surmiser

Gecko has coilovers for older-gen Legacys and other Subaru models, and probably reused old specs for my rear coilovers since our rears are identical to the previous gen. But I'm pretty sure that coilovers for previous gens won't fit. The fronts are the problem. They (Gecko) are open to customising coilovers to spec for pretty much any car because it's a win for them. They get to support a new model with minimal effort, and then claim to have a huge catalog. For my part, I had to let my dealer remove my stock suspension and spend hours measuring it. It was a bit of a pain and took up a lot of time. If there were more coils for our car available on the market, I wouldn't have bothered, but I was desperate enough to put up with it. It helped that my dealer gave me a US$140 discount for being a guinea pig. In case more pics would be helpful, here are some and I've got plenty more: And what the hell, here are some more of the rear, in case anyone's interested:

I hear ya. So am I, in reality, but I'm a bit delusional. Not sure what you mean. My stock wheels were the 18-inch "Limited" cast aluminum alloys. Yup, about 26lbs (24.9lbs on my scale, fwiw). I almost got one of the Niche 19" models. I love how Niche allows you to customise stuff like offset.

How similar were the weights you found? Eg, for my Prodrive GC-010E, the 18-inch is 8.2kg whereas the 17-inch is about 7.6kg (iirc). But even if you compare 18-inch and 20-inch wheels of the exact same weight and similar design, the 20-inch would have more rotational inertia because more of its mass would be located further away from the centre of the wheel, and would therefore require more energy to move, stop and turn. Then again, we're not racers looking to shave off the last gram, and I'm not going to pretend that looks don't matter. Of course 20s will look better. Can't wait to see the results. Don't forget to share pics, as well as your findings on clearance and ride quality.

Sorry guys, I have no idea, but I'm going to ask my local dealer when I go in for adjustments after my coilovers have settled in. I'm hesitant to experiment myself cuz each adjustment takes a while to break in, and sometimes results in sag and imbalance. I don't have snow here, but we've been getting increasingly bad flooding in Asia, so I'm going to have to be careful during the rainy monsoon season.

Took the liberty of replying here to the post you made in the H&R Springs thread. Thanks! Yeah, although they do have a (hopeless) official global website, I'd contact them directly through their USA Facebook page, which lists their US office as being located in Waterford, New York. If they tell you they don't support the 6th-gen Legacy BN9, show them this scan of the front page of my Gecko manual, which clearly shows product number 13581075: http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170109/a4d945dabb8a00f5ed49f19f6b2a8a38.jpg I don't know for a fact that they created a new SKU just for our cars, but that would make sense, so the product number should show Gecko USA a different coilover model in their system compared to the 5th-gen Legacy BM9/BMM. They were shipped to me from their Taiwan factory last week (first week of 2017), and the specifications for our cars were submitted to them about three months ago, after my stock suspension was measured.

I've lowered my 2.5 with Gecko G-Street coilovers. 18-inch wheels with stock 225/50R18 tires. 1.5-inch drop all around: http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170108/4d9145db6280a89fbbc1514f259bb4fe.jpg http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170108/dab9d3ca10017d71162579ed3f69a103.jpg http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170108/f0195aa7ba99d03e1b4755dfa8bd5ffd.jpg http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170108/a14d462305f2dfb8e75613bc44114a8d.jpg http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170108/be2ef3f1c15f1b1ebd230a0eaa47e39d.jpg http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170108/835b72f89c090f1118bde218f51d7f6b.jpg Front coilover: http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170108/3a2c9c20fbe140ace1df4f1f2543f99c.jpg Front damping adjustment knob: http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170108/e7a594d778fa3971941b0bfaeb31d8af.jpg Rear coilover: http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170108/afedc5ef0b04d0c529575d126a142bbb.jpg Rear damping adjustment knob: http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170108/35d68e6d59250578bd385b6631fac26e.jpg Gecko is a Taiwanese coilover brand that's available in the US: https://www.facebook.com/GeckoUSA You probably haven't heard of them because their background is OEM work and they don't seem to have had much luck establishing themselves as an independent brand. Their dubious branding probably doesn't help. But I decided to gamble on them because they are cheap (I believe they start at about US$700 Stateside but are perversely a bit more expensive in Southeast Asia) and boast impressive specs, which include Japanese KOYO bearing and NOK seals (I believe Tein uses these too). I bought the G-Street model, which is fully adjustable for height but not camber, and has 24 levels of damping adjustment. There's a G-Street Plus model that adds camber, and a G-Race model with stiffer springs and 30 levels of damping. My coilovers are actually a custom job because Gecko didn't have a model for our Legacy BN9. My local dealer gave me a small discount for being a guinea pig, which made them noticeably cheaper than official BN9 coilovers from D2 and RS*R. And now Gecko officially supports the BN9. Ask for product number 13581075. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170108/a888e728dbda4a1690ac399d00485ba1.jpg http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170108/6aa942163791e087164bf7581320dc7d.jpg Front springs are 180mm with 8kg spring rates. Rear springs are 200mm with 6kg spring rates. In terms of comfort, I was worried these would be on the stiff side but although the ride is noticeably bumpier than stock, it's completely bearable. I have front dampers at a third stiffness (8/24) and rear at a quarter (6/24), with no bottoming out and no rubbing when cornering. I suspect that softer springs would have given me clearance problems at this ride height. I also suspect that my 22mm Whiteline sway bar allowed me to get away with softer rear damper settings. So, before you get coils, I highly recommend a stiffer sway bar first. In terms of performance, there's no longer any perceivable diving during hard braking. And cornering composure is greatly improved, as is roadholding in general. In terms of looks, I'm completely satisfied. P.S. I originally posted this in the "H&R Springs" thread but mod GTEASER suggested I start my own thread, so here it is.

Weight, tire cost, and clearance issues if you want to lower your car a fair bit.

I don't have up-to-date logs worth sharing, but I do have a dyno run. Blue is the TH tune. Red is stock, done a few months ago. Weather was hotter for the newer run, but I used the same fuel for both. Takeda intake, stock exhaust: http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170108/624e20ff5e4adf113601fbe7720ac8d2.jpg Unspectacular dyno results. Peak HP gain of only 5 or so, but the gains are quite consistent throughout the rev range. Dyno does show a slight dip below 3,760 rpm even though my butt doesn't feel it. Then again, the dyno numbers don't reflect the sheer drivability of the tune, with linear power delivery and sharper CVT behaviour. No bragging rights but the tune works where I need it - on the road. Actually, Matt custom-tuned my car in person, physically sitting next to me while I drove on the road, laptop plugged in. Log, stop, engine off, flash a new tune, engine on, move, log, rinse and repeat. Real-time logging reinforced by the actual feel of the car accelerating, and the sound of my engine. He didn't just tweak performance parameters. He adjusted brake pressure, cooling system kick-in point, etc. It's true that Matt doesn't travel to the US, and therefore relies purely on remote tunes for US cars, which begin with a template base tune that is then tweaked as necessary. However, Matt does fly to Asia (I'm a lot nearer to him), so folks here can either wait for him to come and then head straight for a road tune, or do what I did, which is start with a remote tune (Tactrix), and then refine it on the road when he's in town. The in-person road tune was a key reason I chose Matt over Ed, even though I was extremely impressed with Ed's communication and attitude. For spirited driving, I prefer a gearbox that drops gears (downshifts) when I brake hard into a turn, so that I'm already in the power band whenever I get back on the throttle. BMW autos did this in sports mode as far back as the early 90s and I loved it. In normal driving, of course, it's more efficient to upshift (I assume this is what you meant by "drop gears/revs") into the turn, and only downshift upon throttle input. As for flipping to manual, I find shifts crisper in auto mode and therefore prefer to use the paddles in auto mode. Even better that S# lets me dispense with paddles most of the time.

What we could really use is a fundamentally different way to launch our cars, such as the launch control feature that's built into EcuTek. In the absence of that, all we can do is max out throttle inputs, then wait for the revs to rise asap. That's what S# gives me. It's still a conventional approach. And still not ideal, but worlds better than what I had. WOT from stop in S (stock tune) used to slowly roll me forwards while gradually building the revs. There was no way to speed up the process, and getting past 4k rpm was painful, though it was better after that point. WOT from stop in S# (TH tune) now jerks me forward immediately. Then bogs down a bit as the transmission hooks up. And then picks up again with increasing urgency. Getting past 4k rpm is now a relatively brisk affair. Throttle response is so abrupt that I can't drive constantly in S#, which is why I find SI Mode so useful. It allows me to have an uncivilised mode just for fast launches and quick getaways, and two modes for regular driving. I couldn't imagine having to pick just one throttle map to use 24/7 because there really is no single best one that works for every situation. One thing that's really helped with WOT launches is the Raceseng lightweight crank and water pump pulleys I installed a week ago. Revs rise faster so the car gets to the sweet spot sooner. I'll post separately about that mod. What's WOT from stop like for you? Sorry I don't have any 0-60 times to compare yet. Haven't hit the dyno yet either. It's really great that we're finally sharing experiences from different tuners here. It's a win for everyone. Sorry, that's what I meant but you explained it far better. When the ignition is off, my car does revert to whatever mode it was in before S# was selected.

Actually, Matt/TH discovered that my 2.5 not only had S# Mode in my stock tune, but that my S Mode button was already toggling between S and S#, just like on the 3.6 (makes sense since that allows Subaru to more easily reuse ECU code). But both maps were identical in my stock tune so toggling them was pointless. So Matt remapped my S# Mode. This means my 2.5 now has 3 SI Drive modes: I, S and S#. There's no icon to tell me when I'm in S#, and my car defaults to S whenever I kill the ignition (just like in all Subaru models with S#). I Mode was useless in my stock tune. So Matt made it like my original S Mode, but with all the benefits of I Mode such as lower cruising rpms. He then made my S Mode like an S# Mode, and my S# is strictly for crazy moments because it's not just touchy, it holds gears and revs when braking into turns, etc. So I actually find myself in I Mode most of the time now. Never thought I'd see the day. My car was the first time Matt discovered the S# code in a tune that wasn't supposed to have it, so I think that's what got him started on seeing if he could activate the mode in other cars. But I think you'd really need some sort of hardware to toggle the modes. And before all you USDM 2.5 folks go bugging Matt for S#, bear in mind that my car's made in Japan, doesn't have Eyesight, and has an ECU that Matt hadn't seen since he last tuned a Euro-spec Subaru. So it might be an unusual case. I hope not, for everyone's sakes, but best to moderate your expectations. That's what I used to think too. And with stock tunes, maybe. But having three very usable but completely different modes has been unexpectedly useful. It's much easier to chauffeur passengers around smoothly in I Mode. While S# solves many of my complaints about launching the CVT from traffic lights.

The basic distinction to make is between offset (in this case, +50mm, which only tells you how far out your wheels will be from your wheel hubs), and tire profile (in this case, 40, which tells you how much rubber there is in addition to the diameter of your wheels). Offset won't affect your speedo accuracy, but tire profile can. I'd say 20mm spacers all round should get you near the sweet spot. The rears are where any clearance problems might crop up, but it's hard to say for sure because it also depends on your driving style and whether or not you've upgraded your rear sway bar. The flusher you are in the rear, the more likely you'll rub. One possibility is a staggered offset setup where you run 20mm spacers in front, and 15mm in the rear. You'll definitely have enough clearance all round then.

A 5.5s 0-60 with an NA 3.6, with nothing but premium gas and a drop-in filter, is fierce. How did you time yourself, and were you in auto or manual mode? Have you dynoed your tune?

Yes. Yes.

I think Ed is saying that because our Legacy BN9 is powered by an "old" FB25 engine, it isn't a special tuning case. The only new variable is the 2nd-gen CVT. So he's saying that 6th-gen tuning is essentially about optimising the CVT through indirect transmission tuning. But even though the FB25 isn't new, Ed still needs extensive data logs in order to maximise its potential (eg, ignition timing vs just throttle maps), which is where user commitment comes in. Ed, please chime in if I'm misrepresenting you.

Dyno sounds like a decent deal, so I'd say got for it. If your goal is comparison between two tunes though, just FYI that you can do virtual dynos for free via RomRaider, and if you do end up working with XRT, you'll be using RomRaider anyway. That being said, a physical dyno run's still useful, and if you compare that to your virtual dyno runs on RomRaider, you'll then be able to accurately compensate for virtual dyno runs in future with just RomRaider.

I ordered them more than two months ago but am still waiting - extremely impatiently. Sigh.

You might be just within safe territory with 20mm spacers at stock height. Tough call. Just be prepared to have to insert spring stiffener collars in the rear. I suspect that a stiffer rear sway bar might also save you from rear rubbing, because I only got rubbing with the 25mm spacers during aggressive cornering, and my rear sway bar was stock back then. I can't help but wonder if I'd have had better luck with the 22mm rear sway bar I'm now running. Anyway, if your rear sway bar's stock and you plan to upgrade, I suggest doing that first before decreasing wheel inset. FYI, with my current wheels, I'm at the equivalent of 18.6mm spacers, which is definitely safe at stock height, and probably safe when lowered.

I had the spacers custom made at a factory here. No brand. Here are the 25mm hubcentric spacers themselves: http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161210/ac5582c6231e6618671f7300e3e434c5.jpg Here's one of them mounted: http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161210/12a41ddf0b8a5bfac808a0906e714824.jpg Here are some pics back when I still had the spacers on all four wheels: http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161210/a4647f6b512647fa9a2831d8e9189116.jpg http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161210/f492900026545e9e3ebb069c83a9c2b9.jpg http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161210/313d050ca304d2439c9324868015b528.jpg And here's a pic when I only had the spacers on my front wheels; I removed them from the rears because of rubbing. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161210/aeb0422c7bac15b56a51673e24fd18ab.jpg

When I was on 25mm spacers, the ride wasn't noticeably different in terms of comfort of stiffness, but due to the wider track, the car felt more stable and better-planted on the road. Better composure on turns. I kinda miss it and will try and replicate that handling when I finally get my coilovers, which brings me to... Lowering - I haven't lowered my car yet because my custom Gecko coilovers have been delayed. Supposed to have arrived by last month but I'm probably looking at January. So my car is still at stock height. I aim to lower the rear by 10mm and the front by 20mm. We'll see how that goes and I'll post about it for sure.

Or perhaps our CVTs just need the tuning more. Could be as much relief as love. How are the engine operations different?

Mine's not plastidip. Paid a shop to paint them for me, which involved sanding them down (and fixing lots of rash; these were 10-year-old wheels I bought relatively cheap), priming, then layers of gloss paint and clear lacquer, then baking to cure all of it.

Yes, I was given a guarantee (can't remember if it was 6 months or a year) against overall failure, peeling, discoloration, etc, but not against chipping.

Thanks! You're thinking of going either flat or gloss black, right? Looks aside, one of the reasons I went gloss is the clear lacquer finishing coat the shop put on, which seems to keep the wheels slightly cleaner than matte finishes.

I did a bit more searching and it turns out that there are already good RomRaider how-tos on Legacygt.com. EcuFlash and RomRaider how-to: legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/complete-beginners-guide-e-tuning-vendor-and-vag-com-cable-158118.html Windows 7-specific how-to: legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3792458&postcount=137

Yes, RR setup can be a pain. As you mentioned, the documentation's scattered, and it's not exactly clear either, which is typical of many open source projects. Java's definitely the biggest headache (it requires a 32-bit version of Java, regardless of whether or not you already have a 64-bit version installed). I had better luck than you in getting several versions of Java to co-exist on a Windows 7 laptop. I definitely agree that RR's useful for monitoring your own car. Someone asked (can't remember if it was this thread or elsewhere in the 6th-gen forum) if there were other uses for Tactrix other than downloading stock tunes and uploading new ones. RR should be top on the list (it does virtual dynos too), and easily helps justify the cost of investing in a Tactrix Openport. Worried about unusually high oil temperatures? The answer might be in your logs. Yes, Tactrix allows automated standalone logging to a microSD card without a laptop, based on triggers such as rpm. But unless you're adept at editing the config files required for microSD card logging, it's much easier to use RR to choose which parameters you want logged, and in what units. I'll get around to the how-to. Yes I have. I've had no problems with both monitoring realtime info (ie, without pressing the record button), and actually logging data (ie, pressing the record button and having RR write in realtime to a CSV log file). Then again, I have a different ECU compared to the USDM and Aussie models so I can't guarantee you'll have the same success. No harm trying though if you already have Tactrix, since RR is free software.