iNVAR Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I appreciate the detailed response, that helps to explain a lot. I sent a log before I fixed my UP leak and he said I was getting a little bit of knock right as boost came on and up top but not much but it suprised him because my timing wasnt very aggressive at all. He also said my car was trying for all it was worth to hit target boost and I'm going to assume that was due to the UP leak that was quite large. Does it make sense that if it was tuned with the leak that the tune would have been set to compensate for the leak and make it run not as rich because the turbo wasnt getting fed what it needed and then when I fixed it it all of a sudden had more flow so more fuel was needed and thats maybe where the +9% is coming from.No, an UP leak wouldn't affect your AFR. It affects spool a lot, and depending on the size of leak, your ability to hit and maintain boost. If you were tuned with a leak in your UP and your tuner compensated for it, you'd likely see overboost conditions. The reason it doesn't affect the AFR is because with that leak your turbo would pull in less air through your MAF sensor, which would read accordingly and your ECU would provide fuel accordingly. It wouldn't affect your fueling like that, no. Maybe your tuner messed with the scaling of your MAF, I don't know..... but I wouldn't get hung up on it, just like wiener said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 No, an UP leak wouldn't affect your AFR. WRONG! An UP leak can cause the front O2 sensor to read improperly, regardless of tune. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfarmeaahka Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 I am crossing my fingers that when I get off work today to log it its messing up (I feel really weird saying that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 WRONG! An UP leak can cause the front O2 sensor to read improperly, regardless of tune. Ah yes, I forgot about that. Apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 OP Your problem is most likely mechanical in nature and no amount of internet is going to help you. Seek out a competent shop. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfarmeaahka Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 The only shop around here would be the subaru dealership and I'm not really up for spending that amount of money quite yet. I am a tech in training at the nissan dealership and Ill probably try to get one of the other techs to help me even though no one here knows anything about subarus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfarmeaahka Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 I believe I'm doing this right but here should be my log. Judging by me not able to hit target boost I'm thinking maybe the guy before me who had the car set up with a stage 3 18g setup he might have put a bigger restrictor pill? So besides the +9% fuel, can the knock be fixed with a tune or what usually causes knock? I dont know if its a worn out motor or a leak can cause it, i have a metal skid plate that may cause false knock and i do get bad clutch/flywheel chatter but im not sure if thats typical for that to cause false knock or not.romraiderlog_20130215_183714.csv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Crap, I should've told you what to log for a more complete picture: A/F Learning #1 (2-byte)** (%) A/F Sensor #1 (2-byte)** (estimated AFR) Boost Error* (psi)Engine Load (4-Byte)* (g/rev) Engine Speed (rpm) Feedback Knock Correction (1-byte)** (degrees) Fine Learning Knock Correction (1-byte)** (degrees) Gear (Calculated)* (position) IAM (1-byte)** (multiplier) Ignition Total Timing (degrees) Intake Air Temperature (F) Knock Sum* (count) Manifold Relative Pressure (4-byte)* (psi relative) Mass Airflow (g/s) Primary Wastegate Duty Cycle (%) Primary Wastegate Duty Maximum* (4-byte)* (%) Target Boost (4-byte)* (psi relative sea level) Throttle Opening Angle (%) Turbo Dynamics Integral (4-byte)* (absolute %) Turbo Dynamics Proportional (4-byte)* (absolute %) I know I'm asking for a LOT of parameters, but it's fine... We're not tuning, so we don't need high logging resolution. We're troubleshooting. If RR messes/freezes up when you have all these parameters checked, then remove the "Primary Wastegate Duty Maximum" one. IAM would've been nice but it's not like you're hitting WG only pressure which is what would happen if it was the IAM disabling your boost. It looks like you're maxing out your WGDC (I can't tell for sure w/o those parameters) and riding the Max all the way to red line. I'm not concerned with the knock at this moment. More that you're off your boost curve by so much. Restrictor pill is a possibility, sure but you said you used to be hitting your target boost levels okay... You're currently Infamous tuned, right, didn't he say anything to you while tuning your car? I'd be surprised if he didn't notice something was up. A restrictor pill mixup causing you to underboost like should've been noticeable during tuning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfarmeaahka Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 I'll have to wait till tomorrow to log, it is a complete down poor here and I wouldn't feel comfortable going that fast with so much standing water. When the car is running good it isn't hitting any lower boost than when I first got tuned. I believe I still have the logs from then so I'll look but I have never seen over 16psi on my gauge and when I had it tuned I just assumed it was a couple pounds off because I was told it would be around 18psi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfarmeaahka Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 I cant post the logs tonight because im not around my computer but i have them on my phone. The highest Relative manifold pressure I hit on my last revision (5) was 16.54psi and I was told was a perfect log. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 That doesn't sound right... Your targets show 18 in your logs. You should ask Infamous, if he's who tuned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfarmeaahka Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 I mentioned to him the boost I hit on that final log was about a pound lower than the rev4 but he said it was due to the temp compensation. Rev4 was at 39° and a manifold relative pressure of 17.56psi and rev5 was 49° at 16.54psi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfarmeaahka Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 iNVAR I will try to get the log sometime this week for sure, I've got a lot of other things going on this week and I greatly appreciate you being willing to help me like this. Do you have much experience doing a leak test on a TMIC setup? And if so would you care if I emailed you a video from my phone of me doing one to show you what happened? I hooked it up to my intake right after the MAF from the tube off the air box and just putting 3.5-4lbs in it it started leaking out and making a noise like a duck or some crap. I was told its a valve thats supposed to do that buy a guy around here that has a subaru and I dont know if I believe it because I've read on here of many people that get it up to 10-15 lbs pressurizing right at the turbo and find leaks and with that noise on mine there is no way I could have heard a leak. So now im wondering if that noise was actually a leak on the turbo inlet. I'm thinking maybe that it was making that noise because it could have been a leak in my turbo inlet and it only makes the noise when pressureized and not under normal operation because its in a vacuum. And if thats the case thats going to throw off the MAF readings sense its after the MAF sensor and somewhat explains some of my issues possibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 That noise is normal. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/use-boost-leak-testeri-186219.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfarmeaahka Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 Alright, I'm about to do a log and hopefully it messes up. Do you think it would be worth a try to reload shamars last map? The only boost paremeter I have is boost pressure feedback % Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfarmeaahka Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 I didn't have the computer plugged in so I got all the parameters accept the one you said not to log if it froze because it froze. Unfortunately it was not only hitting 10 psi. Now that I think about it it hasen't done that sense I messed with my bcs.romraiderlog_20130219_190557.csv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I have to disagree with Shamar and I don't frequently do that. I usually keep my mouth shut when it comes to a tuner that is here on LGT... but based on that log, something's not right. You're riding the Max WGDC limit all the way to redline and you're missing your targets by a good amount and that is simply not right. You don't even come to within 1PSI of your target until 5KRPM where your targets start tapering down... I'm also going to reiterate what weiner said earlier about it being a hardware issue. Maybe email shamar this latest log and ask him to give you his opinion again, but that's how I feel about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfarmeaahka Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 I emailed him explaining the situation and sent him the last log I sent him from my tune and the log I did yesterday along with both LV's so we will see what he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfarmeaahka Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 I was looking at that last log again and it looks like everything is normal besides not hitting target boost until about 3200rpm and it shows knock for a second then boost drops then everything goes back to normal after that. I'm trying to think of what that little hiccup is. Could it be part of the tune where shamar maybe tuned it to advance timing around right there and the engine detects predetonation and backs off timing which cuts boost a little then is fine after? I've got a scan tool from a guy at work thats going to log my air fuel mixture under all conditions of driving, he told me to drive it cold until it warms up and go through all conditions. He has a lot of experience tuning turbo hondas so he knows about reading logs and tuning he just hasen't ever messed with a subaru. He suggested going to a stock tune and logging to see if it would do the same thing on a stock map but I told him I wouldnt be able to go to a stock map with the added upgrades I have. Shamar still hasen't gotten back with me but I'm sure it will take awhile, it usually does with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 OP Your problem is most likely mechanical in nature and no amount of internet is going to help you. Seek out a competent shop. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfarmeaahka Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 yeah I read that, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 then stop digging a hole here. The last guy that didn't listen to sensible advice is buying a new transmission right now. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I was looking at that last log again and it looks like everything is normal besides not hitting target boost until about 3200rpm and it shows knock for a second then boost drops then everything goes back to normal after that. I'm trying to think of what that little hiccup is. Could it be part of the tune where shamar maybe tuned it to advance timing around right there and the engine detects predetonation and backs off timing which cuts boost a little then is fine after? No, this is absolutely incorrect, and you're not hitting target boost at 3200. You never hit target boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfarmeaahka Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 I said besides hitting target boost. That was directed towards the knock and my boost levels themselves being related. As far as taking it to a shop, I do appreciate your openion and help but at the moment I would like to try a little more on my own. If I do mess something up that's my own fault and that will be a lesson learned making you right. To me it looks like I have 2 issues going on as far as predetonation and not hitting target boost. I haven't replaced spark plugs on the car and I got it about 20k miles ago so I'll be doing that and properly checking for boost leaks by pressurizing the system. If none of that helps ill be replacing parts that I may suspect being the culprit. As far as the target boost not ever being close especially with Shamar saying it was good makes me want to dig a little more into that with him if he gets back with me anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Sorry, I misread your post, I'm extremely tired and also stressed. Not conducive to reading comprehension... Stop looking at your knock problem. The point is you have an underlying issue that's causing your boost to not even hit, IMHO. Fix that first as it may be responsible for all other things. Treat the cause, not the symptoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.