Whitestar Pilot Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Legacy sales are up because the word is getting out. You get way more bang for the buck with it than other performance sedans IN IT'S CLASS. I don't know about Mercedes drivers being swayed, but I was at the Mazda dealership today (pricing the Mazda3) and noticed a Mazda 6 sports sedan priced at $28K!! Dollar for dollar, the Legacy is a superior buy to the Mazda 6, but Mazda is a more mainstream brand. I would wager that Legacy sales are up because they are drawing from prospective Accord V-6 and Mazda 6 buyers. In fact, if I were to draw up the next Legacy television commercial, I'd show it smoking the previously mentioned sedans in a drag race. Then have the commentator say something like... "If you're going to sacrifice gas mileage for performance, don't waste your time with inferior competition. Buy the 4-cylinder Accord, or step up to real performance, at an affordable price." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Yes indeed... One thing we can't go wrong, they are positioning the LGT in for more experienced buyers, and not only the ones looking for pure performance, that been said, we don't have cloth in the LGT anymore, SOA is really trying to push this car up to the ladder in order to attract european luxury/performance consumers where before you only had 2 options: BMW and AUDI... And it's working, just look in this forum. a lot of us had BMW's, Audi's, and other Germand performance oriented cars and switched over to the LGT? Why? Price is one thing, performance another and a certain level of luxury for sure... The rule of thumb: SOA will market the LGT for an older crowd, more luxury oriented but not sacrificing performance (Mercedes, Jaguar, SAAB), and the WRX for a younger crowd, mostly looking for perforamance, instead of the competition, Mitsubishi, Honda, and etc... :-) Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reg Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I don't know about Mercedes drivers being swayed, My last car was a mercedes. I was swayed. I was looking at BMW, Infiniti, and Volvo. One test drive and I fell in love with the GT. Oh, and I am also an old fart, 42. I drive a 5MT unlimited stage 2. I joined the local subaru club, which is basically a bunch of 20-somethings in heavily modded wrx's. I enjoy leaving them far behind when we go hammer down on back roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 37yo, LGT wagon with A MANUAL TRANSMISSION. Subaru should thank this board. If I hadn't read that the LGT wagon with manual was gone for '06, I probably never would have bought a Subaru. Oh, and I'm a former Audi owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 37yo, LGT wagon with A MANUAL TRANSMISSION. Way to go... I have a red Garnet LGT Wagon LTD MANUAL TRANSMISSION I am also a former Audi S4 owner, whilst the S4 is an awesome machine, the low gravity center b/c of this little boxster engine, Subaru Symmetrical AWD, and the luxury package, I didn't think twice to buy my Subie... Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Yes indeed... One thing we can't go wrong, they are positioning the LGT in for more experienced buyers, and not only the ones looking for pure performance, that been said, we don't have cloth in the LGT anymore, SOA is really trying to push this car up to the ladder in order to attract european luxury/performance consumers where before you only had 2 options: BMW and AUDI... And it's working, just look in this forum. a lot of us had BMW's, Audi's, and other Germand performance oriented cars and switched over to the LGT? Why? Price is one thing, performance another and a certain level of luxury for sure... Another big reason is reliability. The LGT competes with Audi and BMW because it's a nice enough design that people who had been driving Audis and BMW's will look at it. It's not goofy looking and the interior is decent. They then realize it performs well and they won't have nearly as many reliability problems, so they buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynekranzler Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Speaking of old farts, I'm 54 and picked up my RB GTL 5MT three weeks ago. I'm thoroughly enjoying this car. This may be my midlife crisis car but before raising two kids and driving Explorers for 13 years I owned a number of performance cars, including a Datsun 240 and 260Z, Toyota Celica Supra, a BMW 2002 and going way back, a 1966 Pontiac 2+2 with a 421. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I'm 31 -- old enough to remember when Mach V was the "new" DSM vendor ROFL. And oh yea, before I pass-out from laughing, +1. Or is that -1 ? since I'm only 30 ? Anyway.... 30, 5MT. -A <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthworm Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Just looking at the percentage of the sales increase doesn't really mean we'll see a lot more on the road. A big percentage increase of a small number is a slightly less smaller number. Distribute 90,000 legacys over the entire nation and you'll still only see one or two a month in populated areas. Which is OK by me! I'd rather be one on the road instead of many - I see soooo many Camrys it's ridiculous! Once I put my L7 emblems on no one will have a clue what I'm driving! Oh, 34 male 5MT by the way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKB_SATX Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I'm 39 with a 5MT LGT wagon. If Subaru doesn't get their act together about the 5MT turbo wagons, though, this will be my last Subaru. My 50-lb Bull Terrier's kennel will NOT fit in a sedan, and I will NOT drive a slushbox. I just hope I get lots of years of full-boost fun before I have to go back to VW/Audi to get a fun, well-designed wagon/hatch with a manual transmission. I'll be saving up for the higher maintenance costs. *sigh* DKB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I can see Merc C-class buyers getting swayed by the Legacy, as well as Audi A4, BWM 3-series, Volvo S40 and S60, Saab 9-3, You name the mid-size sedan. Even the G35, TSX, and IS300. I agree that dollar for dollar, the Legacy flat drops the Mazda 6, Accord, Camry SE, 500, or 300 non-hemi-C, and pretty much everything from the General. However, if subaru mucks this up, with some of their boneheaded moves, they are going to see their Legacy GT sales dry up again. Limiting color choices, dropping manual transmissions from cars with turbochargers, and offering few amenities is going to come home to roost, and ultimately limit the Legacy's sales potential. If they are doing that to save the WRX, as some have rumored, or for any other reason, then they have no one to blame for their future sales losses but themselves. I am sure they'll see it just that way, too. (not.) I have mentioned before that I may not be able to help Subaru's 2006 sales figures, as I otherwise would have liked to do. A used 2005 in this ~28yo performance enthusiast's garage doesn't help Subaru's bottom line any more, or lower their demographic. If Subaru wants to really succeed, here's what I suggest. First and foremost, go back to offering black or taupe interiors with any exterior color. This was a very stupid step backwards, and needs to be rectified. If SOA wants a premium car at a high margin, offer the 3.0R engine with the 5EAT-Sport Shift only in the Legacy bodystyles, with similar specs to the Outback VDC, with NAV standard. All profit, all fluff for the people who want a plush highway cruiser without the OB ride height. Offer it as a Sedan or Wagon, don't cheap out just because the Outback is also a wagon. Just don't subject the 2.5 GT to the plush-only role. The GT deserves more than that. Don't drop the manual transmission for ANY of the GT models, in fact, I suggest adding a 6MT VTD transmission as a cost option. Don't drop the cloth interior/no-moonroof model. Make it special order, or whatever, but make it available. Even if it is a deduction option. Even if it becomes a standard GT minus the Leather/moonroof, and dealer order only... whatever, as long as people can buy it. Call it ClubSport or something to denote the de-option nature, and emphasize performance gain through less weight, wagons included. Don't limit the Spec B to 400 units. Produce the 400 Spec Bs in Titanium/Red Leather, THEN make Spec B an option package for the 18" wheels and alu-arms/swaybars/Bilsteins/STi springs suspension only, maybe with the 6MT VTD transmission standard, and a 5EAT-Sport Shift (with a more aggressive program) as an option. People should be able to add this to any GT, even a de-optioned "ClubSport," making it a Spec C, or something. Dissasociate NAV from bodystyle, package or transmission choice. NAV should be a straight price option on ANY Legacy GT. HIDs should be included that way, too. Option x at price y. Let it be standard on the fluffier 3.0R models. Add at least one bold color to the lineup. My preference is WR Blue, even if it has to be chained to the Spec B package to get it. Otherwise, a red like Solid Red or San Remo Red would also do nicely. Add a Satelite Receiver/MP3 player input to the #$%^ non-replaceable Stereo!!! Come on, this is just plainly obvious and decent, for denying people an upgrade option. Or offer the McIntosh upgrade in the US, with the input included... Either way. Revise the OEM tires, brake lines, and pads, to avoid bad impressions from buyers and the automotive press of the Legacy's braking and bad-weather ability. Even if the tires have to go to Bridgestone G009s, or anything besides the RE92. Adequate isn't good enough. Adequate is for civics, not a performance oriented near-lux sedan and wagon, since that is where Subie wants to take this. Add the stylish 3-dial ACC from the Tribeca to the Legacy's center console, and perhaps revise the console cupholder to the Tribeca's cool one, as well, for family resemblance sake, and to keep people talking about the nice new Subaru interiors. Telescoping wheel, memory settings for the Mirrors and Seats might be good too. HUD would be welcome, as well, but isn't a huge thing. Next, Add an STi model, and a coupe bodystyle to the line. ...Step 10: Profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I hope I don't sound too cynical, but I don't agree that saab and Merc shoppers will even consider the subaru, perhaps even the volvo and many bmw buyers. To many (most) of these people, the badge is a major factor in the purchase. Look at the increase in bmw sales over the last 10 years, and what percentage fo that increase is auto transmissions (my guess is > 100%). People buy these cars for the snob factor, and especially Saab - what compelling reason is there to buy a saab, ANY saab??? There is nothing about these cars that isn't bettered by multiple other cars in the market. They're just standard GM transportation appliances; Ford's done much better (less) with Volvo. Anyway, I bought an early A4 (still have it; been lucky with maintenance), adn this website is very very similar to the early A4.org. All the cool ppl on the board had MT cars (JK!), and there were a lot of posts about how the car was underrated and should be more popular than it is/was. Over time, the Legacy is going to do very well; the performance oriented ppl always are on the forefront, adn the ppl chasing image will follow after a while as the car establishes its "street cred" One thing Subaru MUST do, though, is continue to offer cars that enthusiasts desire. One of the worst combos for an enthusiast is an auto trans with a turbo motor - they must continue to offer the MANUAL to establish the performance image. SOA needs to do two other things, both very important to go head to head with the Germans: (1) Offer a sport package with firmer settings, flatter cornering, better turn in, and oh, yea, TIRES, (2) Find a way to offer a smaller, more sporting Legacy coupe. If they can do these things, then the company I've alwasy considered the BMW of Japan (great handling cars for the money) will compete toe to toe with the germans in the entry sport lux segment. Then they can start making an A6/5-series/Lexus GS competitor. Ok, putting down my bong now. =) I can see Merc C-class buyers getting swayed by the Legacy, as well as Audi A4, BWM 3-series, Volvo S40 and S60, Saab 9-3, You name the mid-size sedan. Even the G35, TSX, and IS300. I agree that dollar for dollar, the Legacy flat drops the Mazda 6, Accord, Camry SE, 500, or 300 non-hemi-C, and pretty much everything from the General. However, if subaru mucks this up, with some of their boneheaded moves, they are going to see their Legacy GT sales dry up again. Limiting color choices, dropping manual transmissions from cars with turbochargers, and offering few amenities is going to come home to roost, and ultimately limit the Legacy's sales potential. If they are doing that to save the WRX, as some have rumored, or for any other reason, then they have no one to blame for their future sales losses but themselves. I am sure they'll see it just that way, too. (not.) I have mentioned before that I may not be able to help Subaru's 2006 sales figures, as I otherwise would have liked to do. A used 2005 in this ~28yo performance enthusiast's garage doesn't help Subaru's bottom line any more, or lower their demographic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy409 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Male 30 LGT LTD...Guess we are the exception to the norm. =) yeah. i'm sure all those old guys dont log onto forums to chat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 At this point, Audi competes directly with MB and BMW yet there are a number of former Audi owners on this board. Of course, both Audi and Subaru appeal to certain buyers who really want AWD so maybe that's part of it. Anyway, I live in an area of MA where lots of people drive European imports yet you see Outbacks in a lot of the same driveways. I think you're largely right but Subaru does appeal to some of these people and, if they play their cards right, could increase that appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Damn, I broke into "contributing V.P." at over 1000 posts, with that rant! YEAH, Buddy! That should tell ya how many times I rail on this stuff! I know I am a long-winded son-of-a-gun... Just can't seem to help it! I do agree with tantal about the Coupe bodystyle deal, as I added to my post after he posted. I wouldn't mind a decent-sized grand-touring coupe SVX replacement directly on the Legacy platform, and then a smaller, sleeker, and lighter '07 2.5RS Turbo / WRX sport coupe revival on the smaller impreza platform, when it goes to a shortened legacy chassis anyway. I have mentioned that before... You know what they say, two coupes are better than one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 You know what they say, two coupes are better than one! Yea, for me, there is no impreza or wrx; I'm just not interested in the car in any way due to its looks and the fact that it's not anywhere near the luxury segment. I would have considered the Saabaru 9-3x with the turbo, that was at least decent interior, but the exterior looks, while a significant improvement from the wrx, still were unacceptable to me. Between that and the $4k premium over the subaru, for what?, and Subaru/GM lost any chance for me to be interested in the impreza platform. Thus, my request for a Legacy coupe. Regarding the outback, it really amazes me how popular this vehicle is compared to the GT. I think outback buyers are not cross-shopping Audi, BMW, Volvo, Lexus, Acura sports sedans. I think Outback buyers are either looking at explorer,etc POS stuff or cross-shopping the A6 Allroad, the stupid bmw X5, and stuff like that. So, the outback is either the high end cheap SUV competitor or the low end luxury SUV-wannabe competetor. Etiher way, it's got no direct competetor, just like the GT (ok, the allroad is probably a direct competitor). Thing is, subarus have a high desirability factor when you think about reliability. All they need is the asthetic and performance desirability, which they finally have, and things will turn up. As long as they don't drop the ball. Well, thank god my '95 legacy wagon turned out to need $1k in rear brake work all of the sudden in early july rather than a few months from now, so that I pulled the trigger on my LGT ltd with a MT. Otherwise, I would not be a subaru owner next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I'm 39 with a 5MT LGT wagon. If Subaru doesn't get their act together about the 5MT turbo wagons, though, this will be my last Subaru. My 50-lb Bull Terrier's kennel will NOT fit in a sedan, and I will NOT drive a slushbox. I just hope I get lots of years of full-boost fun before I have to go back to VW/Audi to get a fun, well-designed wagon/hatch with a manual transmission. I'll be saving up for the higher maintenance costs. *sigh* DKB DKB: I wouldn't say it will be my last Subaru, but definitely not my next one if they don't put themselves together on this NO MORE WAGON 5MT CRAP!!!! Redd Garnet LGT Wagon LTD 5MT Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karamba Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I hope someone at SOA is getting the message loud and clear - bring back the LGT wagon with MANUAL TRANSMISSION! (pretty please with a cherry on top?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 . I would have considered the Saabaru 9-3x with the turbo, that was at least decent interior, but the exterior looks, while a significant improvement from the wrx, still were unacceptable to me. Between that and the $4k premium over the subaru, for what?, and Subaru/GM lost any chance for me to be interested in the impreza platform. I looked at that car as well, my fiancee bought one, really nice car, she paid 9K off MSRP, at that price, was a good deal, but to pay the premium for it, NEVER only stupids would do that anyway... ;-) Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Not sure if you have seen this thread, but worthy to check it out: http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/messageview.php?catid=18&threadid=463298&newest=1 http://69.20.109.212/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=8 http://saab92x.com/ Enjoy Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I, for one, hope that the 07 Impreza re-design infuses the small car line with similar dignified lines as the Legacy, when they inherit the Legacy's chassis. I am not saying it should be Legacy Junior. It should be a little more aggressive than that, and appeal to a bit younger crowd. Younger people don't shun good design, they just tend to accept not-so-good design more easily. Hence they like cars that you and I wonder why they are so popular, like the Hyundai Tiburon. A truly good looking Impreza line, with a small sport coupe, with the 2.5 Turbo, 6MT, AWD, and a decent price tag could do really, really well. Personally, I like the general idea and the silhouette of the Scion Tc. I really don't like it's FWD, and a few of th minor toyota details, such as the headlights. Subaru could do MUCH worse than make a really good 240hp turbo AWD alternative to the Tc, and call it the 2.5RS Turbo. I think fans of the GC8 coupe would jump at that! On the other hand, if they build a rip-off of the Golf or Civic hatchback, I'll be less impressed. Along with a coupe, I think the WRX and WRX STi sedan and wagon could do well with a bit of a maturity makeover from the Legacy finishing school. The '06 corporate face front end style even does a little bit of that, even though I still don't like the ovoid center grille, and not much behind the firewall has visually changed. If the Impreza sedan and wagon were to pick up a few cues from the Legacy sedan and wagon, I think it might be better for it. Like a more faired-in hood scoop, smoother bumper treatments, rakish headlights, and a sleeker upturned rear perspective. Perhaps straighter side glass lines, and a slightly wider stance, as well. The impreza wagon tail treatment would do well to learn from the Legacy wagon, especially in the tail lights... I think an impreza coupe with a new cleaner agressive look might change some of your minds. It certainly would not have to look like a coupe-ified version of the current car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Very nice input Iwannasportsedan I couldn't agree with you more... :-) Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 IWannaSportSedan, Rant on, rant on. I, for one, enjoy very much reading your rants. As you know from our previous encounters, we share very much the same outlook, and I find it refreshing and also much to my relief that SOMEONE out there - even a raving lunatic like yourself - shares my deep-seated feelings of the automotive industry. ---- Sorry for the hijack! -A <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I think if you really look at people who enjoy cars, mechanic, enthusiasts, always will prefer Manual Transmission, and canning Wagons with 5MT kinda sucks... Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franklin Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I think Subaru's statistics exclude highschool punks and those still living in their parents' basement. You trying to say something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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