SeeeeeYa Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 What AFR to use is often a controversial subject. I've found the internet full of BS about what is "safe" AFRs and what is not, especially relative to Subaru. For example, some of the so-called safe AFRs in the 10s, to me, is unsafe. To wit, I've posted various comments on appropriate Subaru forums. Basically, most tunes are way too rich... most of the time to cover the tuner's behind because the people getting tuned cheap-out and don't have a WBO2 to ensure their fueling. Once one has a WBO2 like the PLX I've always had, adding an AFR meter to keep an eye on is an indispensable gauge IMO. It will alert for any fuel issue from injector, pump, or tune among many others, immediately, possibly saving one's motor. All for cheap, relatively. That off my chest, another myth is that there is "an AFR" to be run. There isn't. Along the many paths that a motor may travel on its way from idle to redline there are many AFRs for each step of the way, still referring to Open Loop, of course. So there is no AFR to be quoted, and hearing someone do so indicates they are ill-informed (along with being without a WBO2). Take the case of what is too often described as a "safe" AFR... 10.x. Take a good look at all the available pictures of cracked ringlands. A good long look at as many as you can find. You will see evidence of carbon build up... in the ringland area as well as piston tops. That is from unburned fuel. As in RICH AFRs where too much is left over from combustion. Too much fuel can also cause the vey knock, rich knock, that ignites the excess fuel in the ringland and POP! Out of personal curiosity and having the correct equipment I've experimented with AFRs. There is a ton of non-Subaru data available to draw from, and to provide perspective. Despite it being a nervous trip at first, I found power, less knock, and a sweeter running engine with AFRs beyond what is touted as what Subarus "need." Further, by analysis of the OEM tune (this was all done with my '11 STi) what emerged was that SUBARU RUNS MUCH LEANER than people think... up until the highest loads where they choose more fuel, but only in places. It is important to qualify something here: Most tunes, including OTS Cobb tunes, have disabled the elaborate protections of the OEM tune. Enough said. Do your research. The point is that the OEM tune is FAR from rich.... but is much safer than most AM tunes. I'm attaching a pic of my last map's fueling to illustrate what I said about there being no set AFR. Every point on the table has a specific reason for being what it is, and to a LARGE degree parallels the OEM model. This STi had a typical stg2... cai, dp, ebcs, etc... and VD showed 315-320ish whp. It buried a '10 SS from a 70 roll. This was with a per-gear boost and timing map, but that's irrelevant here. The per-gear is about driveability overall, where it would burn all four at will or run safely at 140+. This was my safe tune, BTW. Some may say, but this is an STi. What's that got to do with my LGT. Trust me, everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecBlitzed Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 14.7 lbs square inch atmospheric pressure at sea level. That's all sorry I'am going to stay out of this and read your knowledges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 14.7 is Earth's atmospheric pressure pushing against everything at sea level. So that beef on the grill. Sizzle sizzle. Clean burning 14.7AF. Err, what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudeondacouch Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 14.7 is Earth's atmospheric pressure pushing against everything at sea level.... I'am sure someone with chime in and tell me how stupid I am. I'am sure we already did... 6 months ago... http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/air-fuel-ratios-and-you-equiptment-options-opinions-196947.html?p=4426493#post4426493 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I'am sure we already did... 6 months ago... http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/air-fuel-ratios-and-you-equiptment-options-opinions-196947.html?p=4426493#post4426493 , thanks for that... I was going to call him out on that but gave him a chance to take his words back, but now it seems he made the same mistake twice after being corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryo Posted December 15, 2013 Author Share Posted December 15, 2013 Wow, glad that didn't get out of hand like last time. Amazing how much incorrect information is floating around out there. Dave [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Providing unmatched customer service and a Premium level of Dyno/E-tuning to the Community cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com facebook.com/cryotuneperformance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryo Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 bump to make more available for those looking for a good read. Dave [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Providing unmatched customer service and a Premium level of Dyno/E-tuning to the Community cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com facebook.com/cryotuneperformance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryo Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 bump for helping others out. Dave [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Providing unmatched customer service and a Premium level of Dyno/E-tuning to the Community cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com facebook.com/cryotuneperformance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryo Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 I am trying to put something cool together and was hoping any customer tuned by Cryotune Performance could help out. I would like to get the nicest picture you have of your car sent to Cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com. I Know some of you have sent pic's already so that's not needed unless you have an updated picture that looks more professional or a better back drop. These could include pictures on the road/dyno/mountains/park/ etc. Thanks and hope to get quite a few together Dave [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Providing unmatched customer service and a Premium level of Dyno/E-tuning to the Community cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com facebook.com/cryotuneperformance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryo Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 Bump for ease of reading for the new people. Dave [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Providing unmatched customer service and a Premium level of Dyno/E-tuning to the Community cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com facebook.com/cryotuneperformance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONDOLO Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Man this is a bit overwhelming but i do understand the general concept. so my girlfriend got me a downpipe for my birthday but it was one without a WBO2 sensor it only had the rear O2 sensor. so after doing my research i have decided to exchange it for a downpipe with the WBO2. So my question is would it be smarter to buy a gauge (im looking at the prosport JDM one from fastwrx.com) or can i just use the one on my Cobb V3 AP. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryo Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 DonDolo - The AP monitors the factory upstream sensor which is not accurate in boosted situations. You would want to install a true wideband afr sensor and guage to get accurate readings. Dave [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Providing unmatched customer service and a Premium level of Dyno/E-tuning to the Community cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com facebook.com/cryotuneperformance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONDOLO Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Oh ok thank you. I really appreciate it. That's very helpful. I'll be looking at a couple I've seen in this thread and comparing them to my first choice which is the prosport.. Are there any other gauges that I may need that the AP won't accurately measure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryo Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 bump up to the top for those needing this easily accessible. Dave [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Providing unmatched customer service and a Premium level of Dyno/E-tuning to the Community cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com facebook.com/cryotuneperformance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streetlegal Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 bump up to the top for those needing this easily accessible. Dave Dave what wideband would you recommend between the Innovate MTX-L and the AEM UEGO? Only comparisons I ever see are the LC-1 or 2 to the UEGO. I will be data logging via Cobb AP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryo Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 You will have to use ATR to log the wideband into the same data stream as the rest of the data. The aem uego works well with ATR and so does the LC1 and 2. The MTX does not cooperate with ATR if I'm not mistaken. If you are doing a aftermarket fueling tune with us we have methods to make just about any setup work but sometimes it requires a separate log with the wideband software but still possible. PM me for any details and such as I'm always happy to help answer questions and get you going. Dave [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Providing unmatched customer service and a Premium level of Dyno/E-tuning to the Community cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com facebook.com/cryotuneperformance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryo Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 Bump to the top for customers in need! Thanks Dave [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Providing unmatched customer service and a Premium level of Dyno/E-tuning to the Community cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com facebook.com/cryotuneperformance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryo Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 Glad this is still helping out, post up your questions if you have any Dave [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Providing unmatched customer service and a Premium level of Dyno/E-tuning to the Community cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com facebook.com/cryotuneperformance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryo Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 Here's to hoping cobb releases their new additions (flex fuel release) to the Legacy GT ECU which makes it possible to log your wideband via your AP and a additional 0-5v reference. This is not new using the TGV source if they have been deleted but this new addition to the software allows us to use a dummy right signal to send to the left and rob the left for our own use so they don't even have to be deleted. We can also do a ton of new stuff like monitor Wall wetting, fuel pressure *with a proper sensor*, fuel pressure differential etc.... THIS IS NOT RELEASED FOR the LGT ECU but even if your not interested in Flex Fuel but this interests you please send cobb an email and chime in here http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/official-interest-cobb-flex-fuel-legacy-gt-platform-please-speak-248347.html letting them know you would like the flex fuel options for the LGT as well as the new options that came with the most recent release of their software since its MUCH more than just Flex fuel at this point. Dave [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Providing unmatched customer service and a Premium level of Dyno/E-tuning to the Community cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com facebook.com/cryotuneperformance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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