BMW 3 Series

I was wondering how many people on this forum have driven a BMW 3 series and I was wondering how it compared to the Legacy GT?

I have owned 3 and driven several other 3 series BMW's. It's an apples to oranges comparison in my opinion. There is nothing quite like the steering and balance of a 3 series with the sport suspension. However, unless you have an E46 M3 it's not particularly fast. I like the versatility of the LGT and awd, but I sure would like to have an M3. It just isn't an every day driver. (Neither is my Evo)

 

There are reasons for the high cost of BMW's. It's hard to quantify quality and feel.

Whether they are worth the money depends on what you want from a vehicle, and the family budget.

Bluesmaster does service on the BMW cost more than the Legacy?

Service cost will be @ least twice as much sometimes higher:( The new 330i is pretty quick(strong up top) with a 6MT... it is about as quick as a stock GT 5MT.

It will just set you back another 15K:eek:

Hmmm let's see. I traded in my 2003 E46 M3 (6MT) on an 05 LGT. I have since traded in my 05 LGT on an 06 LGT Spec B.

 

In short, the M3 was infinitely quicker, faster and handled better than the LGT. The M3 looked awesome and the options were incredible. The transmission and inline six, smooth as can be when being worked out. Maintenace is free for the first 4 years, so never had to pay for anything. After that it is VERY expensive.

 

So if it was that great why get rid of it? Two recalls to have the crankshaft replaced, three control modules (service bulletins/recalls) for the chassis electronics. I hated driving down the road and things would stop working like the door locks, windows, etc. Build quality su**ed. Even though the materials were great, installation was less than optimal. Lower the windows (when they worked) and it was even odds that the window molding would come down with it. None of these were just my car, they were problems with the whole line (like I said, numerous recalls and service bulletins). All this in the first 8k miles. Also, my commute is 32 miles each way. Part highway, part stop and go. The 6MT is not friendly in stop and go. Stiff clutch while great on the open road would KILL my leg by the time I got to work. Besides, that car is high strung and meant to be driven...it is not really designed for traffic, unless you get the SMG.

 

I really liked my M3 and it was one of those cars I always wanted. Unfortunately my expectations of a $57k were higher than the car could deliver. The performance met my expectations, the rest didn't.

Now the LGT, it handles about 75% as well stock and while it is not as fast, feels more than fast enough for everyday driving. It is not as high strung so easier to drive on a daily basis. I had 20k on my 05 when I traded it in and did not have a single issue with it. None. It cost about half as much as the M3, and per capita it is a much better car.

^^ Wow, that's grounds for a defamation and libel suit from BMW.

 

The last time I was at my dealer, who's also a BMW/Porsche/Acura/Amerishit dealer, I saw an M3 with the molding dangling and I snickered a lil on teh inside.

I drove a friend of mine's 06 325i, I am not sure what options were on there, but it just felt soft, and not too maneuverable. I felt disconnected from the road essentially. I know the engine isn't as strong, but on the whole, I was just confused with where things were on the inside. It wasn't intuitive where things were, even the window controls, just seemed in an awkward position. This was the first BMW I was ever in, so I don't know how other BMW's are layed out.

Bluesmaster does service on the BMW cost more than the Legacy?

 

Service and maintenance is free the first 4/48. After that, look out. BMW's in general require more service the Subies. I wouldn't want to be out of warranty in a Beemer. They also are expensive to mod, and BMW isn't any more warranty mod friendly than Subaru or Mitsubishi.

Also, it looks like the BMWs get most of that "Ride on Rails" from very high negative camber settings, which consequently eats thru tires, and not from some "magic" suspension.

I am about to get into Spec30 racing.. pending on the sale of the car right now...

i was driving the E46 325Ci before LGT, it does have beautiful handling but of course not as quick as the LGT. like everyone here says, quality was pretty bad. the wood trim cracked i 3 different places, not from neglect either, the window mouldings sag down and needed to be re-glued, you don't get free oil changes until the engine light says so.

I leased a 2002 BMW 330ci for three years before I purchased my LGT Limited. I'd have to generally concur with Keith05LegacyGT above, with the obvious proviso that I drove the 330ci and he drove an ealier M3 variant. I would indeed give the straight line performance edge to the LGT over the 330ci and the dry-road handling edge to the 330ci (I had the sport suspension). Insofar as quality problems were concerned, I had no problems with the BMW. When my 330ci lease ran out, I would have considered the new 2005-06 3-series had it been out in coupe form at the time, but it wasn't. Nevertheless, I'm very happy with the LGT because it offered so much performance for so much less -- and I commute approximately 500 miles per week in New England (so the AWD is very important). The only three things I would fix on it are: (1) improve the audio system; (2) reduce the body roll; and (3) improve the brakes.

A stock 2001 330Ci, with the sport package, is slower than a stock Legacy GT, the Legacy GT pulls the 330 hard enough to catch and pass from ~20 mph two car lengths back to +1 car at speeds over 130. From a stop, the Beemer has no chance unless the other driver screws up.

 

As far as handling goes, it comes down to the driver, My Legacy GT was 1.5 seconds faster on an autocross course, but that may have been the driver...

 

All that said, I still love that BMW, near perfect steering, and a lot of nice features...

I have an (older) E36. It is a factory sports pack with mild upgrades (reduced toe-in front and back, M3 rear bar, -1.25 camber in the front, Bilsteins).

 

Voicing my opinion here may come across like farting in church, but it's only my experience. Except for engine power and road noise, my decade old 325 is a *much* nicer car to drive. The E36 suspension takes the edge off w/o being floaty (unlike the LGT, but that may be because of nice damping in my 325) and the handling is sublime. It can be trail-braked at abandon, with amusingly accessible oversteer. And the onset of a slide is very very subtle. Then, there is the song from the well tuned straight 6. The engine note on the LGT on the other hand... And the pedal placement and throttle response are plain perfect for heel and toeing in the E36.

 

BUT, it is a much smaller car, much slower and things break (AC condensor, VANOS unit, tranny(warr.), radiator, etc). The handling equation will also change if you are exposed to inclement weather - I live in San Diego.

 

We needed a bigger car. So we got rid of our 92 325 (yup- we were perverted, we had 2 of the same kind:) ), and succumbed to the allure of a speedy wagon. Now I need to lineup my suspension and brake options. Great info on this site!

 

Cheers

I have driven (but not owned) E30, E36, and E46 3-series BMWs, but not the E90 yet. I'll discuss the E46.

 

I also assume you're asking about an '05 or '06 LGT. The previous generation Legacy, though a good car for its intended market, wasn't even close to BMW luxury or sportiness. The redesign narrowed the gap substantially.

 

The Legacy is closer in size to a 5-series than a 3-series. An Impreza is closer in size to the 3-series. So, in that sense, it's an apples and oranges comparison.

 

The BMW is substantially smoother and more refined than a 3 series. Few engines are smoother than the BMW inline-6.

 

The BMW has a much more cramped rear seat than the Legacy.

 

More safety features are available on the BMWs: stability control, traction control, and so forth. The inclusion of side and head airbags in the newest LGT narrows this gap.

 

Etc.

 

An M3 is basically a sports car in coupe form. A 325i is a nice small sedan (or coupe or wagon). A 330i is in between the two.

 

Others have discussed their experiences with BMW and Subaru service and reliability (or lack thereof).

 

So, a Legacy GT is a nice, somewhat larger car, for substantially less money (optioned roughly equally).

 

 

I was wondering how many people on this forum have driven a BMW 3 series and I was wondering how it compared to the Legacy GT?

Right now I'm drooling about a white/cinnamon, competition packadge, 6mt over at the local dealer. The local cost after importation tax? 85K

Personally speaking I don't like the appearence of the new 3-series, but I drove a 330i and pushed it to the max and it felt as precise as my cousins E46 M3 (which I have driven many many times as a DD ), its pretty quick and pretty smooth at the same time, but once again its apples to oranges. I personally like the Subaru because the price was attractive on top of moddability, if I had the money though and wanted something a little more "refined" I guess I would definately go for the 3. There is a reason it is a benchmark of all cars in its class and the new one definately sets a new bar up there. It also has this tendancy to feel faster than it actually is making it satisfying to drive, similiar to the effect of the E36 M3. Although it was only around 240 horses, it was the most usable and applicable 240 you could throw around around and was just a blast to drive (Even though my LGT is FASTAR!!! )

I was introduced to the Legacy GT during a Car & Driver road show sponsored by Subaru in 2004. We were able to toss around a Volve S60, a BMW 325i (not sure which one, but not a M3) and the Legacy GT.

 

As far as I was concerned, the Legacy beat the other two models in every way. It was funny though, how most of the folks gave their nod to the BMW. So obvious that they were biased toward the brand and really weren't being objective.

There is a reason it is a benchmark of all cars in its class and the new one definately sets a new bar up there.

 

Yes, there is something to be said about the German driving experience. There's also something to be said about the German maintenance experience. And it ain't good.

Yes, there is something to be said about the German driving experience. There's also something to be said about the German maintenance experience. And it ain't good.

 

Just like your gas gauge states "Ya gotta pay to play" plus depending on who you are you may not have to pay a cent out of your pocket for 5 years or so, then its time to get a new one...

Hmmm let's see. I traded in my 2003 E46 M3 (6MT) on an 05 LGT. I have since traded in my 05 LGT on an 06 LGT Spec B.

 

In short, the M3 was infinitely quicker, faster and handled better than the LGT. The M3 looked awesome and the options were incredible. The transmission and inline six, smooth as can be when being worked out. Maintenace is free for the first 4 years, so never had to pay for anything. After that it is VERY expensive.

 

So if it was that great why get rid of it? Two recalls to have the crankshaft replaced, three control modules (service bulletins/recalls) for the chassis electronics. I hated driving down the road and things would stop working like the door locks, windows, etc. Build quality su**ed. Even though the materials were great, installation was less than optimal. Lower the windows (when they worked) and it was even odds that the window molding would come down with it. None of these were just my car, they were problems with the whole line (like I said, numerous recalls and service bulletins). All this in the first 8k miles. Also, my commute is 32 miles each way. Part highway, part stop and go. The 6MT is not friendly in stop and go. Stiff clutch while great on the open road would KILL my leg by the time I got to work. Besides, that car is high strung and meant to be driven...it is not really designed for traffic, unless you get the SMG.

 

I really liked my M3 and it was one of those cars I always wanted. Unfortunately my expectations of a $57k were higher than the car could deliver. The performance met my expectations, the rest didn't.

Now the LGT, it handles about 75% as well stock and while it is not as fast, feels more than fast enough for everyday driving. It is not as high strung so easier to drive on a daily basis. I had 20k on my 05 when I traded it in and did not have a single issue with it. None. It cost about half as much as the M3, and per capita it is a much better car.

 

Stage II on that Spec B baby of yours, and you will see performance close to M3 numbers my friend.. .heheheheheeh

 

Same happened to me on a 2002 Audi S4 Imola Yellow, the car of my dreams, tuned and tweaked, putting down almost 400hp @ crank and veeeeery fast, however the car falls apart, the quality is not just the same as an old A6 that I had, which was bulletproof, still love that 2.2 inline 5 turbo engine from Audi... :-)

 

Flavio Zanetti

Boston, MA

My wife wants a Mazda3, but I really like that 325i.

 

Currently saving my pennies.

 

I wonder how hard of an insurance hit it would be.

Never had a single problem with the car, infinitly more refined and handles much better. Also I don't know what the one fella was saying about eating throught tires, even with the 18s and Pilotsports the car has 30,000 miles on the stock tires with plenty of tread left.

^ Do you have the Sport Suspension package?

Of course, silly to get a 3-series without one.