capttris

dgoodhue, I was thinking the same thing. I'm thinking all hoses simply because of the low cost and no labor. The hoses on my 91 prelude lasted about 14 years before I got my 1st leak, but it was a heater hose and tiny and hard to get to, so if I can buy an extra 4 years and 70,000 miles out of new hoses for just a few dollars, it's probably worth it. water pump, belt and spark plugs are good advice. thanks

The new short block has arrived at my dealership and the work is approved by Subaru. After dealing with 2 "service writers" who are clueless, and are basically "schedulers", I ended up speaking with the owner of the dealership, who made me feel much more at ease. I will be bringing in the car in a couple weeks. As for replacing additional components while the engine is apart, nobody has really been able to tell me, other than new coolant and hoses. My goal is to speak with the tech PRIOR to starting the work (when I drop off the car) and I plan to stop down during the process to see the condition of the old engine and components, and discuss with the tech. Dealers love to schedule this work, but I haven't found anyone knowledgeable enough to speak about the work being performed. Even the OWNER of the dealership didn't know much.... This leaves ONLY the tech for me to speak with....

UPDATE: After waiting over 3 weeks for my dealer's service writer to respond to me (I'm very disappointed already) he said that he will submit my oil consumption test results from LAST SUMMER to Subaru, based on the new lawsuit. He thinks he will hear back tomorrow or so. He never emailed me so I had to verbally ask him these questions (what are some people so afraid of email and putting things in writing? I do it all day long with technical things and high-dollar projects - it's no big deal) my questions to the dealer: Some questions: 1. Has this information hit Subaru dealers yet? Dealer's Service Writer: yes, he heard about this. 2. What is the latest TSB for this work? I recall it used to be a tear down and replacement of ONLY the piston rings, but I believe now it is a short block replacement. Please confirm. Dealer's Service Writer: short block replacement and reusing the rest from the original engine. 3. Have you performed this TSB for short block replacement on the 2.5 FB engine in my model car yet? Roughly many have you performed? Dealer's Service Writer: (he dodged this question a few times, then said about 2 or 3 they have done). I was hoping for more. 4. I understand that another oil consumption test is required before you can request further approval from Subaru. That's fine, I can come in for this. Dealer's Service Writer: He is submitting my results from last summer as they exceeded the limit. 5. What has been your experience with the approximate lead time on ordering a short block under the TSB? Dealer's Service Writer: only 2-3 days he said. I'm shocked. 6. I asked him what items he would recommend replacing (that wouldn't be included in the warranty but would be a good idea at 70,000 miles) radiator hoses coolant (I will make sure this is new anyway) spark plugs He said they would have to remove the heads and take a look a the condition of everything BEFORE deciding/recommending anything else. ** What else should I have them do?*** What do you think the valves will look like, along with anything else that may have been affected by the oil burning? thanks

Asegal17 , Great advice, thanks. I actually do oil sampling at every oil change, so I have lots of data. My engine is healthy and normal, other than oil getting past the rings. A leak-down test isn't a bad idea and the only cost would be a little labor, but I may be able to negotiate that in for free, since my current engine would need most components stripped off anyway, to be assembled onto the new short block. Good thinking. Thoughts on waiting until 90-95,000 miles, or doing this short block replacement ASAP at 70,000 (as soon as the dealer is able to) I think waiting is smarter, other than the possible additional damage the burning oil could do to my exhaust system. thoughts?

How many miles on your engine? Are there any additional components you plan to proactively replace while the engine is pulled, to save on the labor of future replacements/failures? Do you think I should do the replacement on mine now, at 68K miles, or wait until 90K miles?

Rapture The 1st page of the lawsuit letter gives the covered models and years by VIN#. What's interesting is how "ALL" models of Legacy and Outback with MANUAL transmission are covered. Subaru must have done a 1-time batch of engines configured for a manual (bell housing, etc) at the beginning of the production run? I'm hoping to get some good feedback on this forum, before contacting my dealer.

I posted this last week under an oil consumption thread, and, as there are so many, it got buried. So forgive me if I am breaking any rules by re-posting this as a new thread: I just received a letter in the mail from Subaru (see attachments) There was no cover letter, and they stuffed basically 3 separate folded documents into the envelope. I had to read each a couple of times to figure out what the deal is. (and I am already familiar with the oil consumption lawsuit and details) Included: 1. Lawsuit Q&A 2. Reimbursement claim form 3. Lawsuit Letter For me, I can claim reimbursement for 1 qt every 10,000 miles, up to 60,000 miles. So 6 qts of oil.... whoop-de-do... Maybe I get $50? This must have been some negotiated amount (and this part of the lawsuit isn't settled yet - pending July 2016 hearing) I burn about .6 qt every 1000 miles so we're talking honestly about 30+ qts of oil that I have burned in my 68,000 miles right now... The more important part: See pg 4 of 8 on the lawsuit letter. Effective the date of this letter, the warranty is being extended to 8 years or 100,000 miles and my VIN# falls within this. If the oil consumption test shows that your vehicle consumes more than 1/3 qt of oil in 1200 miles, the retailer will perform the applicable TSB Repair at no charge. -Well, I have been burning well over a 1/2 qt. every 1000 miles, so I certainly quality. The last I saw, the TSB for this is a short block replacement (it used to be pulling the engine and replacing ONLY the rings) Can anyone confirm what the latest TSB is for this? As I have 68,000 miles now, I think my plan would be to wait to about 90,000-95,000 and bring it for the short block replacement. Any risk in waiting? My only concern is if the oil burning would/will affect other exhaust components in the next 30,000 miles, if I wait to 90K. If I do the short block replacement, this would be a great time to do some long-term maintenance items/replacements. What would be a list (in order of importance) of the things I would want to PAY FOR, to have the dealer replace, when they are building up the new short block to install? (this is based on saving on the labor to repair/replace after the engine is in the car, and a part fails (IE: starter, alternator, water pump, injectors, etc) Thanks in advance! In return, I will take photos and keep everyone here updated with this process. Lawsuit Q&A small.pdf Reimbursment claim form small.pdf Subaru Lawusit Letter 4-25-16 small.pdf

I have a 2013 2.5. Can someone attached or direct me to the link for this TSB # 02-157-14R: ? My car falls into the class action lawsuit, even by VIN#. But if the TSB states 1/3 Q per 1200miles or greater, than I qualify. The lawsuit states that Subaru will be extending the oil consumption warranty to 8 years or 100,000 miles, which would be great for me, as I have 67K right now on my 2013. This would give me more time to figure out a game plan for my engine. I honestly don't want it ripped apart and put back together. Especially by a tech that is rushing to beat the clock.... I have overhauled dozens of diesels in my previous career. 600-800HP. I don't want a Tech rushing on my car. But on the other hand, I don't want to see the negative side affects of heavy oil burning catching up with me, like any sensors going bad, catalyst, etc.... Not to mention any soot on the bumper....

my response: what oil are you using? Mobil1 0W20 for the last 50,000. Switched to Pennzoil on the last oil change, but the consumption is identical. Have you gone to the dealer and used the Idemitsu? The first 15,000 or 3 oil changes I did at the dealer, but based on the oil analysis I do after every oil change, it looked like the dealer was using a higher-weight (thicker) oil. The oil analysis proved it. The service manager there ignored me and asked me to leave. (long story if anyone wants to hear it) I went to another dealer for the oil consumption test. The Subaru oil consumption test is simply the dealer does an oil change and verifies the oil level is even with the full mark on the stick. They have you come back in 1200 miles (or as close as possible to 1200) and the check the level on the stick. That's it. No magic. I didn't need a dealer to tell me what I burn. I check my oil on level ground in a garage, with a cold engine sitting overnight every time. For the last 50,000 miles (I have 66K now) I burn about 6/10ths of a qt every 1000-1200 miles. Or about 1/2Qt every 1200 miles, roughly speaking. The Subaru "SPEC" is if you exceed 1 qt in 1200 miles, the dealer informs Subaru and their Subaru dealer service rep discusses a replacement/overhaul to replace only the oil control rings. Again, no magic with the consumption test. If I wanted to suck out and/or drain any oil right before bringing the car back to the dealer at 1200 miles, I totally could have. The truth is, I don't want a dealer to rip apart my car right now. Let's see what the consumption looks like at 90,000 miles... Or have you used better oil? What would you consider better? For those who aren't having oil consumption issues, what oil are you using?

JLGT, It is people like you who makes these forums awesome! Super photos, thank you very much! And thank you for showing the quick link piece from Home Depot. This type of thing saves all of us hours of research, either on the computer or standing in Home Depot/Lowes, scratching our heads and wondering.... thanks!!

Take a look at the colors of the CVT oil samples I did 2 months ago: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/cvt-used-clean-oil-analysis-report-243733.html?t=243733&highlight=cvt The fresh CVT oil is green, and I would say it has a chemical smell, sort of like propane. The dirty CVT oil is original with 52,000 miles on it. However, the oil analysis came back and the dirty oil was not terrible at all. The data on it shows it was still ok. For good measure, I just changed it anyway, at my dealer, and after a good sit down with the service manager, so we were all on the same page. So CVT oil is NOT GOLDEN. Please let us know what you find

Looks great! I think bigger tires/wheels make it look even better. Maybe you could "try out" a set if you are know any outback owner that would let you try on their wheels/tires? The ground clearance is awesome! You will do well in the snow too!

The lift looks great!

very excited to see how this comes out. I always like the older 3rd gen legacys with the high suspension!

fishbone, I used a local Caterpillar dealer, so it is a CAT certified Oil lab. This was whited-out when I whited out my personal info etc. I was not trying to hide the name of the lab. I have done several engine oil samples with the same lab and the results also look a little different with the engine oil. I think they use this style report for transmission oil only. Based on the dirty color to the used oil, and the iron particles (under microscope) I think I may change it for piece of mind. I would like to hear more from others before I do so, though thanks for the input. It was my pleasure to share this info with everyone and I look forward to feedback from the others in this forum!

All, Please see attached CVT Oil Samples. One is clean oil, the other is the used oil with 54,000 miles (first time inspecting it) I can call the lab to discuss with them, but I wanted to post here first. Is there anyone here that fully understands the details of this report, and could give some feedback? Other than higher ppm of Fe, Si and visible iron debris under microscope, the V100 viscosity isn't far from the clean oil sample. I am not sure what the "CVT oil spec" is for V100, as I wasn't able to find a spec sheet on the oil online. While I don't think the used oil is terrible or concerning, I think I may still change it now at 54,000 miles. Especially for about $200-250 at the dealer. Does anyone see any downside to me changing the oil now? thoughts/comments/opinions? I would really love to get input on the technical details of the 2 samples please. thanks Tristan 1 upload clean CVT 2107868_SUBARU_CVTOIL#SUBARU_CVTOIL_B370-45211-0001_NAR.pdf 1 upload used CVT 2107868_2013_SUBARU_LEGACY#2013_SUBARU_LEGACY_B370-45211-0051_MC.pdf

I just pulled a oil sample of the CVT oil, purchased 1 qt of CVTF-II oil for $14.50 from the dealer, and replenished with the oil that was taken out for the sample. I also took a fresh oil sample from the qt bottle, so I will be sending in both samples. 54,000 miles As you can see from the photos, the used oil looks quite dirty. Like used engine oil. It smells much different too. Not burned, but again, like used engine oil. More than likely I will change the CVT oil based either way, but I am curious what the results show. I will post the reports when I get them. Cost from dealer to change the oil: 7 qts of oil @$14.50/qt and 1 hour labor @$100 so a little over $200. I think it will be worth it.

I think I am starting to get the very early stages of this torque converter issue at 54,000 miles. I am looking to bring my car into the dealer next week for the first oil consumption test, just to document it with Subaru. I am about 1 qt every 2200 miles, but it has increased unfortunately and I am close to ending the factory warranty. I am also looking to get a CVT oil change/flush. I will send the oil for analysis. 1 sample of clean oil and 1 sample of used oil, for the best comparison. QUESTION: The dealer said the CVT oil flush is about 2 hours labor, PLUS 1-2 hours additional for a tech to drive the car and "re-program/re-learn" the CVT??? Can anyone shed any light on this? It makes no sense to me and I would like to ask the dealer to show me this procedure documented from Subaru. thanks Tristan

I have discussed CVT oil change with the dealer that I like and trust, and they said that they haven't been touching them any sooner than 60K. I have about 52K miles now, but if the engine/trans warranty ends at 60K, it seems risky to change the CVT oil right at the end of the warranty. Any suggestions? (I guess I could change it now, and have 8,000 miles left under warranty) Tristan

Is there a place to read (download the PDF) to all of the TSB's? like all of the items on this site: http://techinfo.subaru.com/static/whatsNew.html I have found a few things that MAY apply to my car, but I cannot tell without reading the entire report. thanks

Holygow What is the cost on that repair? Will you be changing the cvt oil at time as well?

I have about 38,000 miles on my 2013 2.5 and things have been smooth with no issues. I changed both the front and rear diff, but have not touched the CVT yet.