not sure what's going to happen next, but I'm sure it's not going to be pretty !

[SBT]

My understanding is there are two sensors on my auto tranny that give the ECU speed data. What am I missing?

 

The ECU pulls information from the ABS CM and the throttle position sensor to control when the 5EAT shifts. You actually have three speed sensors in your 5EAT, none related to the speedometer AFAICD. Turbine (Torque Converter) Speed Sensor 1 and 2, and the rear wheel speed sensor. First two manage the shifts, last one provides input to manage torque distribution.

[SBT]

And we've answered the OP's question(s) about chains, so this thread is done.