eVoMotion Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 great overview. thanks for the writeup. Will be watching this. Picking up 05 OBXT tonight. Legacy coilovers in the mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Betsy has more common sense than Jon at the moment. Dude! You are nuts...listen to your woman! Glad you didn't hurt yourself more....she would be taking care of you this time. I am hearing more noise in my car....from the rear. Wonder if the Cusco braces tweaked stuff a bit too much. I am swapping out the AVO endlinks just in case...we'll see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03Indigo Posted July 14, 2005 Author Share Posted July 14, 2005 Yeah, Betsy came home at lunch and found me under the car...she was NOT pleased...but understood. She just wanted me to take care of myself. I have the Cusco's on the rear as well, and the bracing is fine. It does not really tweek that much anyway. The only think I can think of, outside of your standard loose bolt/nut...it that the retaining nut on the top of your set up is not tight enough. I had that happen on the MINI a while back, so I needed to pull it out and tighten the top had down, that solved my problem. Since you had to use your OEM top hats for your shocks/springs, you might want to check them as well, and make sure they are tight. Outside of that, make sure your bushing brackets and sub frame bolts around the sway bar area are all secured really well. Since you loosened up the sub frame to get the perrin bracing in there, that might be another issue. If it comes down to the AVO endlinks, make sure to let me know, I will junk those ASAP if it solves your issue. I am just glad that it was not my coilovers that were causing the issue. That would have been an expensive mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoDork Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Hey Guys, I've been following this thread and i just wanted to offer my setup/expericence... Currently i have the same cusco coilovers as 03Indigo with Cusco F&R swaybars with the AVO endlinks... When i first installed them, i noticed a repetative "Clunk" and finally narrowed that down to a loose nut on the AVO endlink, problem solved. i Recently have noticed at "LOUD" clunk on my passenger side, i can reproduce it when coming out of a driveway at a "severe" angle with the passenger side leading first...I've greased my bushing with Mobil One and everything!! This past weekend, I cleaned the swaybars off, regreased the bushings and swaybars, BUT added TEFLON tape to the swaybars...This stopped the loud "Clunk/POPING" coming from the passenger side... One thing different between 03Indigo & I is, I have a LGT wagon... I just want to give help in any way, and keep up with this thread... Keeping tabs, and hope you find out the problem!! -m- ~Sucka-Duck~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03Indigo Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 I re-did my front bushings as well, and even replaced them with new Perrin bushings, a second set. nothing changed. as far as I can tell, the end links are tight, but the passenger side was a bit loose, the part that attaches to the control arm. i am not sure if that bolt came loose over time, or was not tight to begin with. From everything I tried, the end link seem operational. maybe I should have switched them out for the OEM ones. Maybe if I am not too tired on Monday afternoon...(on call all weekend at the hospital), I can replace those and see if that makes a difference. I doubt it though...I really feel that it is a control arm, or A-arm depending on what you call it, bushing that has gone bad due to dimentinal changes. Tuesday can not get here soon enough. For now, the OBXT sits in the garage and the MINI is getting all the love this weekend....that and Betsy's Tacoma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03Indigo Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 BTW SnoDork...where did you get your tephlon tape? I have heard about some people using this, and if it solved your problem, and they can find nothing wrong with my bushings on Tuesday, I may need to look at every option.... thanks jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoDork Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 i got if from work, but it's not ordinary the ordinary teflon tape from the hardware store. i used some "heavy Duty" teflon tape made for industrial type plumbing & Oil and Gas fittings found in Refineries (Field of work i'm in....) I can get you the specifics tomorrow.... good luck! -m- ~Sucka-Duck~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03Indigo Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 Any info you can offer will be of help. You have been a huge help thus far...even when I first got he coilovers. I appreciated your feedback then cheers jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03Indigo Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!! I am still on the stock suspension to trouble shoot, the noise was still there, so that left the sway bar, AVO endlinks and the lower control arm bushings. Well, took off the passenger AVO end link, and that is where the problem was. It was tight, secure, but the upper bushing pivot, where it connects to the bar, well, when you move it, it clicks and grinds. The bottom was like that as well, but not as bad. So I went for a test drive...MUCH improved, but could still hear some grinding/popping. So off came the driver side AVO endlink. SAME thing...grinding and popping on both pivot bushings on the end link. They were set to the exact same length at the OEM Ones, which happened to be the shortest setting, all fittings were tight, etc. The passenger one was a bit loose on the bottom where it ties into the control arm, so that probably caused the increased rate of damage. But the driver side was secure and solid...but also shows signes of damage. When I drove the car with all the AVO end links off the car, problem solved. So....I am just gonna stick with the OEM ones, they are fine, and if Keefe can beat the crap out of them and they hold, well, that is what I am gonna do....and simply buy new ones of the OEM ones if the original ones have a problem. So, Coilovers, the Cusco Zero2 for the BP are fine. Perrin sway bars and bushings are fine. My problem was my adjustable end links from AVO. Still gonna have the car in on Tuesday for service and a look over, but I am gonna put my coilovers back in on Monday. YIPPIE!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil_O Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoDork Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 AMEN!...i'm happy for you...i'll be checking my endlinks this weekend just to be safe!... ~Sucka-Duck~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 <---- runs to swap stock endlinks back on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03Indigo Posted July 16, 2005 Author Share Posted July 16, 2005 I opened one up, you should see the fragments that dispersed on the garage floor. I did not sweet it up so I can capture a picture at some point this weekend. But right now, I am at the hospital working...so it is gonna have to wait until I have the free time to take a shot. Not a good thing. The car is so quiet now...makes me feel better. Wonder what happened to the end links that made them do this.....at least I had the OEM ones...whew Maybe it was something to do with the one looser nut on there, maybe it has more to do with the fact that I have the outback and lowered it, and the geometry change is too great for those end links...who knows. Right now, I am just elated that i could drive the car to work, and enjoy it once again. Almost 12 days without the car...that was rough. At least the MINI got some love... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewster Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Hey doesn't your OB seem jacked up and goofy looking with the stock suspension back in place. and glad you figured out the clunking prob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03Indigo Posted July 16, 2005 Author Share Posted July 16, 2005 yeah, it does look strange, but what a nice comfortable soft ride on the way to work, it was good for my back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03Indigo Posted July 18, 2005 Author Share Posted July 18, 2005 Follow up....I put the coilovers back in this morning after getting home from the hospital...I also removed the rear AVO endlinks while in there, and re-lubed the sway bar bushings...although there were fine when I took them off, decided to do it right since I had the car apart. As I took the rear AVO endlinks off, I noticed that the rubber bushing covers, ie-the boot, those were cracked all around the edge. They looked like they have been on the car for YEARS...and in fact, maybe 4 months and 3000 miles of fair weather driving. My front ones were the same ,but I did not notice that right off. the damaged one, the one that was in pieces...had a complete tear in it from a crack... The car is perfectly quiet, and there are NO rattles or clunks at all. This is the most quiet my car has been since i put this stuff on. The car was quiet before, but some of the typical coilover rattles I have experienced with other cars was there. Well now, they are all gone. This makes me soooo happy. I did change the front sway to the soft setting, and the rear sway to the middle setting. I also adjusted the Cusco coilover dampening to 2/5 in the rear and 1/5 in the front. The car is still as stiff as a rock, but a bit more comfortable over the smaller bumps...which is still a millions more rigid that the OEM OB suspension. I would say that right now, after such spirited test drive, one that almost made me sick to my stomach cuz I was taking the corners soooo fast and I am running on nearly 24 hours without sleep right now....that this set up is the most fun I have had in a car...EVER!!! I love my OBXT in dropped form Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewster Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Glad to hear your wagon is back to normal if not better than normal. Speaking of ride comfort and noises from the coilovers, I was wondering what tire pressures you're running? I realize we are running different tires but I find my ride and noise levels are acceptable @ the recommend tire pressure which I think is 32/30 for the oem tires. This weekend I boosted the pressures to 34/32 and I'm getting more clicking noises from my coilovers again and an increase in small impact feel. I didn't think an additional 2 lbs would make much of a difference but it is definitely noticeable. I guess I should mention that I get the noise on uneven, broken concrete slabs which seems to be prevalent here, but don't have the noise when I'm driving over uneven asphalt or at freeway speeds. I haven't noticed any indication of the tires rolling onto the sidewalls @ oem pressures. Just curious because it seems like a lot of the legacy owners here are running much higher tires pressures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03Indigo Posted July 18, 2005 Author Share Posted July 18, 2005 hmmmmm....did you change out your sway bar or end links. I know GP spent a lot of time getting things tight. I found that my noise, the smaller rattles, were soley caused by the endlinks or sway bushings, NOT the coilovers. You might want to check the sway and links and see if it is all tight and in proper working condition...and as SnoDork mentioned, make sure your bushings are well lubed. as for pressures, I am running 34/32. I don't hear the small rattles at all, but do feel a lot of feedback in car. Not as bad as my MINI that is on 40 series tires and at similar pressures. I think the combination of decent pressure, low profile, stiff side wall for performance and increased springrates and dampening of the coilovers cause just that...more road noise translated into the car. I hear the noise of the tires over the cracks in the roads, man holes, expansion joints, but that noise is way different than any rattle that I had heard as related to my suspenion issues I had...clunk or small rattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sduford Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 So what the verdict ont he AVO end links. Were yours defective? Did you talk to AVO? I just received my rear sway and a set of 4 end-links from them. Should I not bother using the end-links? Sylvain www.digitalfotographer.com - Audi Q5 Club - MB-GLK Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 My AVO endlinks were the source of my noise. I pulled them off yesterday after 6-7 months of use and my car is quiet again. I PM'ed Paul for info...relaying my experience and Jon's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03Indigo Posted July 19, 2005 Author Share Posted July 19, 2005 So what the verdict ont he AVO end links. Were yours defective? Did you talk to AVO? I just received my rear sway and a set of 4 end-links from them. Should I not bother using the end-links? Like Patagonian said, they were the source of my trouble...so I basically have trashed them, they are worthless in my opinion. You can try them, maybe since yours are newer they are better, but keep an eye on them, and the rubber seals, as I have already heard of several others that are having the similar issues and debating the change to stock or something else. For me, I will stay with stock, I see no reason they will have issues as Keefe is still on his, so why won't they? I guess this brings meaning to the old saying of "don't fix it if it ain't broke!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewster Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 I only have the jdm rear sway and am using the stock endlinks. Good to hear that you're not running extremely high tire pressures. I just wanted to see how high I could go before I noticed a deterioration of the ride comfort. I will drop my pressures back to where I had it and now increase my dampener settings until it's annoying rough. Just want to see for myself what the limits are in terms of tire pressures and dampener settings. My noise is really the tapping noise from the coilovers and isn't from the endlinks. Sorry for hijacking this thread, I'll stop now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eVoMotion Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Great info - thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Paul from AVO PM'ed me back and is sending me another set of rear links. Apparently, they made a running change in these and we might have early ones. There is no known issue with the older ones, but AVO stands behind their product. I suggest if you have an issue, let Paul know. They have been an A+ vendor in my experience and have ALWAYS done the right thing without needing to be asked to do so. Jon - I also let him know about your experience and SnoDork's. -Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoDork Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Thanks! PatagonianGT!!...i'll shoot Paul an email w/pictures... ~Sucka-Duck~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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