Reloadit Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Driving in the mountains after replacing the thermostat and hoses my car went to 7/8 to the top of the temp gauge and and then cooled right back down once I topped the mountain. I have been reading a lot on it about changing the radiator cap and flushing the radiator even head gasket issues but there was no overflow of fluid in the overflow and there is no sign of fluid in the oil. I did just read that it could be an air bubble and that while on incline it could leave the air bubble right at the heat sensor. They suggested parking it on an incline and take the cap off and start it up and rev the engine up and see if it burps. I like that idea because they say it can happen after changing the coolant. The question I have, should I see fluid circulating when the car is running and looking through the open cap? Also, does the air bubble scenario seem pretty reasonable or is that wishful thinking on my part? Regards, David You may have an air bubble in the system that causes the thermosensor to not be immersed in coolant when you're under an incline. An airbubble is never good because it means that the car cannot efficiently cool itself but in this cause it is even worse because it actually causes the fans to not come on. Try this on the car once is has cooled off and you can touch the radiator: Park it on a slight incline or ramp, take the radiator cap off and start the car. Add some coolant once in a while and observe what it is doing. Rev the engine up and down some. You'll note a large air bubble burp out once in a while. When you do, add more coolant until the burping stops. Close off the radiator and try driving it again. Most cars have a burping valve on top of the engine but Subaru does not. Subarus especially are kinda picky when they are refilled with coolant. If you had a leak, it may not have been fully filled. Often it is best park it on ramps, to take the top radiator hose off the radiator, leaving the other end onto the engine and stick a funnel into it to fill the engine up first. Then when done, very quickly, push it back onto the radiator. That tends to minimize air bubbles. - See more at: http://community.cartalk.com/discussion/2287337/overheating-on-mountain-roads#sthash.wZCTTwJK.dpuf [url=http://community.cartalk.com/discussion/2287337/overheating-on-mountain-roads#sthash.wZCTTwJK.dpuf][/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zues Marine Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Very likely if you're confident it isn't the the infamous headgaskets thats a big wall of text on my phone so im just going to answer what i think you're asking The way i bleed air from coolant lines- -jack the front up/ park on a hill, nose up -stick a funnel in the radiator -start the car, let it idle for a few secs -fill the coolant until it starts backing up -alternate between squeezing the top radiator hose and bottom one, filling the coolant as the air comes out of the system and is replaced by the coolant in the funnel -i've never had a problem doing it that way, and i didnt have to sit and rev the motor in hopes the air finds its way out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reloadit Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 Very likely if you're confident it isn't the the infamous headgaskets thats a big wall of text on my phone so im just going to answer what i think you're asking The way i bleed air from coolant lines- -jack the front up/ park on a hill, nose up -stick a funnel in the radiator -start the car, let it idle for a few secs -fill the coolant until it starts backing up -alternate between squeezing the top radiator hose and bottom one, filling the coolant as the air comes out of the system and is replaced by the coolant in the funnel -i've never had a problem doing it that way, and i didnt have to sit and rev the motor in hopes the air finds its way out Thank you Zues, should I see fluid circulating once it is up to operating temperature? I will watch the head gasket, be sure of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Follow the steps zues marine gave you and take that plug out of the radiator on the opposite side of the radiator cap (be careful taking the plug out and use a #3 phillips screwdriver) get car to normal idle fill with coolant until it comes out of the hole, reinstall the plug and radiator cap and go around the block to get it to operating temp. If it gets hot and temp drops to normal immediately, repeat the steps. Those steps may have to be taken twice to get air completely out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snederhiser Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Hello; Are your cooling fans working? Check the coolant temp sensor (2 Pin) and fans. Always install an OEM thermostat, nothing else! I always turn on the heater when filling the car with antifreeze, and use the above instructions. Head gasket issues are easy to spot! Brown oily slime in the overflow bottle is the first clue, contaminated oil and coolant are the second. Subies are a reverse cooling system, return on the bottom and feed on the top. So the importance of not having any air in the system. Steven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reloadit Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 Thanks everyone. I just tried Zeus's recommendation except squeezing the bottom hose because it is a universal flex hose and hard as heck to squeeze. I only got the front of the car about 10 inches higher. I will do it again, the car is at operating temperature already, when I open it up it does not spew out and so far nothing has gone into the overflow. Oil still looks fine on the dip stick. The fluid I drained out of the radiator when replacing the hoses was clean. I did put an Napa brand thermostat in and I haven't replaced the cap yet. When I just tried to bleed the air out using the funnel and elevated front end I got no more than a cup of antifreeze in it and when I put the cap back on it was so full it squeezed a little out. I will get right back to work and let you all know. Another quick question about transmission, is it better to just change the filter and fluids or use some kind of treatment for having so many miles? I have a can of Trans Tune I haven't put in yet because I don't have confidence in it and worry about it being a high priced gimmick. Thanks again everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Your car automatic transmission I take it? If so what are the miles? Is your tranny not shifting right or making noise? Wondering if you are doing this for p.m or you actually have issues with it. The filters are serviceable some people say you shouldn't service them, if you don't trust the tranny fluid additive you have I would suggest the lubeguard in the red bottle..a lot of guys here have used it with good results. I used it to take out some torque bind, and it worked for a while but I think the binding was too far advanced for a complete fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 You only need a slight lift in the front for the burping, all your doing is letting physics give you a helping hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reloadit Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 Your car automatic transmission I take it? If so what are the miles? Is your tranny not shifting right or making noise? Wondering if you are doing this for p.m or you actually have issues with it. The filters are serviceable some people say you shouldn't service them, if you don't trust the tranny fluid additive you have I would suggest the lubeguard in the red bottle..a lot of guys here have used it with good results. I used it to take out some torque bind, and it worked for a while but I think the binding was too far advanced for a complete fix. There is no hard shifting and I'm not sure if it is binding because I don't know what that is in relation to the transmission. It has 213000 miles on it. What I notice most that makes me wonder about the tranny is when I drive it when it is cold it sometimes feels like it might be slipping when cruising at low speeds like 20 miles per hour. If I give it a little gas it responds fine. I only notice a very slight sluggish hesitation at the low cruising speeds. I guess it could be fuel related and I plan on changing the fuel filter especially since suby was nice enough to put it right on top! I am interested in p.m and what I have is the Sea Foam Trans Tune but I can sure take it back and get the Lubegaurd. What is your recommendation on adding it? Do I just top off the resevoir or do I need to remove some tranny fluid? OH YEA, I did get maybe two cups more of fluid into the radiator when I pulled the set screw and ran the heater. Burped a little air out of the set screw. Will have to take it into the mountains to see if all my efforts have prevailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Binding is in relation to the torque converter and front differential, it puts the diffs into a 50/50 split full time. If you don't know what it feels like you can test for it on a dirt road or lot, turning in tight circles with your steering wheel at full lock. If its binding you will know it. Sea foam makes great products for sure, I personally haven't used that particular fluid but tend to stick with what worked for me. Just take a look at your atf and diff oils, if they are super dark and smell like ass I would just replace those and see how it works for you. You can also put your car in FWD and see if there are any shifting changes. Your absolutely right that the hesitation your feeling could be fuel or spark delivery, if you just bought the car you should do a good tune-up. Clogged up air filter, dirty maf sensor there is a number of things that could cause hesitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reloadit Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 Thanks a ton. It sure doesn't bind in a paved parking lot. I will look the fluids over per your instructions and I will try the dirt parking lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 you may have to drain down the coolant and re-fill correctly in order to get rid of the air lock, if that is the problem.i know that sounds crazy but that may be what it takes. what t-stat did you use? if it was not a subaru t-stat from a dealer that may be your issue. these engine do not like after market t-stats. when you put them side by side you can see the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snederhiser Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Hello; Sounds to me that your transmission is working fine. Service with a new filter and fluid. Subie's are designed to slip a little on startup to warm up the trans fluid. There is a temp sensor located in the trans, Steven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reloadit Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 you may have to drain down the coolant and re-fill correctly in order to get rid of the air lock, if that is the problem.i know that sounds crazy but that may be what it takes. what t-stat did you use? if it was not a subaru t-stat from a dealer that may be your issue. these engine do not like after market t-stats. when you put them side by side you can see the difference. Hmmm, I have taken all the advice so far except squeeze the bottom hose because I can't do that easily because it is a universal flex hose and until I take it back in the mountains I won't be able to tell if I got it. Let me ask you this, if I do have a bubble in it and it registers hot because my heat sensor is detecting hot air, is it going to damage my engine? The engine isn't really that hot? I will get a Subaru thermostat. I'm also still curious as to what the normal operating temperature is. See photo to see the operating temp of my car. Hello; Sounds to me that your transmission is working fine. Service with a new filter and fluid. Subie's are designed to slip a little on startup to warm up the trans fluid. There is a temp sensor located in the trans, Steven. Any advice on a less expensive reputable filter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Squeezing the hoses isnt absolutely necessary, since the system is airtight an circulatory the same effect will be had by just squeezing the top one which still isn't necessary. You could do like john said and drain it and refill, with an oem t-stat. I have never had a problem with aftermarket t-stats, but a lot of people do from what I hear as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 If there is an airbubble in there it should come out with that method though, I do the flush in my car twice a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reloadit Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 If there is an airbubble in there it should come out with that method though, I do the flush in my car twice a year. I'm going to take it out this weekend and drive it in the mountains and see if my efforts to bleed the air was successful and if not I will drain it and start over on an incline as instructed. I'm still interested in knowing if the photo of my gauge is the normal temperature range. That was the temp before I changed hoses and thermostat and it stays steady right there under all driving conditions except for the exception when I climbed hills last sunday which I hope is alleviated now that I have been bleeding the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zues Marine Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 temp gauge looks fine to me... my needle has always sat a bit lower than midway also.. are you getting heat from your hvac? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reloadit Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 temp gauge looks fine to me... my needle has always sat a bit lower than midway also.. are you getting heat from your hvac? I'm not sure what hvac is, I do get heat from the heater. Thanks for clearing up my question on the op temp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 the air bubble is a problem because it basically prevents the coolant from circulating. not a big deal when idling or even around town, but on the hiway or up a mountain it could be a big deal. i hope this is a 2.2L engine. over heating a 2.5L engine several times will kill the head gaskets and possibly the rod bearings. how much coolant did it take to fill the system? read this: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/fill-and-burp-your-cooling-system-burpcoolingsystem-198487.html?t=198487&highlight=siphon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reloadit Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 It took about a gallon + 2 cups maybe 3. It's a 2.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 they all hold 6 qts. give or take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snederhiser Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Hello; Ditto on the temp gauge, mine reads exactly the same range! Steven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiyo1990 Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 What a few people said, air pocket. Try burping the system out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reloadit Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 I will be taking it to Hell's Canyon tomorrow. Will report back Monday with how it went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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