silentguy Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Update. Something is wrong with electrical. Possibly wiring harness or sensors. I have verified fuel pump and fuel pressure. There is fuel, but it gets cut off by the computer. There is a Check Engine Light, but no codes are given. Car will start with Starter fluid in Intake, but dies after that. Need to trouble shoot all the sensors back to the computer. Timing is verified as good multiple times. Any advice appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 You lined up the hash mark and not the arrow on the crank pulley right? I'd say you've got an unplugged sensor somewhere or maybe a pin got bent on one of the main harness connectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentguy Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Yes, I did line up the hash mark and not the arrow. I put it in the safe factory service position, not TDC. I think you are right about the sensor or wiring. The wiring harness was a mess. I even undid the intake manifold and all the connectors a 2nd time, and inspected and tried to clean. I think theres a broken wire somewhere, thats not visible, and I need to test with multimeter every sensor back to the ECU. I am dreading that... Car has been out of service for 3 weeks now. Had to rent a car for the wife. She is not happy. However I cant afford $3000 plus to pay a shop for this. Thanks for your suggestions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentguy Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Some other updates. I verified fuel pressure as 40 PSI. Also I connected the 2 green test connectors under the dash, and hear lots of solenoids clicking, and the fuel pump whirring, and the return fuel splashing in the tank, and the CEL flashing. After this test mode, I disconnected the 2 green connectors. I still get at CEL that stays on though after I turn the ignition on. What bothers me is the CEL, with no code. Before all this work, there were no CEL's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentguy Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Another thought I had. The valve lifters fell out when doing the head. I put them back, but maybe they werent matched up correctly. Maybe I need to pull the rocker panel, and check valve clearances. The engine does start with starter fluid. Under what conditions does the ECU shut off fuel ? I am waiting on the new cam sensor. It is supposed to arrive today. Also going to go back in to timing belt and replace one of the idler pulleys and the geared idler pulley. They both had bearings which sounded a bit too loud for my taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentguy Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 And some other ideas. There is no alarm system, just the factory automatic lock wireless system. The factory automatic lock wireless system doesnt have a starter kill or any other kill circuitry. There used to be an aftermarket alarm system, but that was removed years ago. I dont think it had a fuel cut off. Is fuel cut off common on Alarm systems ? Keep in mind everything was working fine prior to this, so it's most likely something introduced by this job... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Another thought I had. The valve lifters fell out when doing the head. I put them back, but maybe they werent matched up correctly. Maybe I need to pull the rocker panel, and check valve clearances. The engine does start with starter fluid. Under what conditions does the ECU shut off fuel ? I am waiting on the new cam sensor. It is supposed to arrive today. Also going to go back in to timing belt and replace one of the idler pulleys and the geared idler pulley. They both had bearings which sounded a bit too loud for my taste. I highly recommend you replace all of the idler pulleys, the tensioner and water pump if you haven't already. -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 There may be a small button under the dash. Mine has it and when I pull the battery I have to push it to keep the parking lights from flashing but I can still start the car. I would think the engine does not fire a spark without a cam and crank signal but maybe it does and just keeps the injectors off. Would have to read through the fsm. Speaking of fuel, maybe you just have the feed and return mixed up? or not, just noticed the part where it is returning to the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelwatts Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I just learned from page 1 that I am apparently gonna have a good amount of nerve damage. I'm a native of South Carolina. I am a dying breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentguy Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Depends on how much brake cleaner/carb cleaner you use. I would really use heavy duty PVC gloves. Latex does not stop the solvents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentguy Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 There may be a small button under the dash. Mine has it and when I pull the battery I have to push it to keep the parking lights from flashing but I can still start the car. I would think the engine does not fire a spark without a cam and crank signal but maybe it does and just keeps the injectors off. Would have to read through the fsm. Speaking of fuel, maybe you just have the feed and return mixed up? or not, just noticed the part where it is returning to the tank. I labeled when I removed, but that doesnt mean I didnt screw it up. The larger fuel line out of the Fuel Filter I have going to the top intake manifold tube. I take it that is the FEED. The others I had labeled left and right. One is for evap gases, and there was no fluid in that one. The other I think is the RETURN fuel line. Can't remember which is which right now. On the firewall one goes to a metal tube, which I think is the RETURN fuel line. Ill try and take a picture of it tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentguy Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 I highly recommend you replace all of the idler pulleys, the tensioner and water pump if you haven't already. I'm replacing the lower left idler pulley and the geared idler pulley today. I have a water pump, but didnt install it, as the one in there is brand new looking subaru OEM, and the impeller appears to be smooth, and no leaks. Tensioner also looked brand new with no leaks in the hydraulics, so I didnt replace that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelwatts Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Depends on how much brake cleaner/carb cleaner you use. I would really use heavy duty PVC gloves. Latex does not stop the solvents. I am an 11 year dealer tech. We use brake clean like water. I currently don't have any nerve damage but I'm not counting it out. Anywho, back On topic I'm a native of South Carolina. I am a dying breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentguy Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 I am an 11 year dealer tech. We use brake clean like water. I currently don't have any nerve damage but I'm not counting it out. Anywho, back On topic There's some studies done on automotive professionals. You dont want to bathe your hands in the stuff. Longterm overexposure is not good. Definitely don't let it get on your skin, and make sure there is good ventilation in your workplace. Contact OSHA Carb cleaner which has hexane, is a lot worse. Some of the automotive solvents are banned in Calif. but not in my state. You can still get Chlorinated Brake Cleaner here, and I just saw some Electronics Cleaner at NAPA that has tetra-chloroethylene All nasty stuff. Not to mention gasoline, which is a carcinogen. With all these solvents, it's crazy that we work on cars. I have found Simple Green and this biogradeable degreaser work almost as well. There are some shops that are using them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentguy Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 The saga continues.... New Cam Position Sensor installed --- still doesnt start Installed new toothed Idler pulley, new left idler pulley, redid timing again -- still doesnt start I have the new knock sensor, but will have to remove the intake manifold to install it. I'm waiting on a Noid light test kit to verify pulses are getting to the fuel injectors. I have verified that there is 12 volts to the fuel injectors. Still need to find time to test voltages from ECU/PCM to all the sensors. Maybe it would be cheaper just to buy a new junkyard wiring harness than to debug all the connectors .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentguy Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 Got some pics of the fuel lines. Will post tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentguy Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 Started !!! Somehow fuel lines got mixed up, even though they were labelled. I think in troubleshooting the problems I swapped them, and forgot to put them back. Engine Check light went away. So Engine Check light comes on for wrong fuel lines. Maybe it's fuel pressure. Thanks for people helping me. Car ran fine for 20 minutes. Lots of white smoke to clear out, from the oil on the engine surfaces and in the engine from the head gasket job. It's running fine now. I will test drive tomorrow it's late here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentguy Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 http://i48.tinypic.com/9kc6bt.jpg Here overall view of fuel lines. Intake manifold at top of pic Fuel filter in middle of pic Firewall at right of pic. I will post 2 more pics, showing detail at intake manifold, and at firewall http://legacygt.com/forums/%3Ca%20href=%22http://tinypic.com?ref=9kc6bt%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i48.tinypic.com/9kc6bt.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Image%20and%20video%20hosting%20by%20TinyPic%22%3E%3C/a%3Ehttp://legacygt.com/forums/http://i48.tinypic.com/9kc6bt.jpghttp://tinypic.com/r/9kc6bt/6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentguy Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 http://i50.tinypic.com/11v1rmv.jpg These are the 3 fuel lines at the intake manifold. The MIDDLE tube, or the highest tube comes from the OUT of the Fuel Filter. The LEFT tube, or lowest tube, goes to the BLUE colored tube at the firewall. The RIGHT Tube, or tube closest to windshield, goes to the white/grey colored tube at the firewall. Sorry if my terminology is wrong, maybe someone else has a better way to describe the tubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentguy Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 http://i48.tinypic.com/o5t9c0.jpg These are the 3 fuel lines at the firewall, far right of this pic. Black tube goes to the IN of the Fuel Filter Blue Tube goes to the LEFT/LOWER tube at the Intake Manifold Grey/White Tube goes to the Right/Closest to windshield tube at the Intake Manifold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentguy Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 Caveat, this is on my 1998 Legacy GT. Not sure if everyone has this same color coding of the tubes. The colors are just rubber sleeves overlayed on the metal tubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 That looks like the correct orientation to me. -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentguy Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 Yes, its correct orientation in the pics. I had it wrong before. I added some more pics earlier in the thread on page 1 as I have time now that Ive solved the no start problem. This was my first time doing a head gasket job. It's not easy, but not impossible. I had to do a lot of research, and it took me 3 weeks total. 1 weekend for the head gaskets, and 2 weekends to debug my no start problem. I'd do it again, as it will be easier 2nd time around, but I really hope to never have to do one of these jobs again, at least not this year, and not on this car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I will agree it is not the easiest job. But having done multiple headgasket jobs on subarus now it is not nearly as bad. Pulling the motor is what tents to cause the most issues for people because of getting things back together correctly, like you see now lol. Mechanically as long as you deck the heads, use good gaskets and follow the directions it is pretty hard to mess it up. Gald to see you found the issue and hope you enjoy your subaru for a while to come. -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentguy Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Im glad to learn some new skills get some new tools and save a lot of money I do think it will be easier next time I got an Acura Integra GSR which needs timing belt and clutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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