7stars Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 I've never owned an AWD car, so I'm curious about what it has to offer. It's hard to find info on AWD cars compared to their RWD or FWD counterparts. But I was able to get info on the 2G Eclipse and G35. The slalom, 0-60, and skidpad numbers for the AWD trims were nearly identical to the RWD/FWD. Seems like the added weight and higher drivetrain loss take away any handling and launch benefits. I know AWD is better in bad weather and dirt roads. What else is it good for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Well if you live in a dry climate, the benefit isn't that great for normal driving, but look at it this way, the actual mileage able to be had by other cars with similar power figures and lesser value, many have FWD or RWD at most. It's just a good value of a car overall. Ultimately it comes down to what you need. If it was just sunny all the time by me, I'd consider a 97/98 BMW M3 4-door. Just my personal preference though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt_ltd Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 check this out: [url]http://www.subaru.com/allwheeldrive/ver2005/index.jsp?track=shopleftnav_awd&model=LEGACY[/url] This Space For Rent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt_ltd Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 I rode in an E36 M3 coupe a while ago and, man, the brakes were so awesome! :D I'd get one too if it didn't snow here in CO. [quote name='SUBE555']I'd consider a 97/98 BMW M3 4-door.[/quote] This Space For Rent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7stars Posted June 26, 2004 Author Share Posted June 26, 2004 Thanks. That site has some good info. I think I will benefit from having AWD, because there are dirt roads I don't bother to drive on much with my current car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 For me AWD has all round drivability. For example, having owned front wheel drive cars in the past, I have noticed with the AWD package that you can drive thru corners and turns a lot easier. The front pulls around while the rear pushes which is fantastic. Regardless of the weather or the conditions on the road, I believe that the AWD has fantastic control and balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Maximum traction in all conditions should be enough reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I believe it was around December of 2003 or 2002 that Consumer Reports conducted a test of AWD with all season tires vs FWD with winter tires. The results were controversial, and generated some long threads at a few internet newsgroups. I don't subscribe to CR, and did not read the article, but apparently CR concluded that AWD with AS tires was superior to FWD with winter tires, for driving in snow and ice. Personally, I can see how AWD+AS tires may accelerate better than FWD+Snows, but I would expect the FWD+Snows to beat AWD+AS tires in braking and turning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteVTEC Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 [u]Things I like about AWD[/u] - All weather "no worries" driveability - No front-end plow in turns like with FWD - Better balanced - Much better launch traction [u]Things I dislike about AWD[/u] - Added weight (200 lbs) hurts fuel economy, performance (from a roll) - Also hurts handling (cornering grip) since you have more weight to turn on the same sized tires - Higher drivetrain parasitics also hurts economy/performance - More complex, more expensive to buy, more expensive to maintain (alignments, etc) I can see how AWD with A/S would still be better in snow/ice than FWD with winters. Especially your usual FWD car which is open differential. It doesn't matter how good your snow tires are. One of your drive wheels on pure ice and zero traction (even with snows) = you're STUCK! lol. Any decent AWD system has limited slip differentials that will redistribute torque to non-spinning wheels. That can make all the difference in the world. FWD cars with limited slip diffs are pretty rare in the US. Up in Canada where they have a lot more snow they're much more common. When I was in Finland on business for awhile, I was surprised to see that the Finns pretty much all have FWD cars. But they run two sets of tires. A/S and then SPIKES! LOL. That country has pretty extreme climate changes though, lol. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 The added weight is certainly a killer although the performance of AWD out weighs this factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteVTEC Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 depends on what your criteria is and how you define "performance". From a roll it's slower. Added weight and built up drivetrain inertial momentum is harder to bring to a stop. Fuel mileage is lower. Turning and corner exit is definitely a ton better with AWD, though vs at least FWD. The one thing you can do with AWD and a manual is do a clutch dump from 6000 rpm and get some ridiculously good 1/4 mile times. But never in a million years would I do that to my own car, so that's nothing I'd take advantage of either. That's part of why I passed on an 02 WRX when they first came out and got something else instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Criteria is based on in and out performance from a corner or roundabout. The ability to push thru a corner is great than the point and shoot theory of a FWD or RWD. Meaning, slow for corner, go around and then nail it. I dont think many ppl have ever dumped at 6K let alone getting all4 spinning at the same time, well in their own car anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteVTEC Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Well yeah, in that respect it's great. But in my driving I rarely if ever go ripping around corners like that. With me, my needs, and my type of driving, AWD is mostly wasted potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 [quote name='SteVTEC'] I can see how AWD with A/S would still be better in snow/ice than FWD with winters. Especially your usual FWD car which is open differential. It doesn't matter how good your snow tires are. Steve[/quote] If you are talking about "launch traction", then I agree an AWD car with all seasons will outperform the FWD car with winter tires. This assumes that 4 all season contact patches have more total friction than 2 winter tire contact patches. But when it comes to braking and steering, AWD offers no advantages over FWD in snow/ice, and the FWD car with winter tires will outbrake and outsteer the AWD with AS tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Ahh ok, well thats fair too. For me I use AWD pretty much all the time, love the in and out stuff. I also love watching RWD and FWD cars try and follow you around bends and corners, the distance you can put between u and them can sometimes be amazing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 [quote name='SteVTEC'][u]Things I like about AWD[/u] - All weather "no worries" driveability - No front-end plow in turns like with FWD - Better balanced - Much better launch traction [u]Things I dislike about AWD[/u] - Added weight (200 lbs) hurts fuel economy, performance (from a roll) - Also hurts handling (cornering grip) since you have more weight to turn on the same sized tires - Higher drivetrain parasitics also hurts economy/performance - More complex, more expensive to buy, more expensive to maintain (alignments, etc)[/quote] You still get plow with AWD (WRX) but I think cornering grip is increased signifigantly despite the added weight. With two wheel drive, excessive load is placed on the drive wheels. So, when lateral forces come into play during cornering, the tyres can't cope, so the vehicle steers to the outside or inside of the corner (understeering or oversteering). With AWD, the engine power is distributed to all four wheels in a balanced way, so there's little loss of tyre grip in the direction of vehicle travel, even when lateral force is applied during cornering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 In regards to that DM, the system is set up so, it one wheel is detected as slipping the power will be taken away from there and applied to the other side to try and correct it. In short, AWD can make an average driver look like Schuy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteVTEC Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 [quote name='Drift Monkey']You still get plow with AWD (WRX) but I think cornering grip is increased signifigantly despite the added weight. With two wheel drive, excessive load is placed on the drive wheels. So, when lateral forces come into play during cornering, the tyres can't cope, so the vehicle steers to the outside or inside of the corner (understeering or oversteering). With AWD, the engine power is distributed to all four wheels in a balanced way, so there's little loss of tyre grip in the direction of vehicle travel, even when lateral force is applied during cornering.[/quote] All other factors being equal in steady state cornering (meaning not accelerating or decelerating), AWD is at a disadvantage vs FWD or RWD. Reason? Weight. The more you burden your tires with weight while cornering, the less cornering g's you'll be able to achieve before losing grip. Since FWD/RWD is usually 200 lbs lighter, the tires are less burdened. You can see that in skidpad tests of say the BMW 330i vs the 330xi. The xi model doesn't corner as well. Accelerating out of a corner though, AWD definitely helps you since you can get on the throttle sooner and you have much better control on exit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 [quote name='SteVTEC']....Accelerating out of a corner though, AWD definitely helps you since you can get on the throttle sooner and you have much better control on exit.[/quote] IIRC, Audi cleaned up in TransAm racing with their AWD cars (this must have been 10-12 years ago) precisely because of this. AWD was soon banned in TransAm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Good point Outahere, the same thing happened in Australia with the Bathurst 1000Km race a few years ago, they used to run R32 GTR's, they one and were banned the next year....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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