manual GT vs 4motion passat

[doteleven]

Wow - this thread is a huge source of hearsay and misinformation!

 

Just for the record, the Passat has the torsen full time AWD system. The only VAG products with Haldex are the R32 (just sold mine), and the TT.

 

As for space - I think the two are comparable - I can't see the Passat being alot bigger inside than a Legacy.

 

One thing is for certain - the Passat is slower...

 

The new Passat ('06) is much, much larger. It should also be just about as fast as the Legacy with the 280HP 3.6L VR6. And way more expensive.

 

Can't say much for the reliability - neither myself nor any of us really have enough statistical information to make our observations have any validity.

[Tripod]

I think he was talking about the brand new Passat.

With the 3.6 VR6 and 4Motion in a car with as nice an interior as the Audi A6

it would make a good choice.

It should be a very quick car.

Not sure if you want an auto or manual, but even with an auto, it should

have VW's new 6 speed auto/tiptronic which is pretty good as far as autos go.

If they come in a manual, there 6 speed is pretty sweet too.

 

My guess, if you are looking at trading up from an LGT is that you want more

room and more luxury/amenities.

You'll get that with the Passat.

And if you are an automatic driver, I'm sure you MUCH prefer the torque and smooth

response of a largish more powerful V6 than the lag response a turbo-4 with an automatic gives.

 

I'm going to be checking out the new Passat soon too...just for S & G though.

Wish they'd offer that engine in the new GTI (or R series Golf) here.

The R36 then (for around $32K) would be VERY attractive.

[Tripod]

Should of read through all the replies first. Sorry.

 

But still think even at your size, the new Passat would be a better ticket

than the Outback. It'll definately have more punch.

 

But I also agree with what someone else said.

Go get a Magnum R/T

Remember is basically the Mercedes E Series platform and transmission, attached

to the already tried and true 5.7 liter V8 that pulls boats and trailers

in the Ram pickup.

It's not offered in a manual, but will still walk away from a manual XT once rolling

so you have all the power/performance you'll need.

And with the "employee pricing" you can get one for a GREAT price right now.

[SBT]

I second the idea of extending the OBXT's seat frame rails to accomodate your fit. Companies do this regularly for their customers. Your dealer may even know of a company that does this and may be able to recommend someone local to make the fix.

 

WRT the new Passat (06), I understand that it is now a transverse mounted engine (TME) so goodbye symmetrical AWD, hello torque steer. And, moving to TME, if the TT and R32 are any examples, it will use the Haldex system vs the Torsen setup for its AWD. Reliability issues aside, definitely would be off my list of AWD cars to consider.

 

SBT

[BDII]

Take it from a former Passat driver, dont buy one. they are expensive to fix, and if you dont live in the city than its even harder to find a shop that will work on it. Buy japanese

[doteleven]

I second the idea of extending the OBXT's seat frame rails to accomodate your fit. Companies do this regularly for their customers. Your dealer may even know of a company that does this and may be able to recommend someone local to make the fix.

 

WRT the new Passat (06), I understand that it is now a transverse mounted engine (TME) so goodbye symmetrical AWD, hello torque steer. And, moving to TME, if the TT and R32 are any examples, it will use the Haldex system vs the Torsen setup for its AWD. Reliability issues aside, definitely would be off my list of AWD cars to consider.

 

SBT

 

I don't understand why you are implying that a Haldex AWD system car would be off your list of cars to consider. Haldex is absolutely transparent - it is very, very hard to detect in operation when driving in inclement weather. In hard performance driving, you can occasionally detect it working. The best part about Haldex is that it is only part time AWD, and is more fuel efficient as a result. I had Haldex in my R32 and thought it was a wonderful system. I thought that it had equal traction capability and better road feel than the Audi A4 and Audi A6 cars I've owned (both with Torsen)

 

Albert

[SBT]

My comment about the Haldex was not so much directed at the Haldex, more at the transverse mount system. The engine is oriented East-West across the car instead of North-South along the car's axis. Therefore the transmission is on the East side of the engine with unequal length drive shafts (of necessity) which in every instance creates a high torque steer environment which I dislike. And, consequently, VW uses the Haldex system for its Transverse Mounted Engine drivetrain systems.

 

Previous Passats were N-S oriented and the 4Motion AWD drivetrain was very balanced though the car was nose heavy. And, as far as AWD goes, I really want full-time AWD not a semi-AWD that engages sometime (albeit usually very quickly) after slip is detected. It is a safety/full-traction issue and the Haldex as you have indicated is a semi-AWD system. Not my preference, which is why I continue to buy AWD Subarus after all these years, reduced mileage notwithstanding.

 

SBT

[SBT]

Of the VW equipped AWD TME systems (R32 included) that I've driven, all have torque steer for the very reason that was mentioned previously; the TME system coupled to a part-time AWD that "reacts" after slip. It's inherent in the design and there's no way to compensate for it, short of including a "locked" diff up front. AWD on a TME-equipped vehicle may reduce torque steer "some" but not enough for my driving tastes and pleasure.

 

SBT

[doteleven]

Of the VW equipped AWD TME systems (R32 included) that I've driven, all have torque steer for the very reason that was mentioned previously; the TME system coupled to a part-time AWD that "reacts" after slip. It's inherent in the design and there's no way to compensate for it, short of including a "locked" diff up front. AWD on a TME-equipped vehicle may reduce torque steer "some" but not enough for my driving tastes and pleasure.

 

SBT

 

Hi - see the following thread for information about the Haldex HPP, which can react before the slip, and actually transfer torque to the rear before the engine can (scroll down for the graph).

 

http:// http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1767221

 

As for torque steer... some folks claim to be able to feel small amounts on the R32. I never felt any. 500rpms shy of redline launches in the wet - nada... coming into turns too hot, and then nailing the throttle to the floor - nothing. It is possible that when you drove the R32, you experienced a weird sensation putting power into a turn with full throttle - its the ESP at work. Did you have ESP on? If so, I can see how you might mistake ESP reigning you in for torque steer.

 

Anyway, don't take my word for it - here are a few threads for you to plow through. BTW - the part of the Legacy that most impresses me so far is the steering - it is very, very precise.

 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1289730

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1067355

 

I just don't think it is fair to say that you shouldn't buy a car because it doesn't have full time AWD. Haldex is an excellent system, and I think that it is good for high performance AWD cars as well, as evidenced by the Audi TT 3.2 DSG, the VW R32, and the Volvo R series.

 

Albert

[Scotty]

Sure it can. It's as accurate as the weatherman.

 

If you were to get two identical cars, one with a full-time AWD and one with a Haldex system, I'm willing to bet you can't tell the difference.

 

Even in Rally racing, none of the WRC cars run with a symmetrical AWD system. Everyone is using computer controlled active differentials. There are times when the system delivers 100% of the power to the front wheels.

[neelnug]

VW....hahhaahaahahhahhaha

I think you would be better off with a 15 year old jag as far as reliability is concerned.

My experienced with VWs is a joke. I was forced to trade in a totally paid off 4 year old VW because it was costing more to keep running then a new car payment.

 

Volkswagon, Drivers Wanted.......... Mechanics Needed!

[IwannaSportSedan]

A symmetrical design has little to do with what sort of differentials they are using.

 

Symmetrical in this case is that the half-shafts, both front and rear, are equal length between left and right sides.

 

The shaft masses are the same, the drive angles are the same, and the lengths are the same.

 

Symmetrical AWD, which the Legacy and WRX 5MT cars have, as Subaru describes it (ALL of subaru's AWD systems are symmetrical side-to-site, btw.) is that torque is distributed symmetrically front and rear, not biased appreciably either way.

 

Computer controlled differentials do not determine the side-to-side symmetry of the drivetrain design, just the torque distribution.

[doteleven]

Hmmm... it says there that there is a weatherman that comes with the haldex system who gets installed under the hood and can predict wet roads and potential slippage conditions...

 

Anyway... sarcasm aside.. how can it actually detect slippage before it occurs? Also, how does a part-time system enhance performance? If it is only transferring torque under slip conditions, you aren't getting the benifit of a true AWD system.

 

Under weather conditions that you describe, there is no way that the Haldex system can predict slippage. However, on a Haldex equipped car with stability control turned off, if you mash the throttle mid corner (my favorite R32 cornering technique), then the HPP Haldex will actually transfer torque to the rear wheels before slippage occurs. So it can transfer torque to the rears based on throttle input and before the engine even builds up increased torque. I guess no one read the thread links.

 

Albert