Redryan98 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Hello all. I bought a 07 LGT in August. The car had 49k miles and was outfitted by the original owner with just about every SPT option that was offered (exhasut, gauges, short shift, pedals, etc...) This includes the SPT intake which has been on the car since new. I came across a thread a few days ago mentioning it may, best case "not ideal" and worst case "damaging" for the engine. I'm aware that intakes on their own don't provide much if any benefit, but according to what I read it could actually be harmful to the engine due to lean conditions. I've got a used OE stock intake on its way and will run with that until I can afford a tune and a better intake. In the mean time is there any potential damage or issues I should lookout for? I replaced the plugs at 50k and they were definitely white. However the car runs well, burns little to no oil, has a (mostly) smooth idle, and compression check revealed 145psi on each cylinder. As a side note, the intake I have coming in does not have the "scoop" portion (that connects to front of the engine bay). If anyone has one just taking up space I'd like to make an offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboboost Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I don't know enough about intakes to tell you about the long-term damage, but the rule of thumb is stock engine = stock intake, and you've already taken the right step of purchasing the OEM intake. As for the front intake air duct.. in FS forums: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/fs-tx-oem-lgt-parts-eng-cover-fuel-pump-air-214522.html ($30 + s/h from TX). Probably negotiable too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redryan98 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 I don't know enough intakes to tell you about the long-term damage, but the rule of thumb is stock engine = stock intake, and you're already taken the right step of purchasing the OEM intake. As for the front intake air duct.. in FS forums: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/fs-tx-oem-lgt-parts-eng-cover-fuel-pump-air-214522.html ($30 + s/h from TX). Probably negotiable too. Thanks man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob-2 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 The challenge is that it can cause the car to run lean. Replace it as soon as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redryan98 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 The challenge is that it can cause the car to run lean. Replace it as soon as you can. Definitely, thanks! Its my #1 priority at this point. I'm just curious if there's anything specific that may be damaged or degraded from running the SPT for 40-50k miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 The main thing to be conserned with is the "running lean" on a OEM MAP. The OEM MAP is flawed anyways. You want to get the car off the OEM MAP, that MAP alone has been known to casue burnt valves on #2 and 4 cylinders. Mainly #2. Adding a intake without a proper tune only makes the issue worse. Burnt valves in these cars is faily common here on the forum. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redryan98 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 ^I appreciate the knowledge. I was going to save getting a tune for a while and focus on other things. Seems like I should do it sooner than later. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 The main thing to be conserned with is the "running lean" on a OEM MAP. The OEM MAP is flawed anyways. You want to get the car off the OEM MAP, that MAP alone has been known to casue burnt valves on #2 and 4 cylinders. Mainly #2. Adding a intake without a proper tune only makes the issue worse. Burnt valves in these cars is faily common here on the forum. Very good advice this is my first mode when I buy my LGT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chato Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 i still want those SPT gauges. bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redryan98 Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 i still want those SPT gauges. bad. They are pretty sweet. In all honesty it was one of the reasons I took this car over another I was looking at. Makes the interior look much nicer while providing important data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterbug Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I'm new here so please excuse me if this is beat to death and I haven't came across it yet. If the OEM map is a problem what is everyone doing to fix this? Is there a aftermarket map? My outback xt is basically stock for now but I don't want to do something that will be costly later. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob-2 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 i still want those SPT gauges. bad. They aren't accurate above 3500 feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lgt-Hawj Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I just put in a new k&n filter into my 05 legacy and now it's starting harder but runs smoother.. Is that a fault at the oem map?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I'm new here so please excuse me if this is beat to death and I haven't came across it yet. If the OEM map is a problem what is everyone doing to fix this? Is there a aftermarket map? My outback xt is basically stock for now but I don't want to do something that will be costly later. Thanks You can fix the MAP flaw with a Cobb AP, or open source tune if your good with a lap top and buy the $30.00 cable to plug into the OBD2 port. At this point in the cars life some minor damage is already done. Keep a eye and ear open for differences in the way the car sounds and runs. I just put in a new k&n filter into my 05 legacy and now it's starting harder but runs smoother.. Is that a fault at the oem map?? It's getting colder out now, both my cars take a little longer to start. My 05 has had a Perrin filter since Aug04 and I put a K&N in my 09 last Spring. Make sure you don't over oil the filter. For both you guy's, have you cleaned the MAF sensor lately ? pick up a can of MAF cleaner from the auto parts store. Keep up with the oil and filter changes. Drive the car, IMO these cars work better when driven for longer distances, they don't like to be started, drove 2 miles and shut off all the time. My DD is 63 miles. Here's a link to my Tuner http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/dangerous-cylinder-trims-5th-gen-lgts-193842.html 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chato Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 They aren't accurate above 3500 feet. why do you have to ruin my fantasies with reality. Maybe they start working again at 7000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 SPT intake will NOT cause any problems with stock tune. The stock tune will NOT hurt your car. If stock tunes were hurting engines, you'd know about it. For every person out there that flashes a new tune, there are probably 30 that stay stock. There aren't that many blown up, unmodded engines out there. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 The engines don't blow up, they burn valves. Correct not every one burns valves at the same rate. I've heard from two different source's about burnt valves in Subaru's. One is the Tuner, the other my buddies automotive machine shop. He get's at least one head a week from the Subaru dealer with burnt valves. He's been geting them for years now. When he did my heads, he told me mine were the first set of these heads he's seen that didn't need any valves. My 05 has been off the OEM MAP since it had 8000 miles on it. He saw the heads with 154,000 mils on them. The proof is out there. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redryan98 Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 I didn't intend to open a can of worms with this, but appreciate everyone's input. I ended up biting the bullet and ordering an accessport V3. I'm using the excuse "just to be safe" to justify the expense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 No can of worms, I'm just stating what I know. I do have a ski buddy who drove his 05 Outback XT for 130,000 miles and had no issues with burnt valves. He had the CV boot issues, and some lug nut problems and hubs. But the engine ran fine, I don't thinkthe engine ever saw over 3500rpm. They just bought 2014 OB. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 The valves receede into the seats and the clearance gets tight.........then eventually it burns the valves. I set all my valve clearances loose when I built my motor for this very reason. The motor had 84K when I took it apart and a few of the valves had little or no clearance but no valves had been damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick916 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Does this happen with all model years? Will a Cobb Stage 1 tune fix this? I just bought my LGT a few weeks ago and came with an SPT intake, upgraded subaru turbo (unknown which one), and an unknown tune.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redryan98 Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 So, figured I'd throw in an update. I got my AP today. Pretty excited to get it installed and run an ots (for now) stage 1 tune. Low and behold, I can not. Apparently the cobb ots tunes for 07+ LGTs stage 1 (and stage 2 for that matter) are intended for stock airbox/filter only. I don't want to run the risk of messing anything up so I guess I'll hold off on the AP for now until my stock airbox comes in. Eventually I'll have it etuned for the SPT intake. Anyone out there (07+ only) use a cobb ots with an spt or aftermarket intake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPeC.B_MaZTer Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I have an 08 Spec.B with the SPT intake. I was running the COBB AP Stage II lower wastegate duty cycle map.(needs downloaded from the website), it compensated for the intake I believe, because with the OTS Stage II map, I would exceed target boost(overboosting). I love the look the SPT intake has with the SPT heat shield. The sound is perfect, not to loud, but noticeable in cabin. With that being said, I do however get a lot of stutter/surges in S# when I try to go WOT from either a roll or a complete stop. I think this is because of the bend in the piping where the MAF is located(bad design). My plan is to sell the intake and purchase the COBB SF intake and hopefully it eliminates the surge problems altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 The SPT and COBB intakes both read as close as you can get to the stock airbox. They are safe to use. It's nice that your buddy see's alot of Subaru's. Wanna know who see's more? Subaru. If Subaru had a problem with the tune that was causing problems, they would fix it. If your buddy see's one a week, Subaru would be seeing 100+. If Subaru was getting 100 a week of the same type of damage, they would issue a TSB. You guys with surging and stuttering problems... you might actually have a problem with your car. Like an air leak. Get it checked. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterbug Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 You can fix the MAP flaw with a Cobb AP, or open source tune if your good with a lap top and buy the $30.00 cable to plug into the OBD2 port. At this point in the cars life some minor damage is already done. Keep a eye and ear open for differences in the way the car sounds and runs. It's getting colder out now, both my cars take a little longer to start. My 05 has had a Perrin filter since Aug04 and I put a K&N in my 09 last Spring. Make sure you don't over oil the filter. For both you guy's, have you cleaned the MAF sensor lately ? pick up a can of MAF cleaner from the auto parts store. Keep up with the oil and filter changes. Drive the car, IMO these cars work better when driven for longer distances, they don't like to be started, drove 2 miles and shut off all the time. My DD is 63 miles. Here's a link to my Tuner http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/dangerous-cylinder-trims-5th-gen-lgts-193842.html Thank you for the info! Guess I need to get my hands on a Cobb ap then before long. I don't have a laptop or even know of any tuners around the Indy area. The car runs like a top and may have something done I don't know. He does have wrote on the fuse box rotella every 3750 miles and I can see the turbo has been removed from the looms of the bolts but not sure of anything else. The car is prestine inside and out. The only thing I'm missing is the engine cover. Next big thing is the timing belt and water pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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