fishbone

What's the history of SOA with fluid changes? Think back to the change interval for motor oil. It has been revised based on experience. It used to be that on turbo engines you could use regular oil and run it for 7K miles under certain conditions. This has changed, all turbo engines are now under severe driving interval, with 3750 mile change interval and synthetic is the recommended oil. So, as consumers, we're watching out for long term reliability and not becoming a stat. Therefore I would argue that at any point outside the warranty period, if you drive your car in city traffic, it might be a good idea to have a fluid drain and fill prior to the 100K mark. This doesn't have to be rocket science and the fluid change isn't that difficult either; it is in the realm of a shade tree mechanic doing it.

This is not exactly true. The manual does contain criteria for checking and changing the CVT fluid. Taken from Cars101.com http://www.cars101.com/subaru/outback/outback2015.html Hard driving isn't defined, but severe is, so decide for yourself where "hard driving" falls under. http://www.cars101.com/subaru/maintenance-2015.html Now, a question worth asking SOA if they are willing to publish in writing, is defining "lifetime". Consumers mistakenly believe "lifetime" to mean "forever". Many manufacturers use this term, none that I know of are willing to define it, because they essentially set themselves a standard by which they can be legally held, and this is something nobody wants. Lifetime to me means the life of the unit. It could be 100K, 200K, 20K, but at 20K at least you have a warranty.

Hey, for those doing UOAs, I would love to send some $ your way via PayPal or whatever (bitcoin?). This might be a worthy and noble contribution from others in the community so that we encourage more UOAs, that we ultimately start seeing some trends. What does everyone else think? Would this be worth setting up as a separate conversation so that it's more visible, for those going to the dealer to do a drain/fill? While they are at it maybe this will go towards encouraging them to take a sample.

Sounds like it's part of the valve body. If so, you may not be able to source it as an independent part. You may be stuck having to buy the whole valve body. http://www.car-part.com

Wow, looking good! I was definitely expecting advice for changing the fluid.

Me too, but if you crack open the maintenance book and all you see is a bunch of dealer trips "for stuff", that turns people off. It's a well known fact. This is why manufacturers always try to push the envelope and go for longer intervals and less things to do.

Yes it would be that difficult. It won't just bolt up to the rest of the drivetrain, you're also looking at replacing harnesses, etc. It's neither cheap nor straight forward. Forget it as a viable option.

Because from a customer satisfaction's standpoint, as little maintenance as possible always scores big.

That settles it. Thanks! The transmission fluid exchange would be done while the engine was running, with the transmission operating as well. The pump would be pushing out the old fluid and sucking in the new fluid. This is how a total fluid exchange is done, and normally needs right around 13 quarts for a trans that holds around 10. In your case, the fluid you have now is 60% new mixed in with 40% old.

Fluid change = flush. For all intents and purposes these are interchangeable, the clarifying point is over HOW they went about changing the fluid. This is important, because if they did a manual drain and fill, meaning they trained what was in the pan and filled it back up, then they only replaced about half to 60% of the fluid which is now mixed with old fluid. It is better than nothing, but a fluid change done with a machine (aka flush), pushes out ALL old fluid and replaces it with new. That's what I was trying to find out, if they did a pan drain/fill, or they hooked up a fluid exchange machine which is traditionally known as a fluid flush.

Can you clarify, what did the machine look like? Are you sure it wasn't a fluid exchange system, meaning a transmission flush machine?

I know what you guys mean when you say "insurance", but the correct term is warranty. In the industry, there is no such thing as insurance to cover parts that break down due to manufacturer defects or wear and tear. When you say insurance it is taken to mean auto insurance, which never pays for part failures unless there was a covered event. mhoran89, if you do an analysis on the CVT, definitely report back, we'd love to hear.

The only thing you need as far as I know, to perform a fluid exchange, is a drain and fill plug. The CVT has both. The principle is quite simple. Allow the transmission to suck in clean fluid while it is spitting out the old fluid.

And if they did, how many did they perform? A single drain/refill only replaces part of the fluid. There's a couple ways to do the fluid replacement the right way. Either do several drain and fills, or do it via a fluid exchanger (aka ATF flush). I'm still looking into who has ATF flushing machines that are compatible with Subaru CVT. The best and only ones to use are those that do NOT force fluid in. Basicall, you've got a big bag of fresh fluid being sucked in, and the old one being spit out in another separate bag by the transmission's own pump.

Don't bother. No valve body upgrades for the 08-09. I've got an IPT valve body and while I can definitely agree it could have been modded to higher performance, it's kept my trans alive for 116K miles, 80K of which have been at Stage 2.

Problem is user manual creates the perception that no service required or necessary for the CVT unless you drive the car hard, like towing stuff with it. Many dealers will say the same thing. As such, the majority of owners aren't touching the transmission during the time they are failing. In addition, the TSB makes no mention of the valve failing due to fluid contamination or break-down. It talks about thrust washer wear and does not tie it to being caused specifically by neglected ATF. I am not saying that's not the case, just a simple observation. It could be that there's not enough evidence to correlate the two. I tend to agree, seeing that there's no consistency on the mileage at which this occurs.

Uh-oh. Our Outback once in a blue moon shudders and the rpms drop low and rise back to where they need to be. I hope it's not a symptom of that valve in the converter starting to act up. Is this how the problem started for anyone else?

A thousand times this. The needle is for coolant. Oil and ATF will take longer to warm up.

Unplugging the battery does not reset the learned shifting behavior of the TCU. The only way that can be achieved is via the dealer SSM (Subaru Select Monitor) tool, or FreeSSM if your transmission is supported. And yes, sucky shifting is a reality in very cold temps, at least for a while.

There's always gonna be some outliers out there. If I can find a shop that i can trust and has a CVT flushing machine on site, I'm going to get it done. I'd rather pay them than spend all that time under the car.

Correct, I am asking about the CVT. I've got the 05 licked We have a 2011 Outback in the family, wife's car.

What's the procedure for fluid check at the dealer? Do they insert a sensor which takes a reading of the fluid, or do they drain a bit for visual inspection? Cost? I'm coming close to 70K miles, wanna know where I stand.

Despite the fact that I agree with you, consider what you're saying: as a customer, I have to navigate a manufacturer's products, and avoid certain ones in order to get what I want, and that's reliability. That is exactly a good reason to ditch that manufacturer altogether.

I've literally had this click for years, talking about more than 5 years. Had it on other cars, it's simply a worn out padding or some such. Nothing to worry about, I know you know this, just posting it for others.

Wasn't the consensus best to do it 3 times since you're still mixing old with new fluid at every change. A pan drain gets about 4.5 quarts out, is that correct? I have 30K on my Amsoil ATF and while it looks like new I want to do one pan drain/fill to keep it fresh. I figured one 5 quart jug should be enough.