lulzcow Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 They'd have to be engineered to produce a certain sound lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overspool Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 haha. You know what I mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Kenny- Essentially what you just told me, is that it's going to be more cost effective to get power gains out of an EL. Less time crunching numbers, less materials, and less shop time bending tubes. Don't get me wrong, I love the boxer rumble, but if I ever put headers on my legacy, I won't do UEL. Hell, if I ever change the headers from stock on any Subaru that I own, they'll be equal length. Also let's not forget, these are "ebay brand" headers. They're not engineered. They're created to sound cool and look shiny. Well, I wrote what I did from a neutral, "this is how it is" standpoint. What anyone chooses do do after that is based off what they want from there exhaust system. You may want the setup you just described, but I would rather prefer a UEL setup because I want the boxer rumble and don't care about 5 extra horsepower or a bit more low end torque out of this engine. Especially if I lose the rumble. But that's mostly because I hate the sounds 4 cylinders make. I prefer V8's to be honest... It's just what someone particularly wants from there car. They're inexpensive, not because they are actually a cheap quality (that have the exact same specs as the Borla UEL headers IIRC), but because they are not a major brand. They just used the engineering from others to build what they now produce. Honestly, I would never get Borla UEL headers because of how many times I've heard of them cracking. They're not "ebay brand" they're actually produced by a legit company that won't cut corners like plenty of other cheap crap on eBay. Just anyone here who's bought a speedy racer or other inexpensive branded UEL header on eBay and they'll tell you how satisfied they are with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overspool Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 They are cheap because they use an inexpensive type of stainless metal (there was a HUUUGE writeup on this awhile ago on another board... I want to say RS25? I'm not sure...), and because they didn't have to spend the money on R&D like Borla did I was under the impression that these were a knockoff of the Borlas, and if something is a knockoff I usually classify it as an "ebay brand". But that's just me. I like the sound of V8s, and I love the boxer rumble, but I own an AE86. I love the sound of a screaming inline 4 or 6 waaaay more for some reason lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lulzcow Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 A screaming inline 6 to me is the sound of a 76' Datsun 280Z. Not like a Corolla but more akin to a Camaro or other cars with larger, not smaller displacement motors. To each their own I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 To me, nothing sounds better than my 302 SBC. Just the way it sounds screaming past 7k rpm all the way to 9 grand. It's epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stang70Fastback Posted December 19, 2011 Author Share Posted December 19, 2011 Ok, so what I've learned from this argument so far. The headers I linked to are cheap knock-offs that might actually reduce the power of my car slightly. I don't like them anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 The headers are not cheap knockoffs. They're inexpensive headers using a different steal following the same design of Borla's headers. The Borla's cost $350 or so, and many people complain about them cracking after a while. I've never heard of anyone having a problem with the ones you linked. A buddy and I put the same brand UEL turbo header and up pipe on the 93 Legacy SS last winter, wrapped it with header wrap, and haven't had one problem. And no, if you look at the design of the header, you will see that it will improve mid rang to top end power, but may SLIGHTLY reduce low end torque because of of exhaust pulse collision. You can easily make up this power loss and actually gain power by getting some Delta Cams 1000 regrinds. I think that costs less than $150 IRRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overspool Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 You've heard our opinions, now it's time for your own I believe that they are borla "replicas" or "knockoffs", and you will lose a noticeable amount of low end torque, and get an awesome sounding car. Kenny believes they're not knockoffs, just inexpensive headers that are the exact same design as the Borla headers. And you gain mid-top end power, and you might lose power in the low end. And you could fix this by throwing money into CAMS to solve the problems that it would cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lulzcow Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Cams....must buy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I would get cams in an OB anyway.. More pulling power. Do you know what we're arguing over, 5.. MAYBE 10 whole horsepower gained and lost. Honestly, if you want it to be rumbly, get the UEL headers.. You won't notice a difference in how fast it is. Do a quick search in the second gen forum foe "UEl headers" and read the threads that pop up. Ask the posted of those threads how they like there cheap knock-off headers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 This is the Borla header http://www.borla.com/products/product_detail.aspx?prod_sku=17183&ref=cat http://i43.tinypic.com/2wf1vl2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamaha51 Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I honestly prefer inline 6's and any 4 cylinder to a V8 most of the time. I get tired of hearing all of these shitty sounding V8's. A good sounding V8 is pretty orgasmic though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lulzcow Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 What about a twin turbo V8? Like the McLaren MP4-12C? Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm And on a serious note I have the "knockoff" headers and love em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 And this guy is granny shifting it at about 7500 rpm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overspool Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I just like to be difficult I'm too lazy to do cams. I thought about it when I had the engine out, but decided against it. I just want a nice, reliable, DD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baddog Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Street cams don't really effect reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overspool Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I have no use for cams in a DD. The car probably won't ever see the track, except maybe at a wintercross or open track day. I see no reason to change the duration and overlap of the valves on a DD. If I did do cams, I would want to do valves, valve springs, port and polish the heads, etc. It would've been a money pit for me lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I have no use for cams in a DD. The car probably won't ever see the track, except maybe at a wintercross or open track day. I see no reason to change the duration and overlap of the valves on a DD. If I did do cams, I would want to do valves, valve springs, port and polish the heads, etc. It would've been a money pit for me lol. This is sooooo true. Cams wont do much without a full valve upgrade and PnP. -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Cams wont do much without a full valve upgrade and PnP. This is new to me.. I was always under the impression that they just move the power band towards the lower RPM's a bit and gave a gain of maybe 10hp overall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 This is new to me.. I was always under the impression that they just move the power band towards the lower RPM's a bit and gave a gain of maybe 10hp overall This is true, but when you add a cam most of the time you are looking for more lift, but on stock heads you are limited on the flow because of the valve size and intake ports. Most cams you have to use upgraded valve springs to account for more lift. On a stock NA EJ you may not have to worry about this, but anything making HP you need to spend money on the heads. -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 That's what I thought. And to anyone who cares, I never said that anything I suggested had to be done. I was just simply displaying any and all possibilities of what can be done. I never said anything should be done any particular way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 That's what I thought. And to anyone who cares, I never said that anything I suggested had to be done. I was just simply displaying any and all possibilities of what can be done. I never said anything should be done any particular way. Yep. To add to what I said... IMO it is pointless to 'build' a motor without building the heads. Look on nasioc, there are millions of threads of people who skipped the heads and it limited their motor. It is much easier to build the heads and block to what you want and then buy the upgraded bolt on parts later. -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Oh, I wouldn't build any motor without doing the heads. That's pointless. We're talking about a stock non-performance daily driver here. That's why I only suggested the cam regrinds if the actually loss in low end power from a UEL header was going to make a noticeable, and irritable difference to the OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stang70Fastback Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 This is turning into a very expensive upgrade... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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