edmundu Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 So which should I upgrade to? I know that the Stoptechs are supposed to be a little better with the 2pc rotors, but replacement parts for it are harder to source, as opposed to the STI Brembo's. Also, I would be looking to upgrade all 4 wheels with the STI Brembo's, whereas with the Stoptech only the fronts. The cost between them are similar, with the used STI Brembo's running a few hundred more, but that would include the rears as well. So what do you all think? I have Rota SDR's with a 48mm offset, so they can clear either one of these setups. My other question would be what stainless lines do I need for the front & rear? Can I use LGT lines for it, or are they different for the Stoptech or STI Brembo calipers? How about dustshield's, are they needed, or can the STI ones fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBNormal07 Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 I've found 2-piece units to be bit of a PITA, but that is just my opinion. STi brakes sound like a good deal if you are getting front and back. Lines...go with braided SS (and pressure tested). It's likely that the fittings are the same, but the angles and lengths might be a problem..can't say for sure. Why go to the trouble of upgrading your brakes if you don't do the same for your lines? I've used Cobb's lines in the past and they worked perfect (www.cobbtuning.com). For brakes resources I always check www.raceshopper.com. You can source lines, pads, fluids, and rotors there. Good service too. Too bad they still don't make Ferodo pads for our rides yet. Love those pads!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mann Engineering Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Either kit works well for the application. It will all depend on how you plan on driving your car. This goes with any brake upgrades. StopTech makes a complete front and rear setup that works quite well as we have it on one of our cars. When stopping hard you feel like your skin is being pulled off. You definitely cannot go wrong with Brembos either. The only question I have is what do you do to compensate for the larger e-brake setup that is needed on the STi Brembo rear rotors? Also, it might be quite a bit of work and cost a bit of money to put the rears on as well. You will probably have to have the hub pressed out and then back in to put the new dust shield in unless, the current dust shield works for the STi Brembos. I have not personally tried it out yet so I am not certain about what it is going to take to put the rears on. StopTech also makes lines for the Legacy front and rear. As far as replacement parts go for either brake kit, I think that you will have no problem finding parts for either of them. StopTech stocks parts for their own kits and have a variety of different pads as well. I think that you will not be disappointed with either of the two choices. Just some aspects to consider. We will be putting on the STi Brembos on the fronts only to see how they work on our Legacy GT with StopTech stainless steel lines. Regards, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBNormal07 Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Good info Gary. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 I have been talking with Jack from TWRracing, and they feel that their existing WRX kit, that includes a new bracket and 2pc rotors to allow the rear STI Brembo caliper to bolt on, and for the parking brake to work, without sleeving. I am just waiting to find out if custom lines might be needed or not? As for the dustshield, I didn't realize that you would need to press the hub on/off, in order to remove/install the dustshield? I gues I might have to cut it or trim it down? I am one of the people who feel the stock brakes on the lgt are weak. I have had rotor pulsation issues almost since I've gotten the car. I have had the front rotors resurfaced, and just a few k miles later it returns, and almost always only from 80 mph highway speeds. This last time I've had the car in for service, the SM and tech both claim they did not feel much pulsation, and that they checked the runout, and it was within spec, so they did nothing! I was told that the problem needs to get worse before they can do anything? I don't consider myself to be hard on the brakes, I really don't use them much in my 90 mile roundtrip commute everyday. But when I do, I fully expect them to at least be able to resist pulsations, and to not fade unless I did like 4-5 back-to-back 80-0mph panic stops. I do not want to invest money in upgrading pads+lines, only to find that they are insufficient, and then have to buy the BBK anyway. I just rather dump the $$$ right from the start! I also am coming from an Acura TL, that were known for brake warpage issues, and believe me I had them for 2 of the 3 years that I had the car, so I'm highly sensitive to any pulsations, which is why I probably am going overboard on the brakes, but I want to solve this problem right the 1st time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 .... We will be putting on the STi Brembos on the fronts only to see how they work on our Legacy GT with StopTech stainless steel lines. Regards, Gary Which Stoptech lines, the ones for an STI fitment or LGT fitment? I have committed to buying a set of STI Brembo fronts, used, for a great price! So I guess I have made my initial decision.... Gary, do you think just the front Brembo's alone can get the job done? If I upgrade the rear, I have 2 choices from the way I see it, either buy the NEW Brembo rear kit for $1,450. or buy used calipers $400+/-, and TWRracings kit which is $589, plus SS lines about $100 bringing this combo to around $1100. It would be used, but I would have 2pc rotors, OTOH the Brembo kit is brand new! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_DML Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 problem with just front brembos is I think it will change the brake bias. Stoptech front BBK will be designed to retain the front/rear brake bias which you most likely want. I am running stoptech front BBK on my wrx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 problem with just front brembos is I think it will change the brake bias. Stoptech front BBK will be designed to retain the front/rear brake bias which you most likely want. I am running stoptech front BBK on my wrx. But the WRX, has much smaller front brakes than the LGT. Not just rotor wise, but caliper pistons as well, plus the LGT has larger rear brakes, so in the end, I think it might be a pretty close call, although I can see the Brembo throwing the balance off a bit, but I am not opposed to replacing my rears, just that if it's not really needed, then I might consider leaving them. How do you like the Stoptech's? I kind of was a little put off when I had read in one of their FAQ's that there 2pc rotors needed to be cared for if exposed to salted winter roads? Something about replacing floating (springs/bolts/nuts) at least once a year. Have you found that to be true? It is also why I am leaning towards the new Brembo rear kit as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mann Engineering Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Which Stoptech lines, the ones for an STI fitment or LGT fitment? I have committed to buying a set of STI Brembo fronts, used, for a great price! So I guess I have made my initial decision.... Gary, do you think just the front Brembo's alone can get the job done? If I upgrade the rear, I have 2 choices from the way I see it, either buy the NEW Brembo rear kit for $1,450. or buy used calipers $400+/-, and TWRracings kit which is $589, plus SS lines about $100 bringing this combo to around $1100. It would be used, but I would have 2pc rotors, OTOH the Brembo kit is brand new! I will be using the StopTech lines for the Legacy GT fitment. I do believe that the fronts alone should fair pretty well. As far as the rear, even if you do cut the rear dust shield that still does not solve the answer for making the e-barke work correctly. Also, the stock dust shieilds may not hold the Brembo rear caliper up in the correct position without a custom bracket of some sort. Edit: I believe that you will need to pull the hub to replace the correct dust shield. Also when you pull the hubs out you will might as well replace the rear bearings as well. There is the possibility that the bearing could have damaged upon removal of the hub. I had to do this on my GC8 when I put the 22B calipers on my car. Regards, Gary Mann Engineering www.mann-engineering.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mann Engineering Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 problem with just front brembos is I think it will change the brake bias. Stoptech front BBK will be designed to retain the front/rear brake bias which you most likely want. I am running stoptech front BBK on my wrx. Yes, you are correct in saying that. I have one of the original pre-production StopTech BBK kits. And yes it works great on my mother's WRX and she loves them also. To Answer your brake bias question point, yes it will throw off the brake bias, which is the reason why I am curious to find out. It may not necessarilly throw the bias off too much. It is like saying you put the Subaru STI 4pots(ones that say Subaru on them) and they will throw off the bias as well. But even so, I have noticed that there was an improvement in the braking performance. Regards, Gary Mann Engineering http://www.mann-engineering.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nKoan Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 So which should I upgrade to? I know that the Stoptechs are supposed to be a little better with the 2pc rotors, but replacement parts for it are harder to source, as opposed to the STI Brembo's. FWIW, My friends and I have never experienced problems sourcing parts from Stoptech. They are very quick and helpful and cheaper then Brembo (if you order from Subaru). Used parts may be harder to source, but new ones show up quickly and easily from stoptech all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted June 23, 2005 Author Share Posted June 23, 2005 I will be using the StopTech lines for the Legacy GT fitment. I do believe that the fronts alone should fair pretty well. As far as the rear, even if you do cut the rear dust shield that still does not solve the answer for making the e-barke work correctly. Also, the stock dust shieilds may not hold the Brembo rear caliper up in the correct position without a custom bracket of some sort. Edit: I believe that you will need to pull the hub to replace the correct dust shield. Also when you pull the hubs out you will might as well replace the rear bearings as well. There is the possibility that the bearing could have damaged upon removal of the hub. I had to do this on my GC8 when I put the 22B calipers on my car. Regards, Gary Mann Engineering www.mann-engineering.com Gary, That kit includes custom 2pc rotors which are the correct diameter for the LGT/WRX parking brake shoes, along with the correct mounting bracket to hold the Brembo caliper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mann Engineering Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 My bad. I completely missed that. So they designed the hat to work with the stock legacy setup. Sounds good. I guess then, it is up to you on trying out the setup and seeing how it works. I am curious to know as well. For now, I am going to just try the Brembos on the front to see how it fairs. I think that worst case, I will upgrade the pads for the rear as well. I have thought about putting together a complete front Brembo kit, using the STi calipers. But the overall retail price would have exceeded that of the StopTechs and be a bit more than what people would be expecting and everything would be brand new. Regards, Gary Mann Engineering http://www.mann-engineering.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted June 23, 2005 Author Share Posted June 23, 2005 Doesn't Brembo already retail such a kit? I believe Rallitek sells them. They are 326mmx30mm 1pc rotors, Gold calipers, lines, and pads for a reasonable $1480 shipped! They also have a rear kit for the same price, which I am considering. Just want to confirm that they are a matching Gold to my STI Brembo's I just picked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinkingofimports.com Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 We can also sell the Brembo kits and will match anybody's price on them. These come with Calipers, Lines, and Pads. I believe this is the same setup used on the Legacy STi in Japan with a few minor modifications to fit on the US Legacy. We installed a similar kit on a Impreza Wagon and it stopped better than the STi does and feels much better as well. The only difference to our knowledge is the cross drilled rotors that came with the brembo kit. Still, that would not explain the difference in brake feel when the cars are using exactly the same calipers and pads. Subie.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mann Engineering Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Yeah, Brembo does market a kit like that. That is another reason why I decided against it. Perhaps the pad compound is different. That would be the easiest to change in order to make stop better. There are also many other factors to take into consideration. For example, what tires were the wagon using as compared to the STi? Are the pad compounds the same? Where the wheels the same? Also, you have to keep in mind that the STi is a heavier car stock for stock. When comparing brake setups, you have to keep certain factors as controlled as possible otherwise the comparison is invalid. Regards, Gary Mann Engineering http://www.mann-engineering.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_DML Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 But the WRX, has much smaller front brakes than the LGT. Not just rotor wise, but caliper pistons as well, plus the LGT has larger rear brakes, so in the end, I think it might be a pretty close call, although I can see the Brembo throwing the balance off a bit, but I am not opposed to replacing my rears, just that if it's not really needed, then I might consider leaving them. How do you like the Stoptech's? I kind of was a little put off when I had read in one of their FAQ's that there 2pc rotors needed to be cared for if exposed to salted winter roads? Something about replacing floating (springs/bolts/nuts) at least once a year. Have you found that to be true? It is also why I am leaning towards the new Brembo rear kit as well.... good point about the bias. I have been running them for only a few months plus I live in sunny southern california so I dont expect any problems. Feel is greatly improved compared to the mushy wrx brakes. The reason I got them because I got pad deposits on my stock setup at the track. Havent tracked my car yet with the stoptech going in august though:-) good luck on your decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highwaydrifter Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 its all about the 6piston AP racing loving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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