I Donated thefultonhow Posted September 12, 2012 I Donated Share Posted September 12, 2012 Some *potentially* bad news. Was talking to Ryan at FBP about parts availability and he informed me the 07+ OEM SMFW *may not* fit my 05 LGT due to its early build date (02/2005, he used VIN to verify). They had issues in the past (details unknown at this point) but if it does not fit I can't return it Did any of you guys hear of fitment issues for 07+ SMFW on 05-06 LGTs ? I wonder if FBP got hosed by people trying to by smart. Damn. The build date on my 05 was 10/2004. The SMFW worked fine. The guy at FBP doesn't know what he's talking about. it's not new there's a thread about this push/pull type of clutch I have a sep/04 build date... =.= Why would they switch from pull to push for 10/2004, then back to pull for 2/2005, then back to push again? Doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Motion Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I don't know the exact detail, there is a thread on here somewhere talking about pull/push type of clutch m sprank said he worked on a few LGT with the older/2.5rs style (push?) clutch on the LGT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 +1. Please elaborate compsurge. I'd be interested to read your feedback. I like a stiff clutch pedal The FX300, when broken in, is extremely easy to drive. I can just do clutch dumps in all gears (at light to medium throttle) for a smooth shift. I am going to see about adjusting my pedal - my engagement is near the top of the pedal throw off the floor. FX300 / OEM WRX SMFW / TSK3 is my setup My brother has a ACT HDSS / OEM WRX SMFW / TSK3. His pedal is stiff, but you get a lot more feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted September 12, 2012 I Donated Share Posted September 12, 2012 I don't know the exact detail, there is a thread on here somewhere talking about pull/push type of clutch m sprank said he worked on a few LGT with the older/2.5rs style (push?) clutch on the LGT My stock clutch and the 06 WRX SMFW one were both push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 I don't know the exact detail, there is a thread on here somewhere talking about pull/push type of clutch m sprank said he worked on a few LGT with the older/2.5rs style (push?) clutch on the LGT Are you talking about this thread ? http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/flywheel-problem-please-help-185614.html I guess I will have to ask msprank about this. Is there any way to tell pull vs push clutch without taking it all apart ? I remember looking at the fork top when I pulled the IC to flush the clutch fluid, but whether it is pull or push is hard for me to say at this point. Last thing I want to happen is car with new fw + tsk kit + clutch disc + pressure plate not get into gear. That would suck enormously. 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 I like a stiff clutch pedal The FX300, when broken in, is extremely easy to drive. I can just do clutch dumps in all gears (at light to medium throttle) for a smooth shift. I am going to see about adjusting my pedal - my engagement is near the top of the pedal throw off the floor. FX300 / OEM WRX SMFW / TSK3 is my setup My brother has a ACT HDSS / OEM WRX SMFW / TSK3. His pedal is stiff, but you get a lot more feedback. That's what I am shooting for at the moment. I really like the feedback on the clutch but anything should be better than OEM DMFW for that I am getting to a point in life when I really do not like stiff pedals. When I got stuck in the morning traffic between Providence and Boston last year for 2 hours after a trailer flipped over and blocked 3 lanes out of 4 my left knee hurt for about a month after. 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Motion Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 There are at least 300 and as many as 3000 or more early 2005 (2004 build) LGT's out there with 2.5RS clutches. Push type. We have seen 2 in the last year at our shop and assisted customers and other shops with at least 3 more. Subaru says it did not happen. But their Master Mechanics admit it did and they too have seen the cars. Subaru had a replacement fork that allowed users to just convert the fork. Alas, it has been discontinued. Only way now is a complete retrofit or buy the same clutch that same in the car. When we sell a clutch to an early 05, we try to always verify the slave cylinder position to make sure it is a pull. Subaru can not verify by vin, we have tried. http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3747674&postcount=7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3747674&postcount=7 that's great . How about OBXTs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I had a thought about the stiff pedal........why not use a clutch master with a larger piston or a slave with a smaller piston? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 In it's current state it is not really a big problem, except for extreme cases of 2 hours stop & go traffic, which happen very rarely and would cause me grief regardless of how soft the clutch would be. I am mostly worried about getting a clutch pedal too stiff compared to current one after the swap. 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 Tonight I will try to take off the TMIC and snap a picture of slave clutch cylinder and fork to figure out of mine is pull or push type clutch. 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I'm almost positive it is a pull type IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 Well here is the picture and according to the thread here http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/push-type-vs-pull-type-clutch-179692.html it is in fact a push type clutch. So what does this mean ? In that thread thefultonhow says his is a pull type clutch (bd 10/2004) yet he runs SMFW with FX300. Ryan from FBP said Clutch Master's lightweight SMFW works regardless; he also said they only had one or two customers report problems with early build LGTs and OEM single-mass flywheels. I wonder if those customers had some other issues during the install - is it possible to put new fw, clutch disk and pressure plate in and have no clutch engagement ? At least I bled clutch slave again. [url=http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/push-type-vs-pull-type-clutch-179692.html][/url] 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Well put my HD-SS ACT in yesterday. WRX flywheel. Everything went perfect and pedal pressure is better than the Spec clutch I just took out. So you should be all set with the WRX flywheel my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Thanks for the update Paul. I decided to bite the bullet and go with WRX flywheel, sure is nice to know it worked on your car 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 Minor update: Got the parts last night , OEM WRX SMFW and CM FX300, and TSK3 kit. I will be replacing front axle shafts seals. Should I also replace the main engine seal and possibly clutch fork once the tranny is off the car ? Car has 120K on it so I think the seal is about due. 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I'm on the don't replace rear main unless it is leaking bandwagon. For the front axle seals, don't forget the hubs twist off where the seal is. I wish I had known that before spending so much time trying to get the new ones in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 Ordered one just to have it handy when the tranny is unbolted. Don't want to have "duh" moment 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted October 3, 2012 I Donated Share Posted October 3, 2012 I don't think you ever said what the noise is. Is it just a whine, or other noises too? If the former, it could be the transfer shaft bearings. I had a loud whine on my 05 above 40 mph, replaced the transfer shaft bearings, and it went away. Interestingly, the new transfer shaft bearings were a revised design with smaller roller bearings and more of them, and a smaller diameter bearing holder and race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 I don't think you ever said what the noise is. Is it just a whine, or other noises too? If the former, it could be the transfer shaft bearings. I had a loud whine on my 05 above 40 mph, replaced the transfer shaft bearings, and it went away. Interestingly, the new transfer shaft bearings were a revised design with smaller roller bearings and more of them, and a smaller diameter bearing holder and race. Well the main source of noise is the TOB because it varies/goes away as I push the clutch pedal. Now that you mentioned the transfer shaft bearing I recall that I also have a whine that comes from somewhere behind front seats at speeds above 50-60, and it depends on speed and whether I let go of gas. I believe it appeared shortly after I installed GroupN tranny mounts. IDK if that's the transfer shaft bearing specifically but mine probably is worth replacing at the same time with clutch job. Do you have the part # ? 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted October 4, 2012 I Donated Share Posted October 4, 2012 My sound only occurred if I was on the throttle above 40 mph. If I lifted off or pushed in the clutch, it went away. I guess it only happened when there was load on the transfer shaft. I replaced all four bearings in the center diff/tailshaft case area, but unfortunately FBP doesn't keep the part numbers for past orders on file, and I think I threw away the sheet that had the part number printout from the dealer on it. Oddly, the dealer had all the bearings in stock, but they were $40 more than FBP for them ($170 vs. $130). In hindsight, the problem was probably just the roller bearings on the transfer shaft, not the ball bearing assemblies on the center diff and behind the center diff on the tailshaft casing, but it was worth replacing them all, since it was so difficult to get in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 My sound only occurred if I was on the throttle above 40 mph. If I lifted off or pushed in the clutch, it went away. I guess it only happened when there was load on the transfer shaft. That sounds like what I have except for I do not recall whether it goes away if I press the clutch. Definitely goes away if I lift of the gas. I will look into replacing the shaft bearing, diff I will leave alone for now. Thanks for info. 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted October 4, 2012 I Donated Share Posted October 4, 2012 It's quite a process. It's obviously easier to do when the trans is out of the car, but less total labor if you do it while the trans is still in (trans R&R plus tailshaft casing R&R, vs. just tailshaft casing R&R). You will need access to a hydraulic press to get the bearings on and off the tailshaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 My sound only occurred if I was on the throttle above 40 mph. If I lifted off or pushed in the clutch, it went away. I guess it only happened when there was load on the transfer shaft. I replaced all four bearings in the center diff/tailshaft case area, but unfortunately FBP doesn't keep the part numbers for past orders on file, and I think I threw away the sheet that had the part number printout from the dealer on it. Oddly, the dealer had all the bearings in stock, but they were $40 more than FBP for them ($170 vs. $130). In hindsight, the problem was probably just the roller bearings on the transfer shaft, not the ball bearing assemblies on the center diff and behind the center diff on the tailshaft casing, but it was worth replacing them all, since it was so difficult to get in there. I have the part numbers (PM me - I'll get them when I get home). You can find them on opposedforces as well, but that's blocked at work. Also, based on your description SubOperator, that's exactly what the on-throttle whine is. It's just a maintenance component inherent to the 5MT, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted October 4, 2012 I Donated Share Posted October 4, 2012 I have the part numbers (PM me - I'll get them when I get home) P.S. Thanks to compsurge for alerting me to the cause of the problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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