Jump to content
LegacyGT.com

05 LGT on it's menstrual cycle again.

wurkenman

Recommended Posts

JmP6889928 Grand Master

JmP6889928

Posted
Posted
Fixed

 

The battery is mostly good for starting, after that, it's all alternator.

 

Absolutely wrong. Completely wrong. The BATTERY is the heart of the car and the reservoir that ALL electrical systems draw off of. The alternator has a single purpose and that is to MAINTAIN the battery level. It is not a charger, nor is a power supply, it simply maintains the battery-in essence keeps it full. If your battery goes bad and you jump your car, you risk destroying the alternator in a very short time as they are only made to actually run nominally at about 75% of output. When you run the car by jumping it and don't have a good battery, the alternator is then forced to 100% output and the cooling system on the diode plate and internal regulator are not equipped to handle the heat for extended periods. Ford 3AG alternators last literally about 10 minutes if they are run without a good battery and pop goes a diode due to heat and now you have a 9.6 volt alternator. GM CS units are the same way. ALL internal regulator alternators generate much more heat at maximum output than the heatsinks can handle.

 

If you don't believe me, start your car and unhook your battery and see how it runs and how your systems in the car work. Then hook up the battery and unhook the alternator and start the car and see how it runs. It will run fine on a solid battery for a couple of hours if you very sparingly use the accessories.

 

The BATTERY is absolutely the most important part of everything that makes the car run. Without a good battery, nothing will work.

 

I taught electrical diagnosis and repair and voltage drop diagnosis to automotive technician classes for several years and the biggest myth, believed by most of the technicians coming to the class, is that the car runs on the alternator and the battery is just for starting. Once they understood how a car's electronics and electrical system really does work, then they began to see that the battery and it's connections are the most vital points in the operation of the vehicle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 74
  • Created
  • Last Reply
ehsnils Grand Master

ehsnils

Posted
Posted

And all the electric paths are good?

 

Check all fuses, or route a wire directly from the battery to the load side of the fuse feeding the BIU and IC? mount a fuse on the wire just in case. if the problem goes away you have found the guilty part.

 

A bad ignition lock can also be the cause.

 

Check the BIU connectors to see that they are OK, since a bad pin there is also a suspect. Especially the harness side.

 

Sent from my HTC One using Forum Fiend v1.0.

453747.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ehsnils Grand Master

ehsnils

Posted
Posted

Some schematics that may be useful below. I have marked in red the path that I suspect the most causing the trouble.

 

FB-17   Combination meter
       TPM control module
       Impact sensor
       Occupant detection control module
       OP connector
FB-18   Body integrated unit

http://www.bedug.com/pics/Subaru/2005/PSUP02.png

 

 

http://www.bedug.com/pics/Subaru/2005/PSUP05.png

 

http://www.bedug.com/pics/Subaru/2005/IC01.png

 

http://www.bedug.com/pics/Subaru/2005/IMB01.png

 

http://www.bedug.com/pics/Subaru/2005/BIU.png

 

 

453747.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites
heiche Experienced

heiche

Posted
Posted

Another idea to toss in, did they give you new keys with your new instrument panel?

 

Have you tried another spare key?

 

And, I wonder if a previous owner may have hidden a key in the steering column? This is done sometimes if an aftermarket remote starter is installed to defeat the immobilizer. However, this key could now (if it exists) be interfering with your newly coded key, assuming you got one. Anyway, long story short, maybe pop apart the steering column covers and look around for a key hidden in there within a few inches of the key tumbler.

BtSsm - Android app/Bluetooth adapter. LV, logging, gauges and more. For 05-14 Legacy (GT, 2.5, 3.0, 3.6), 02-14 WRX, 04-14 STi, 04-14 FXT, 05-09 OBXT
Link to comment
Share on other sites
wurkenman Rising Star

wurkenman

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks for all the replies. Just because it's not working yet don't stop with the suggestions. At this point I will even try letting air out of the tires if you think it will help.

 

Thanks for the circuits to check. I currently have the cluster out and am removing the BIU and ECU to check continuity of wiring circuits. Just in case any of you are wondering it is NOT as much fun as I am making it out to be. This has a very HIGH SUCK factor to it. I put 9K on the engine after the build. Then 3 months at the dealer for the 2ECU's and @ BIU's, ran for two weeks then back to the dealer for the cluster. Ran 2 weeks after that and now just starts and dies and security light comes on until key is removed. I made a video on my phone, but have had trouble getting it to upload to Photobucket.

If you woke up today, you have another chance to do it right.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
wurkenman Rising Star

wurkenman

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Finally got the video to upload. This is a crappy phone one since I work alone on this most of the time.

 

The engine starts ALWAYS. Shuts off at different lengths of run time. Times vary from immediate shut down to as much as 5 seconds. Every 20-30 starts the car will run for an extended period, but will fail to restart again and go back into it's cycle of dying. Once car dies, it will NOT restart until ignition is turned back to the off position. When car dies the security light on the dash come on and stays on solid. The light will not go out until key is removed from the ignition completely. Once again when car is started the light will come back on.

 

http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq54/wurkenman/th_20130914_082052_zps5cc7eb5a.jpg

If you woke up today, you have another chance to do it right.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
lockmedic Proficient

lockmedic

Posted
Posted

I'll check my antenna coil tomorrow. . . in the meantime, do you have more than one key? Does it exhibit the same behavior with all of them if so?

 

The chips in the keys don't really wear out, and I don't think I've ever seen one only work every once in a while. . . on the rare occasion one dies it's pretty much permanent. Usually it's a result of physical damage but I suppose as it's an RFID device it could be damaged by a very high power RF or EM field. . . more than what a sensormatic shoplifting tag deactivator could muster.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
wurkenman Rising Star

wurkenman

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Both keys are new from the dealer and programmed with this ECU, BIU, and multimeter. I have paid for a total of 5 new keys with my dealer repair bill. Does the same thing with both keys. I have been alternating them this whole process.
If you woke up today, you have another chance to do it right.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
heiche Experienced

heiche

Posted
Posted
did you get a chance to look for an old hidden key stashed away in the steering column? (from a po install of a remote starter)
BtSsm - Android app/Bluetooth adapter. LV, logging, gauges and more. For 05-14 Legacy (GT, 2.5, 3.0, 3.6), 02-14 WRX, 04-14 STi, 04-14 FXT, 05-09 OBXT
Link to comment
Share on other sites
wurkenman Rising Star

wurkenman

Posted
  • Author
Posted
did you get a chance to look for an old hidden key stashed away in the steering column? (from a po install of a remote starter)

 

I checked and no key hidden. No hacking visible anywhere on the wires I have found or seen yet. The car had only 45K on it when I got it and now it has 54K with 9K on the fresh engine.

If you woke up today, you have another chance to do it right.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
lockmedic Proficient

lockmedic

Posted
Posted

Were the ECU, BIU, and cluster programmed by the dealer with a SSM3?

 

Everything you're saying sounds exactly like an immobilizer problem. . . but if all three parts and keys are new and programmed properly. . . :iam: unless it is the immo. antenna.

 

Don't know about Subaru specifically but that usually throws a code if the antenna is faulty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ehsnils Grand Master

ehsnils

Posted
Posted
I checked and no key hidden. No hacking visible anywhere on the wires I have found or seen yet. The car had only 45K on it when I got it and now it has 54K with 9K on the fresh engine.

 

Notice that it may be just the ID component of the key that's stuck/glued close to the antenna and it looks just like a small piece of plastics.

 

What you can do is to get a plain metal key cut and see if you get a consistent starting behavior with that. If acting right the car shall present a consistent behavior.

 

Another issue I can think of is if you have a radio transmitter nearby or something else emitting radio signals. This includes wireless phones and a lot of other systems, even intercom systems.

 

However since you had some other random problems I still have the feeling that it's not related to a specific module or the immobilizer.

 

Also look through the entire car to make sure that there isn't a box that doesn't belong to the car - some immobilizer overrides don't need to be close to the antenna.

 

Another issue that can be suspected is if there's something wrong with the CAN bus - a completely different module is producing junk on the CAN bus, so disconnecting all non-essential modules may be a way to narrow it down.

453747.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites
lockmedic Proficient

lockmedic

Posted
Posted
Does anyone know what the resistance should be for the antenna inside the key ring? This is the coil wrapped around the key hole for the transponder chip.

 

Mine reads out as about 7-8 ohms. When I turned it on with the antenna unhooked, the security light was on solid. Didn't try to start as the whole front of my engine is apart right now (replacing timing belt/front seals).

 

RFID engine immobilizer systems are fairly robust and generally not susceptible to RF interference. There are a few documented cases of no-start on cars equipped with proximity keys due to RF interference, but those were traced back to a nearby military base and its high-power, "not subject to FCC because FU, we're teh army!" transmitters being used. Probably safe to say that's not an issue unless you're parked next to an unshielded MRI or the Ghostbusters are dealing with a class 5 free-roaming vapor inside the car.

 

We're ready to believe you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
wurkenman Rising Star

wurkenman

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Hopefully I can get away from my kitchen and family room renovation this weekend and pull the glove box and check the main relays. Soon it might be gutted and I will have to check every wire. It ran for about 30 seconds and shut down. It almost acts like some relay or capacitor is getting charged and then won't allow the car to stay running after that. Then it's right back to the start and die routine.
If you woke up today, you have another chance to do it right.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ehsnils Grand Master

ehsnils

Posted
Posted

As I noted, stop replacing parts until you have checked all wiring and grounding points, even circumventing the power supply/fuses.

 

A small glitch in the power due to a bad connection can cause all kinds of problems, so check every grounding screw you can find. Remove screw, check and clean surfaces, a squirt of WD40 on the thread, replace. Repeat that all over the area under the instrument panel.

 

You will learn to hate working under the instrument panel! :p

453747.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use

  I accept