Impreza / Legacy Connection

[MtnSub]

Fugly B9 /Impreza Thread moved out for being "off topic".

 

I understand it is a judgment call and we all know what a great resource “agctr” has been/is for this site, but I would argue that a discussion about the B9 and new Impreza front end is “on-topic”. I saw this thread as a discussion of the "future face of Legacy".

 

Those of us that have purchased the new LegGT and post about future LegSti or SpecB etc., find the B9 and now Impreza face design directly related to future interest and/or purchase of a near future Legacy. Those waiting to buy a LegGT find the B9/Impreza a strong sign of Legacy design to come.

 

I am a LegGT wagon owner that has been hoping to upgrade to a LegSti wagon in 07/08 and I have no interest in the Impreza Sti or B9. I found the thread very informative. Activity on the thread was quite active and opinions strong. Yes, some comments were harsh or in bad taste, but people were being passionate about the future face of “Legacy”.

 

Did not see a post or sign that the thread was being moved or where the thread went. I did find it. Moving it out of Subaru Legacy will ensure topic dies. Maybe enough had been said. Thanks to those that provided great pictures.

 

Again, I understand this was a judgment call. I hope there was no pressure to quiet harsh comments about Subaru. Most of us are Subaru owners and enjoy are cars beyond basic transportation or we would not be spending time at this site. Most of us have posted many glowing comments about Subaru and Legacy specific.

 

Thanks agctr for your interesting, valuable work on this site. No intent to be critical of your work.

[iyamdman]

That was the whole point.

 

Subaru's design direction with the B9 has me worryied that the next version of the Leg, possible a Leg Spec B (a real one) with an ugly front would be a tragic.

 

Especially since I love my Leg, and would want to upgrade it in 07-08.

 

Also, the comments - weather positive or negitive - hopefully will get back to Subaru - and give them a clear direction on the way thier core market feels.

 

Uh, just out of curiosity - where did the thread go?

 

What about the other thread that started it - the one with the 2007 Imprezza photos?

[MtnSub]

The Fugly B9/Impreza Thread is buried in the "off topic" forum section under the "other cars & other cars compared to Legacy". Go to forums, scroll down to Off Topic Forums and click on "other cars.....) Good luck.

 

I doubt this site get's much notice at Subaru decision level. I was just interested in what other car/LegacyGT fans thought of the pig nose. Once this type of corporate direction is started, it almost always runs its cycle with the only hope being a really good modification that saves the day.

[SUBE555]

I moved that thread.

[MtnSub]

Ah ha, after all this time, we knew you were this site's deep throat.

[SUBE555]

Na, I'm more like the Cigarette Smoking Man.

[MtnSub]

I am in envy. You are the man.

[SUBE555]

And side from reading anything from about about the conversation, the Legacy/Impreza connection is that the Legacy came first and Impreza came second, for gen 1 Impreza and gen 2 Legacy, there were many similarities still, however, now much is different. Now I have to go back and read what you were talking about. That's just speaking comments to the title.

[MtnSub]

Maybe some of us have overstated how bad the new Sti/B9 grill is. After all, it is a subjective issue.

 

Does, "it is not that bad" make you desire a car over other options? Is "it is not that bad" a comment on design that would help a design team keep their jobs?

 

I did not select a LegGT/Ltd for practical reasons only. Being practical, I should have purchased a Prius or a used Outback. The new B9 pig nose does not generate product lust or a competitive edge and it does create a significant negative, polarized response. The car industry is a very competitve battle ground and "it is not that bad" does not capture delta market share.

 

Hey, we all do dumb things, now and then. I hope Subaru makes me eat these words by making the new B9 pig nose sexy

[SUBE555]

The Legacy nose is sexy, who are you trying to kid!

[IwannaSportSedan]

The legacy nose isn't perfect, especially the extended schnoz on the USDM cars, and although I am sure 99.99999% of people don't know, nor care about it, but I think the Legacy grille could be improved ever so slightly, mostly having to do with the shape of the hood that makes the upper grille line.

 

Personally, I think the upper corners could be defined a little more, by tightening the radius of the upper left and upper right corners, and making the grille more of a 4 sided shape, and less of a 6 sided shape.

 

That and a factory option or standard mesh grille on the GT, would be nice. I know some folks think it is trivial, but I am with the group that thinks the shorter front overhang bumpers that the rest of the world gets are just so much more fitting.

 

All that said, I think the USDM Legacy has some of the best looks for a car in it's segment, and better than some much more expensive sedans, let a lone wagons. (there aren't many others, but the Legacy still looks better than the few out there.)

 

Personally, after looking at and inside a B9 Tribeca, I think it is completely ugly. The front end looks pre-smashed, with the pug-nosed grille, and the headlights so high on the front. The sides are bland, even though they aren't just flat. The rear quarter windows are gimmicky, and a rip-off of the Nissan Murano, which is gimmicky, too.

 

The rear of the B9 is a complete mess. A weird concave section with a character line around it, tiny squinty tail lights on a massive metal and glass surface. They had plenty of real estate to use for tail lights, but they are still too small to incorporate their own reflectors, so those have to be placed lower on the vehicle. Not really on the bumper, as the bumper isn't really obvious, other than being the bottom of the body work, under the weird concave part.

 

I don't like the interior either. The dash is concave and cross-eyed, and the console is strangely convex. Too artsy and pointless. The only thing I like is the design of the three ACC dials with inset LCDs. I hope that makes it to the Legacy/OB dash, with a separated stereo head Unit, but otherwise no other design changes (except maybe a finish that won't be prone to wear in the future. I have my doubts about silver painted plastics, but maybe they'll hold up.)

 

The grille elements themselves, mostly on the B9, but now on the 06 Impreza, as well, the fuselage and wings motif, is a questionable idea, that has been executed badly, and makes it the wrong answer to the question.

 

People refer to the Alfa Romeo grille. Other than having a pronounced center element, they are completely different. The Alfa has a slim downward pointing wedge, which when Alfa does it right, can actually be quite striking and unique, and more important, likeable.

 

The Subaru's center element is supposed to be reminiscent of an aircraft fuselage. That isn't what I think of. I think of a horseshoe at best, and a weird toilet seat at worst. If an actual aircraft had a fuselage with that cross-section, I think it would be either a cargo plane, or otherwise ugly, too.

 

I hope Subaru realizes how badly they are polarizing their designs, and it isn't doing them any favors. Unique is one thing, Ugly is another. The B9 I think is hopeless without a major freshening, but I am not in the demographic for that vehicle, so maybe I am just missing the point.

 

The 06 Impreza's saving grace is that at least the bumper cover and hood can be changed, as soon as an aftermarket company can come out with some better looking parts. If they keep the simple design of the lower part of the bumper cover, and simplify and clean up the grille, and keep the new headlights, I think they'll sell a ton of them to people who want a WRX or STi, but don't like the look. I still think Subaru will take a hit on unit sales, and on price of the ones they do sell, to compensate for the owners wanting to save money for new paint and bodywork, to clean up Subie's mess.

 

If the update cycle for the Legacy and outback brings the "airplane" grille motif, then I am gonna be a no go on that model year, barring some complete aftermarket kit that would clean it back up. But buying a used 05 or 06 Legacy instead of a mangled 07 or 08 will be an easy choice, if I haven't purchased already by then.

[MtnSub]

IwannaSS, I did not know the front overhang on “non” USDM Legacy’s was significantly less. I agree that this is a big deal. Our US LegGTs are not as bad as the Acura TSX overhang, but as my sons pointed out, their BMW3s have much less overhang than my LegGT. Less overhang is much better looking and would set LegGT apart from the crowd. I think our current LegGT face has unique character with the falcon eye lights, subtle hood scoop and attractive front air dam with fog lights. The BMW5 and a number of Japanese cars have lower panels that look like cheap plastic, aftermarket bolt-ons. Our LegGTs are very clean and solid looking. LegGT wagons are even more unique, IMO.

 

My only interest in talking about the B9/new Impreza face mangle is related to my interest in buying another LegGT(Sti???) in 07/08 timeframe. I chose not to buy a BMW5 or X3 because they are so ugly and I cannot imagine buying a LegSti wagon with the current B9 nose. The B9 airplane theme must be a Lockheed C130 cargo ship head on or B747 at best. The F117A stealth fighter would have provided better inspiration for designing the trapizoid nose. I think there is an Alfa connection. Many decades ago, when AlfaR was creating their beautiful, unique grill, they picked the best design iteration and Subaru picked one of the old rejected design options.for the B9.

 

I think the B9 concept nose could be modified to look good and I hope they get it right before the LegGT gets a facelift or facemangle. Pull the awkwardly placed Suby emblem out of the grill and put a smaller emblem on the hood in the BMW position. Narrow the pig nose (trapezoid) and make it a more vertical element, which lengthens the wings slightly and use very cool materials (black mesh or carbon fiber louvers). A good designer might make it sexy.

 

Subaru appears to be enjoying great momentum with the new Leg/OB. I hope they don’t send us new converts packing for our next car. I am so impressed with my LegGT wagon, after 7,500 miles, I am hoping to upgrade to a LegSti in 07/08, but not if it has the current B9 nose.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Mostly I was talking about the overhang, meaning the extended (or should I say distended) front bumper. The distance between the front wheel and the headlights is the same, regardless. it is just the bumper and lower bumper section that is longer. I actually don't mind the fog lights and lower intake on the USDM bumper, but the JDM 2.0 GT bumper is a purer, and likely the original design.

 

I think the extended bumper artificially makes the grille look small and set further back. I love the Legacy's headlights, and the hood scoop, as well. but I would like it even more, if the bumper cover fit more flush with the headlights' surface, and didn't extend the lower grille edge so far forward, as the original JDM design does correctly. I am not sure that I will be able to afford it, but I really want to get a JDM spec bumper (the k2 M5-look peice) and beam, with the larger GT Spec B grille. If I can afford it, I am going to do it.

 

The former Alfa designer may be involved with the new Subaru face, but the subaru face looks MUCH worse than Alfa's wedge grille. I agree that the BMW Xs, especially the X3 is ugly, too.

 

A badge on the hood is a decent idea. A good designer, as you mentionoed from Art School of Design, or something, might be able to rescue this design theme, but I am not holding out much hope of that being possible, and nearly none that Subaru will change it, unless they ditch it if people shun it in droves.

 

I am hoping to buy an 06 or 07 Legacy GT or STi in about 18 months, or sooner, if I can pay off my current cars faster, or decide to sell/trade one of my current vehicles. If they do "face mangle" the legacy, I'll just get a rebated or used '06, as I doubt they will put the corporate face on the Leg/OB that soon.

 

If the 07 Legacy STi arrives for a price tag I can afford at that time, with a kick-arse twin turbo H6, a great 6MT, and amazing AWD, in WR Blue, but with the new corporate schnoz, much like the 06 Impreza WRX STi, I am gonna have a very very hard decision. A potentially amazing car, with ugly bodywork... How would you decide something like that?

[SUBE555]

I like the USDM bumpers more than the foreign shorter ones.

[iyamdman]

I like the USDM front - since the JDM is really not much shorter.

 

The rear on the other hand - easily is 3-4 inches longer.

 

I would love to have the JDM rear on my wagon.