Max Capacity Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 As you might imagine, he's not interested in a Honda. I want him to have 4WD as he will be traveling back and forth over Vail pass to go to school. I'm trying to talk him into a 4Runner or other SUV without much success. Oh now you tell us the real story... Naturally aspirated outback wagon. X2 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero1 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 N/A Forester or Outback all the way. The spec B is much more of an enthusiast car and NOT a great car from a price or maintenance standpoint for a student. A spec B should be the graduation present, mine was to myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp233 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Yeah, in that instance of being away from home, and in the mountains/snow.... you just can't beat an Outback or Forester. I had a Leggy wagon in college, and it was really useful... for all types of stuff Easy to maintain, N/A motors are cheap on gas and uses regular fuel not premium! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzerklo Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Based on your criteria, I would avoid any turbocharged Subarus for your son. Like people have said, they are pretty solid cars if they are well maintained but they are very unforgiving if they are not. I know the turbo cars do a little better at the high altitude passes, but from a reliability standpoint a naturally aspirated (NA) motor is the way to go if you go with a Subaru. Your choices will be a 2.5L four cylinder or a 3.0L six cylinder. The 6 obviously has more power but is not available in any US cars with a manual transmission (but the 4 cylinder is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzerklo Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Easy to maintain, N/A motors are cheap on gas and uses regular fuel not premium! Just for clarity, the 2.5 uses regular. The 3.0R still recommends premium. If you go for an 2010+ Legacy with the 3.6R that uses regular as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp233 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Hmmm. I guess I wasnt aware the 3.0 recommended 91 octane minimum. Bummer there! Anyone know why, mechanically? It has an even higher CR than the EJ25x N/A motor, and not a lot more wizardry, just AVCS?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I love my naturally aspirated legacy, he should consider one. It has been extremely reliable (133k on the clock right now), decent on gas, fun to drive with a stick shift, fairly easy to maintain. The only complaint I have is that is consumes oil, and has since I first bought it, so he would have to check the oil on a regular basis at first to see if his has the same problem as mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serickson Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 *This is not the vehicle you are looking for* Move along... These cars require a good bit of maintenance usually. I would say that they are reliable when they are maintained well, but they're not hondas--you can't just change the oil every 10k miles and call it a day. So can you give me an idea of the maintenance required? Costs? Consequences of not maintaining? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Your new here, trust us we know what we're talking about. My wagon currently has its tranny out for the 6th time. There is not much on my car that is orginal. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzerklo Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 So can you give me an idea of the maintenance required? Costs? Consequences of not maintaining? The biggest everyday maintenance is oil changes. The turbos really need an oil change every 3500 miles. Period. Like people mentioned, all Subaru motors burn oil so the oil level needs to be checked regularly. The forum heavyweights recommend checking the oil every other fill up and topping off as necessary. I don't do it that religiously, but I do have a good handle on how much oil the car consumes. If the oil light comes on in the car, more likely than not you need a new short block ($2k in parts plus labor). Another cost of ownership with an AWD vehicle is that because there are no less than 3 differentials, you cannot replace just one or two tires if you have a blowout. Well, you can if you can find a shop that will shave a tire, but most people would rather sell you a set of 4 tires because they can. This is not a turbo related car issue, just an AWD car issue. The car you are looking at is at 91k miles. You should see if they have done the 90k service and the timing belt (I think that is due at 105k, but many do it at 90k). That is a $1-$1500 service if you do it at a shop. Also at that mileage, you will probably need to replace some shocks soon. The 'B' in Spec B is for Bilstein. It has upgraded Bilstein shocks which may be able to be rebuilt, but if not they are a little spendy. Also, you will start losing random wheel bearings soon. But the biggest worry with the 2.5 turbo motor has to do with engine or turbo failure. There was a rash of bad oil pick up tubes early in production and if the braze fails the engine is starved of oil and you need a new shortblock. Since this is a known problem, it may be covered by Subaru. Maybe. One of the most common failures has to do with the banjo bolt screens on the turbo oil feed line. If the oil is not changed regularly, the screens in the oil feed line will clog, starving your turbo of oil. The turbo grenades and sends bits of metal into your oil system that then takes out your shortblock too. The heads usually survive, but you are talking $4-$6k for a new turbo and shortblock. Many people remove the banjo bolt screen or replace the oil feed line with a different design. In fact there is a Subaru TSB out that instructs you to remove the filter. The 2006 has a catalytic converter right behind the turbo in the up pipe (UP). If that clogs and overheats, it has been known to explode and take out the turbo - see above. Subaru removed this cat in either 07 or 08, but it is an easy fix as any STi stock UP will fit. Then there is the ringland problem. There is more discussion on here about ringlands than you can shake a stick at. This is the big reason you need to get a compression test done. The pistons will fail at the ringlands and you get blow-by. Some of it has to do with the OEM pistons and some of it has to do with a questionable factory tune that allows too much knock. There is a less common problem with people burning intake valves because of knock. This can mostly be prevented by a proper tune ($150 + a $30 cable). The last issue is previous owners. If you go for this car you need to do your due diligence. Compression test. Service history. Have a reputable and knowledgeable mechanic look at it. A lot of people buy and modify Subarus that don't know what they are doing and then sell it or trade it in. Like other people have pointed out, this particular car may have been modified based on changes to the exterior. One of the big telltale signs are if the turbo heat shield is missing or not OEM or if it has an aftermarket intake. You basically need a tune for any mods except for an axleback exhaust (so intake, down pipe ect all require a tune), and if it is not tuned you are buying a time bomb. I promise I am not trying to scare you. We all got these cars for probably the same reason your son wants one. They are really fun to drive for a reasonable amount of money. But you need to be aware of what you are getting into with buying a used turbo subie. They are pretty solid cars, but they need to be taken care of. Even if you take care of it you could be in for a $2-$6k repair bill... which is what a rainy day fund is for. Research, research, research and spend the money on an inspection if you really want to get this car. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolveren Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Pretty much what Berzerklo said, I am very much in agreement with. I bought my 06 LGT from a dealership 7 months ago and I had to have the motor and turbo rebuilt/replaced, suspension parts replaced, and all fluids done because of the previous owner's neglectful maintenance. These cars can be a pain in the butt at times, but at least if you decide to fix it up, it'll be a great car to own for some years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dujo Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Superb exposition on the dangers of owning a turbo Subaru. They are awesome to drive and own, but they are not worry free. By the way, OP ... as far as one of your original questions ... price it just like a regular LGT sedan from 2006. Technically, it is a special edition with a few upgraded parts, but it's about 98% identical to a regular ole Legacy GT and most blue books and trade in offers will be priced as such. It might be slightly above the average selling price of a comparable LGT because it is a particularly desirable one, but it's still really just a 2006 LGT with a sexy red interior and slightly better struts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finse Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Superb exposition on the dangers of owning a turbo Subaru. They are awesome to drive and own, but they are not worry free. By the way, OP ... as far as one of your original questions ... price it just like a regular LGT sedan from 2006. Technically, it is a special edition with a few upgraded parts, but it's about 98% identical to a regular ole Legacy GT and most blue books and trade in offers will be priced as such. It might be slightly above the average selling price of a comparable LGT because it is a particularly desirable one, but it's still really just a 2006 LGT with a sexy red interior and slightly better struts. aluminum control arms, nav.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dujo Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 97% I admit I didn't count the unicorn urine used as a lubricant in all moving parts, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serickson Posted July 14, 2013 Author Share Posted July 14, 2013 The biggest everyday maintenance is oil changes. The turbos really need an oil change every 3500 miles. Period. Like people mentioned, all Subaru motors burn oil so the oil level needs to be checked regularly. The forum heavyweights recommend checking the oil every other fill up and topping off as necessary. I don't do it that religiously, but I do have a good handle on how much oil the car consumes. If the oil light comes on in the car, more likely than not you need a new short block ($2k in parts plus labor). Another cost of ownership with an AWD vehicle is that because there are no less than 3 differentials, you cannot replace just one or two tires if you have a blowout. Well, you can if you can find a shop that will shave a tire, but most people would rather sell you a set of 4 tires because they can. This is not a turbo related car issue, just an AWD car issue. The car you are looking at is at 91k miles. You should see if they have done the 90k service and the timing belt (I think that is due at 105k, but many do it at 90k). That is a $1-$1500 service if you do it at a shop. Also at that mileage, you will probably need to replace some shocks soon. The 'B' in Spec B is for Bilstein. It has upgraded Bilstein shocks which may be able to be rebuilt, but if not they are a little spendy. Also, you will start losing random wheel bearings soon. But the biggest worry with the 2.5 turbo motor has to do with engine or turbo failure. There was a rash of bad oil pick up tubes early in production and if the braze fails the engine is starved of oil and you need a new shortblock. Since this is a known problem, it may be covered by Subaru. Maybe. One of the most common failures has to do with the banjo bolt screens on the turbo oil feed line. If the oil is not changed regularly, the screens in the oil feed line will clog, starving your turbo of oil. The turbo grenades and sends bits of metal into your oil system that then takes out your shortblock too. The heads usually survive, but you are talking $4-$6k for a new turbo and shortblock. Many people remove the banjo bolt screen or replace the oil feed line with a different design. In fact there is a Subaru TSB out that instructs you to remove the filter. The 2006 has a catalytic converter right behind the turbo in the up pipe (UP). If that clogs and overheats, it has been known to explode and take out the turbo - see above. Subaru removed this cat in either 07 or 08, but it is an easy fix as any STi stock UP will fit. Then there is the ringland problem. There is more discussion on here about ringlands than you can shake a stick at. This is the big reason you need to get a compression test done. The pistons will fail at the ringlands and you get blow-by. Some of it has to do with the OEM pistons and some of it has to do with a questionable factory tune that allows too much knock. There is a less common problem with people burning intake valves because of knock. This can mostly be prevented by a proper tune ($150 + a $30 cable). The last issue is previous owners. If you go for this car you need to do your due diligence. Compression test. Service history. Have a reputable and knowledgeable mechanic look at it. A lot of people buy and modify Subarus that don't know what they are doing and then sell it or trade it in. Like other people have pointed out, this particular car may have been modified based on changes to the exterior. One of the big telltale signs are if the turbo heat shield is missing or not OEM or if it has an aftermarket intake. You basically need a tune for any mods except for an axleback exhaust (so intake, down pipe ect all require a tune), and if it is not tuned you are buying a time bomb. I promise I am not trying to scare you. We all got these cars for probably the same reason your son wants one. They are really fun to drive for a reasonable amount of money. But you need to be aware of what you are getting into with buying a used turbo subie. They are pretty solid cars, but they need to be taken care of. Even if you take care of it you could be in for a $2-$6k repair bill... which is what a rainy day fund is for. Research, research, research and spend the money on an inspection if you really want to get this car. Good luck. Thanks for that reply. This is helpful information. I know that took a lot of time and I appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorman629 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Thought I'd share my views on this one... I just graduated college in May, but when I enrolled right out of high school, I was 18 with a 130 mile a day commute to school. Certain circumstances prohibited me from living at school so commuting was the only way I could do it, so I managed to get my schedule compressed to 3 days per week. I needed a car that could reliably get me to school whenever I needed all the time and hopefully last me through the 4 years. I purchased a 2006 Legacy 2.5i LTD, so I had all the bells and whistles I wanted but it was N/A so it was reliable. Other than oil changes, tires, and wheel bearings, I didn't have to do any major maintenance to it over the 4 years. I've modified its suspension and visually but overall I couldn't have been happier with my decision to stick with N/A for my daily driver. It's now time to do my timing belt and other maintenance as I'm just approaching 100K. For the past year and a half, I've also had a 05 GT which I've done more work to than I have ever thought of having to do to my 2.5i. I'm not complaining about the GT, I bought it for a toy and to have fun with, but in my opinion the 2.5i is the best route for a college student who needs reliability. My brother just started college this past year and I got him a 2009 2.5i limited to also use to commute 5 days per week 50+ miles each way. The 30 mpgs on the highway help the cause too along with using regular fuel. I know and have seen GT's get good gas mileage, but in general the N/A will get better. Just my rambling 2 cents but felt I should chime in about the reliability of the N/A and support what some other members were saying. Regardless, I wish your son luck and hope he enjoys whatever vehicle he ends up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjo Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/10/u8aqezu2.jpg Just be prepared for this.... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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