ClimberDHexMods

Two Notes:

1) This is very easy with proper preparation, will save you a lot of money, and will give extra years to your 5EAT.

2) I don't have pictures of it being done on an LGT, so I'm blatantly using other peoples' photos and videos to illustrate the point.

I do this to all my cars, same procedure. All my cars shift perfectly.

Things you need:

1) ~12 quarts ATF (OEM Subaru HP+; Amsoil ATF; Mobil 1 Full Synthetic ATF)

2) Funnel that fits into your transmission's dipstick tube / fill tube.

3) Graduated bucket (bucket to catch fluid, with markings to tell you how many gallons are in it.

4) Plyers, basic other hand tools.

5) Optional part 1 of 2: 3/8" doubled sided hose barb, auto parts store or hardware store. You might not need this, but it costs $2.

6) Optional part 2 of 2: 10' of 3/8" I.D. hose, cheap, auto parts store or hardware store.

5) The cognizance that cars are cramped, dirty, sensitive machines that you should not mess with if you do not know what you are doing.

Summary of Process:

1) Unplug ATF cooler line return hose from any return pipe section. (If you don't know whether a line is output or return, unplug a line and run the engine for a couple seconds. The line that spits out fluid is the line you want.

2) Optional: Connect an extension hose (use barb adapter if attaching hose to hose.

3) Put graduated bucket next to open driver door, put extension length of hose in bucket. Maybe tape it so it doesn't fall out.

4) Turn engine on. Turn engine off when A) bucket fills with 3-4 quarts of ATF, or 2) trans starts making an odd noise.

5) Use funnel, put matching amount of fresh ATF into trans.

6) Repeat 4 and 5, this time quickly switching into Reverse, Neutral, Drive (but don't let the car move).

7) Repeat 4, 5, 6 until you run out of fresh ATF, or ATF starts coming out clean.

8) After car is put back together, drive for 10 minutes around town (with funnel and extra fluid in car). Then with car idling, check fluid level, get it between the two HOT marks.

Note: People like to complicate the heck out of this. Keep it as simple as possible, as few steps as possible. Example: If you have a friend to start and stop the engine at your command, then you may not need to rig up an extension hose if you can get your fluid catch bucket under the car. You also don't need a graduated bucket if you have a general sense for how much fluid is going in your bucket. Absolutely no need to pull the pan plug. Waste of time.

Watch this video:

Skip to 2:57 for instructions. Everything else is a waste of time.

This great walkthrough shows the several trans ATF cooler hoses/pipes you can unplug on page 3,4,5, and it shows a sample double sided 3/8" hose barb on page 1. http://subaru.rockhopjohn.com/Transcool.pdf

Example on a Toyota Truck (skip to Step 4 and 5): http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/61-2nd-generation-2005/326809-diy-full-automatic-transmission-flush.html

On the LGT: The cooler pipes run along the driver side framerail up to the front of the car. You can pull a line under the car if you remove the skid plate. There are lots of pictures somewhere on this forum of this area of ATF cooler lines. If you have links, post them please

Not all ATF cooler line routing is the same, from Legacy USD to Legacy JDM to Outback to Tribeca, 3.0r, there are variations. So pictures may or may not be indicative of what you will find on your vehicle. For example, the Tribeca ATF flows through the radiator in the opposite direction as the OBXT / 3.0R / LGT. So take the extra minute to check for yourself, assume nothing.

Basically, if you can't find the cooler lines, or can't get to them, that is a good indication that you might want to seek the guidance of a friend, or just simply not do this yourself. It's the kind of thing that is easy to do, and easy to screw up such that it ruins your day. As some CarTalk callers have admitted, even a simple oil change can end up taking days and require a tow truck if you unintentionally make a mistake.

Ask questions if you have any.

A word of caution...

A few days ago, someone on these boards reminded me of a risk of doing a complete flush all at once: If the fluid is VERY old, then there could be a lot of gunk buildup in the transmission.

ATF contains detergents, but this detergent cleaning ability fades over time. Putting all new ATF in a gunky transmission could dislodge all that gunk too quickly, causing the clogging of certain parts of the trans.

If you want to be careful to avoid this risk, then BEFORE you do the full flush:

Remove one old quart of ATF, and replace with one new quart, then drive around for 100 miles. Then repeat once or twice more, or until you feel confident that you are not going to unleash a wave of gunk deposits. This is being seriously careful; use your judgement.

I would not worry about this problem at 30k or even at 60k miles, but at over 100k, consider it.

My tranny scared me shitless when it was low enough on fluid to not allow the car to move. Not sure where the fluid WENT, but it was a quart low.

 

When I did my VB I didnt do any cycling on stands, but rather in my driveway and took it easy on the road through all gears.

Been there done that. I was down a quart after my first swap, though it took going on a few miles of road for the level to drop that much. Got there, had a very hard time getting back. Then added ATF and all was well.

ClimberD,

 

Is there anything the LGT community can do to help expedite the valve-body development for the '08-'09 model years?

 

What do you need to finish the project?

 

I will eventually need an 08/09 to play around with. But that's on me to buy it, not you guys. Other than that, I'm slowly pulling things together. Life got a bit ugly, I guess that happens.

 

Aquaflight

How long before it figures it self out I know it will take the car a little time to get used to the new valve body, anyone that has one care to share?

100-400 miles. It's a total pain in the butt for the first hour.

Can the the line pressure be increased using a programmer to create firmer/quicker shifts without damaging the 5EAT in a 2012 3.6R?

The answer to this is surprisingly complicated. There are some clever experimental tricks that can be performed to the ECU tune to increase line pressure (somewhat) as a side effect of changing other things. This is well beyond the scope of this thread, and will take a lot of digging and experimenting to get a good answer.

08 still slow going, still working in that direction.

Yes, once day, written up in easy-to-digest format.

~51k, no ATF service history to my knowledge. I guess I should start looking into that.

All of that ATF has to go. Replace it all with either Amsoil ATF, Mobil 1 Full Synthetic ATF, or Subaru ATF HP for 5eat. Confirm the fluid level after a drive, then check back in. And try to find a low pressure flush machine service that pumps the fluid in the normal direction of flow, and if you're lucky, lets the trans pump out the old fluid on its own power. Not cheap, but you don't have a choice. Also cheaper than any alternative.

Alright- been having some issues with 2-3 shift slipping. I originally noticed it a couple weeks ago (completely stock, no tune), had it in intelligent mode & manual, merging onto the highway WOT (i didnt upshift manually). Slipped pretty bad and then slammed into 3rd. Figured it was because i was in and it shifts slower. Tried to recreate it, and didnt slip in S# (dont think i tried S). Since then i got an accessport and running the stage 1 93 map. Similar thing happened the other day merging on the highway- i was in manual- S this time, didnt upshift, and it slipped bad. Recreated the slip in S (both manual and auto mode). did not slip in S#. So my question- are my clutch packs wearing out or is the shift too slow? or a little of both?

How many miles? What is the ATF service history?

What size are the rubber transmission lines that are towards the front of the car under the battery tray?

 

I am trying to order a t fitting so that I can install a temp sensor that is 1/8" npt.

 

Prosport sells an 8mm barb fitting tee contraption but that equals out to be just a bit less than 3/4" according to a google search.

 

When I sent the diagram of the prosport fittings out for a quote, the guy got back to me with "are you sure it is 8mm? It is very similar to a 5/16"."

 

Now I am confused, so I am wondering what size the rubber hose is so I can get the proper barb fitting.

 

Thanks.

I forgot which, the inside diameter of the hoses are either 5/16" or 3/8". All google search results say 3/8", so there you go http://subaru.rockhopjohn.com/Transcool.pdf

Take a look at this: http://www.jegs.com/i/Mr.+Gasket/720/2975/10002/-1

My understanding is that Subaru Extra S gear oil is to make the Subaru MT box shift like butter. However, when it comes to the front diff, there's no need for a fancy gear oil. It's just a rack and pinion and some spyder gears up front. Unless you have my diff, which is a mechanical TBD, and even that still doesn't need anything special. Name brand synthetic 75W-90, or whatever your climate dictates.

http://mkiv.supras.org.nz/images/articles/torsen3.gif

Right now I think my setup runs from transmission-->radiator-->cooler-->filter-->transmission

 

I'm hoping to put the thermostat in between the radiator and the cooler. The system should run just like stock unless extra cooling is needed, in which case the thermostat will divert the fluid through the aftermarket cooler.

Sounds great, post pics

I pieced it together in the past by looking at the diagrams on opposedforces.com/parts.

I forgot again whether fluid flows from driver side to passenger side or vise versa through the radiator, but IIRC it's passenger to driver. Check first. Once you confirm that detail, you can trace the whole thing easily.

That said, anywhere is fine as long as it's after the radiator. If you want to be a perfectionist, put it after the filter, before fluid returns to the trans. But again, it's a cooler thermostat install, not turbo selection.

I'll post this here in hopes for a response, Every parts site I've looked doesnt show a difference in front axles/cv boot kits between manual and auto trans Is this actually the case that they use the same axle/boots? Doesn't seem right to me

It's actually the case

The parts of the diff that receive the male axle stubs are the same.

I am sure it's been mentioned before, but I have an 05 LGT, and when I start it for the first time in the day, it hard shifts into 2nd. What am I looking for to fix this or just take it to Subaru?

There isn't much you can do. You can try changing out your old ATF for fresh new. The TCU tune for line pressure scaled to temperature is very aggressive. Once the fluid warms up, the transmission shifts much more gently. It's mostly a software thing.

Any progress for the '08~ cars?

None recently. I haven't given up though. Life happened, not in the way I was hoping.

I'm going to try it out. Ive got a GoPro with headmount that would be perfect to record this with.

 

Just want to be sure that the possible shock on the drivetrain would not damage anything... such as the center diff that seems to be made of glass.

 

The F1 is absolutely great. Best mod ive done to the car. I would like to see if I can take it a step furthur. I believe David described it as "using a grenade launcher to kill a bug" or something like that. I'm looking to take out the everlasting roaches.

I might be able to build you a real neck-snapping valve body in a few months. No promises, but if you really want to test the 5EAT's breaking point then that would be the way to go. I wouldn't run it on mine for fear of breaking things, but it's your car and your freedom to do what you want with it

if it failed open why wouldn't I be able to get into 5th gear? Wouldn't it be operating exactly the same was as it is now with no thermostat?

 

You don't recommend any thermostat in particular do you?

I don't have enough experience to comment on brand reliability, but I have seen them on some pretty high quality builds, FWIW.

Trans won't let you go into 5th gear if ATF is too cold (in order to help it warm up). Maybe you can override in Manual, I haven't watched for that in particular. If you're not looping out the stock radiator from the ATF path, then it will not be as obvious. If you're looping out the stock radiator, then it will be very obvious if the thermostat fails.

Looking at possibly grabbing a derale 13011 thermostat. Anyone know if these will fail "open" or "closed" or have a good reason why I should get a different thermostat?

I don't know, but...

If it fails open, you won't be able to get into 5th gear,

If it fails closed, your ATF temp light will come on.

So either way, you will have a pretty good indication that something failed.

i use to have a SC3800 in my 98 GTP with practice i was able to do full plug job in under an hour,

Only takes me 30 minutes to do all 4 plugs on the LGT, with practice, and most importantly, knowing the right combo of u-joint and extensions.

Pop the plastic upper off. Cake work

The back 3 are still tight, and getting the plastic off both sides is a bit of a job by itself.

Is it at all possible to modify an 05/06 tcu for rev matching?

Nope. TCU does send a timing-pull to the ECU for shifting, which is as good as it is going to get with stock TCU.

Anyone know the part number to the 5eat transmission pan filter? Can't seem to find it. Thanks for any help.

I don't see a part number for it. It's a strainer, not a filter like the 08-09 VB. Transtar sells it now, probably an aftermarket version.

maybe, mine relearned on it's own just fine

others have used the FreeSSM to reboot the TCU

 

Dave, what are your thoughts on this?

It should re-learn on its own, but I have heard instances where it gets hung up and does not learn like it normally should. Hard to say what was going on there, since usually an F1 customer has already modified half the car.

Shifting 101, 1st is the gear used to take off from a dead stop. It is not a cruising gear or used for anything else. On MTs it won't even go in 1st unless you're almost at a dead stop. Too often have I seen drivers that deem themselves good mt drivers try to force it into 1st.

The gearing causes such an abrupt change that it cannot possibly be helpful or healthy, mt or at. I would stop using it I such a manner.

I would have to look at the power flow diagrams once more to confirm, but as far as I know the wear comes from a tremendous resistance going from 2nd to 1st. The actual engine braking involves one or two other transmission brakes, depending on which mode you're in (D or Sport/Manual).

Brake pads are cheaper than a transmission. I could understand if you were going down a hill that was long/steep enough to cause significant brake fade / failure that downshifting to 1st might be necessary--I doubt that's the case though.

I don't think it makes a major difference, but I'm of the school of thought that you primarily use the pedals to do the work.

>Brake pads are cheaper than a transmission<

 

That's of course a true statement, but it says nothing about whether using engine braking shortens the life of the transmission. I've seen or heard no evidence that it does. It's how I learned to drive a long time ago, I've done it with all my cars (which I've driven up to 280K miles), and have never had a transmission problem, auto or manual.

See above, the act of a heavy gear change causes wear. Infrequently = little wear. Often = more wear.

By the same token, never shifting means your transmission will last nearly forever.