Dlonc Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 What a great sight, I have been reading all sorts of wonderful posts, but can not find a definite answer to my question. I have a 1997 Legacy GT Wagon with the 2.5 and 130k. The head gasket has failed to the inside on the number four cylinder. I have read all about the issue and its related repairs and history. I checked with a couple of shops and it is apparent that my only option is to fix it myself. I have enough mechanical aptitude to pull it off ( I hope) but the one question I have is, Does the motor have to come out to remove the heads? This seems extreme...but I dunno.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverGSX Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Can you do it with the engine in the car? Yes. Is it a lot easier to do it with the engine removed? Yes. Is the engine easy to remove? Yes. If you have an engine hoist already it's really not that bad. I pulled my motor to do the head gaskets etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDII Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 If the heads are warped and you put them back on you will be pulling the motor back out. Make sure you measure across the deck and send it off to be planed if needed. Should probably do a new thermostat, water pump and timing belt/tensioner while you have the motor out. Need forum help? Private Message legGTLT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 in order to do it in the car, you will need to undo 2 lower motor mounts and the ''dog bone'' up top on the fire wall and lift the engine from below to get the heads off. at that point there are only a few other thing needed to remove the engine. and i here there are more second failures for ''done in the car'' jobs, but i'm not sure. i would recommend doing it on a painted surface or sheet of vinyl to catch the drip, spills and mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 It would be next to impossible to do it in the car, especially the first time around... The cam wheels have to come off to remove the head, I ended buying a 900 ft/lb impact wrench to get those darn things off. Then beyond that the cams have to come out to remove the heads. You have to keep the lifter pucks in order or you'll have valve clearance issues, that's next to impossible with the heads sitting vertical in the car yet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSooby Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Finding an engine hoist is literally the hardest part about pulling our motors. I agree tho. Definitely do thermostat, water pump, timing belt, tensioner, and I'd do spark plugs too just because its not that expensive and its a pain to change them. These are all things that if they go.wrong you'll have to pull the motor again to fix. Might as well do it now so you don't have to do it again later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlonc Posted April 14, 2012 Author Share Posted April 14, 2012 Good to know..I was planning on doing timing belt, tstat, cam seals, water pump, and anything else I can touch while I am at it. The car was bought from an elderly couple with extensive maintenance records from shop that seems to have not actually done any of what was billed, so I was planning on hitting everything I could touch. Also I am working on a gravel driveway and have no hoist....I am however trying to find a nice spot to work on it and a hoist..lol. BUT if all of that proves futile, then it will be this car and I wrestling on a gravel driveway with the motor in it...good times await... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 And if you have a plastic baffle on the trans side of the engine, get the metal one and replace that, along with the crankshaft front and rear seals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlonc Posted April 14, 2012 Author Share Posted April 14, 2012 It would be next to impossible to do it in the car, especially the first time around... The cam wheels have to come off to remove the head, I ended buying a 900 ft/lb torque wrench to get those darn things off. Then beyond that the cams have to come out to remove the heads. You have to keep the lifter pucks in order or you'll have valve clearance issues, that's next to impossible with the heads sitting vertical in the car yet.... jezus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlonc Posted April 14, 2012 Author Share Posted April 14, 2012 I just put new plugs, wire, coil, fuel and air filters, belts, etc..trying to find a mysterious P0304 code that turned out to me a bit of coolant leaking into the combustion chamber...when all is said and done I will have a bunch in this car but it should go for another 100k at least...I hope... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I ended buying a 900 ft/lb torque wrench to get those darn things off.i don't know what a 900 ft lb torque wrench cost, but i would buy a $50 electric impact wrench from harbor freight. it will spin them right off. also works great on the exhaust manifold nuts, but be sure to sprat those with pblaster, a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 About $200, and mine must have been an exception, we tried every electric and air impact wrench we could find until getting the Northern Tool one, nothing moved them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 While you have the engine out, pull the oil pan off and reseal it. Also replace the RMS and the oil separator plate. Take your oil pump off and check all the screws for tightness and reseal it. If you can't get your cam sprockets off just take the heads to your local mechanic and he can get them off with his nice impact gun in a few seconds. Your life will also be easier if you get a $40 engine leveler which will allow you to adjust your block to get it off the transmission. Grease your alignment pins to get it to go back on smoothly. Remove your axles from the transmission spindles so you can get at the lower transmission bolts easier. Use lots of PB blaster all along the way. Spray bolts a day or two in advance. Get or borrow an engine hoist. Download and read the Subaru Factory Service Manual as it gives you a step by step engine removal process to follow. Replace everything that you can while the engine is out. (valve cover gaskets, check valve clearances, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 The heads don't come off without the cam wheels off. The timing belt covers are tied to the block and head and need to come off after the cam wheels unless you break them. Having worked on other cars, the design to remove the heads on Subarus is totally unnecessary. Definitely familiarize yourself with the lifter shims before removing the cam (which you have to do to get to the head bolts). Each shim is a different size and they're used for valve clearance. If those fall off and you don't know where they came from your job gets a lot harder. EDIT: These tips are for the EJ25D of that vintage, you might have the SOHC? If so, my advice may not be sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 The heads don't come off without the cam wheels off. The heads come off just fine with the cam wheels on. I took mine off that way. It was an EJ22T SOHC. Why wouldn't a DOHC be the same? edit: The rear cover behind the cam wheels can still be attached to the head when you remove it as far as I can tell from this diagram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 The timing covers (behind the cam wheel) are tied to both the head and the block. The only way to remove the covers is to remove the cam wheel. The head bolts are under the cam in several cases, so the cams have to be removed to even get to the head bolts. Believe me, I've done it. I can post screenshots of the Subaru service manual showing the same thing... the SOHC head is MUCH easier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 It's silly, but have a look... the head bolts are under the cams... Go back a few pages in the manual for "camshaft removal", first step is "remove the camshaft sprockets"... Believe me, I pulled my hair out for days trying to figure a way to remove them without removing the wheels. http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k62/dil222/head1.png http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k62/dil222/head2.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up. Makes me appreciate my non interference SOHCs even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDII Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Finding an engine hoist is literally the hardest part about pulling our motors. I agree tho. Definitely do thermostat, water pump, timing belt, tensioner, and I'd do spark plugs too just because its not that expensive and its a pain to change them. These are all things that if they go.wrong you'll have to pull the motor again to fix. Might as well do it now so you don't have to do it again later. probably a no-brainer = rear main seal. Might want to reseal the oilpan and check the oil pick up tube while you have the motor out. Need forum help? Private Message legGTLT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverGSX Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 i don't know what a 900 ft lb torque wrench cost, but i would buy a $50 electric impact wrench from harbor freight. it will spin them right off. also works great on the exhaust manifold nuts, but be sure to sprat those with pblaster, a lot. Good luck with an electric impact wrench. Heat and a 600+ ft/lb ingersoll rand gun couldn't take three of mine off. I ended up smashing the cam gears off with a hammer and having a machine shop remove the bolts from the cams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Electric impact guns might work. It's worth a try before you resort to more and more desperate measures. Mine was able to spin off one of the cam wheel bolts and the crank pulley bolt. It also was able to get off an axle nut that made me want to cry. It worked great for a lot of stubborn exhaust bolts. Plus you can use it to take off your lug nuts and save your back. I went with a $70 Kawasaki gun instead of the HF. I'm not saying the HF gun wouldn't have worked, but I didn't want to drive 10 more miles to HF. I just went to the closest auto parts store, PepBoys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Just make sure the engine is in right time before you throw the impact gun on or you'll have bent valves. The valves can contact the piston AND they can contact other valves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillboy Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 A torque wrench is not for loosening fasteners (mine specifically advises against this)...think about, why??? It is still ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Y'all making cam gears sound like a big deal. Use the old timing belt and a pair of vise grips and wrap the belt around the crank gear and the pulley to remove. Lock in place using vise grip to remove slack. Use hex socket on breaker bar to loosen cam pulley bolt. Save the timing belt as a tool or toss it. Don't bother with the rear main seal unless it is already leaking. Do replace cam seals and any other gaskets that are no longer pliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Slip of words, impact wrench... I wish the cam gears were that easy, I tried that as well.... I got one loose using that method... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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