wunderkind Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 BMW is selling on mindset. Years ago it was a standard, however many car companies have caught up and in certain areas surpassed it. My wife and I were totally disappointed with the E46 and worse still with the E90's interior. We find that the interior was nice when it came out, but come on flat dash? Even the bmw sales person admitted that the E90's interior was a step down from the more organic flow of the e46. In terms of material... how can one compare the hard leather wrapped steering wheel of the bimmer to the softer meater MOMO unit in the Legacy? The dashboard in the bimmer didn't inspire me nor make me feel special unless staring at the blue & white roundel counts. Overall, we didn't come out too impressed. Driving the bimmer was nice though. It is still a fine driver's car. My folks have a 330ci and rave about it. But they too felt speechless after they sat and drove an LGT ltd. Competition in this segment is hot. BMW needs to buck up. The e90 didn't impressed me as much as when the e46 did over the e36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx002 Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Exactly... I saw the pics of the new 3 series interior..yikes! It looks like a late 80's buick. Love the outside lines though, but after I saw the pricing for the Xi, I laughed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmurph Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Ok, IMHO, you are out of your mind if you say that the 3 series interior was better than the Subbie in any way. I have zero loyalty to Subbie or BMW (first one of each I owned), but I have and currently own, Lexus, Acura, Honda, Toyota, and multiple GM cars so I know what a great interior looks like. The 3 series interior is a joke. Cheap plastic looking, sparse, the seating had little side bolster, JUST AS NARROW AS THE SUBBIE, the doors sound like tin when closed, the carpeting was the cheapest I've EVER seen, and the seating position sucked (I am also 6'3 so don't give me crap about how tall you are). There were great things about the BMW but the interior wasn't one of them. Lack of power, and the interior were the two reasons I got rid of it. I thought it was way overpriced for what I got (I own/have owned $60,000 cars so I'm not saying this as some kid whose never spent the money on a luxury car. As a side note...I am soooo sick of German loyalty crap. I got sucked into believing all that of how great they are. BS. My best friend is a Mercedes freak (owns two) and I think they are complete garbage as well. Two things I learned from my experiences. 1. You are going to really overpay for a BMW or Mercedes. 2. They break....a lot. Don't take my word on it, look at JD Powers surveys and every long term quality survey. Japan, the US, and the rest of the world long ago caught and past these guys on quality and bang for buck was never there. Well, I guess we agree on something...we both believe that the other is out of there mind:D. I guess you're idea of quality materials is different than mine. To call the e46 3-series interior a joke is a joke itself IMO....I have spent a lot of time behind the wheel of 325s and 330s but maybe I'm just too used to my M3 which has Nappa leather seats and a few interior upgrades. I have also owned Acuras and my father has 2001 Lexus GS300 and a 2003 Mercedes E500...and I feel that my interior is not quite as nice looking when compared to the Mercedes...but it's not terrible and the quality of materials is comparable...and the seats in the M3 are still probably the most comfortable I've ever sat in... M3 Seats http://199.239.248.45/images/stk/2001/bm2001m3coupe02.jpg 3-Series Interior http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2002/BMW/100003670/026832-E.jpg http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2005/Subaru/100396965/030045-E.jpg As for interior size...l looked up the specs on the LGT and the e46 3-series and they are pretty darn close up front but the Bimmer is noticeably larger in headroom and legroom in the rear... I did not realize that the e46 3-series was so narrow (68.5"). The LGT is 68.1". My M3 is 70.1" Also, with regards to front room and seating postion, maybe it's the way the dash is designed in the Legacy...it must take up more space because I feel there is less room for my legs and the parking brake constantly digs into my right side. As for the doors sounding like tin when they are closed My doors on the M3 close like a vault and are more solid than my LGT's....not even close. As a sidenote...I have 62K miles on and off the track with my 2001 M3 and had 70K miles on my old e36 328is before I sold it and have had few problems with both...nothing major and not many more than the 3 Acuras I've owned. On the other hand, my 1999 Honda Accord has only 56K miles and the Automatic tranny is shot...My father-in-law also has gone through one transmission on his 2000 Accord...so Japanese reliability is not always a given. it's one thing to have a few minor nagging problems...but a transmission - that's a lot of cash. I like the e90...I'm not too crazy about the flat dash but the materials are good quality...I like the exterior much more - definitely the best since they started heading a different direction with the hideous looking 7-series. E90 330i Yikes! http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2006/BMW/100530524/20024357-E.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx002 Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 First of all....you are comparing an M3 to a GT..get real. The M3 seats are NOT the same and as you pointed out, neither is the interior dimensions. I was talking a standard 325i.....which in price, is STILL much more money than a GT. As for the doors....Call me. I'll have 50 people in the office here tell you the same. It was a running joke here (there are 5 people here with BMW'S....and they all agree the the 3 series doors and interior suck. M5 x 2 two 5 series and one 7 series). On a side note, we also all agree that the M5's interior isn't much better and far below Lexus and Infinity quality for similiar cars. Please god see my Lexus GX leather and wood trim and then tell me how your 40K+ M3 compares. It is a joke and a well known Joke. I haven't been in the new 3 series, but then I don't want to. If I hate the pictures it isn't going to get better in person. GGRRR I wish it were easier to post pics here...I have some of my old 325i and the Lexus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderkind Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 i've to say the picture of the interior for the 3-series do look better than in real life. hahahahah.... ok ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmurph Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 First of all....you are comparing an M3 to a GT..get real. The M3 seats are NOT the same and as you pointed out, neither is the interior dimensions. I was talking a standard 325i.....which in price, is STILL much more money than a GT. As for the doors....Call me. I'll have 50 people in the office here tell you the same. It was a running joke here (there are 5 people here with BMW'S....and they all agree the the 3 series doors and interior suck. M5 x 2 two 5 series and one 7 series). On a side note, we also all agree that the M5's interior isn't much better and far below Lexus and Infinity quality for similiar cars. Please god see my Lexus GX leather and wood trim and then tell me how your 40K+ M3 compares. It is a joke and a well known Joke. I haven't been in the new 3 series, but then I don't want to. If I hate the pictures it isn't going to get better in person. GGRRR I wish it were easier to post pics here...I have some of my old 325i and the Lexus No..I'm not trying to compare a M3 with a GT...but I'm obviously more familiar with it. The interior dimesions are virtually identical between the M3 and 3-series....at least for the front passengers. If you're talking about a base 325 with little or no options then, yes, interior is definitely not as nice when compared to a loaded 330 with performance package or M3....and I would have to agree that the base 325i seats are not as bolstered if compared to a '05 LGT...but the BMW seats that come with the sports package are bolstered more. The interior pieces (excluding the cup holder tray which is removable and can be replaced with a storage bin) are good quality. Also, keep in mind, the e46 came out over 6 years ago...it's still a pretty nice design...here's what a 6 year old LGT looks like inside and out. The Legacy interior has definitely improved a lot over the years...it's very, very nice now. 1999 LGT http://images.autotrader.com/images/2005/4/24/181/686/1410826712.181686021.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.jpg Yes, Toyota does make some great interiors.... http://www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2003/03.lexus.gx470/03.lexus.gx470.int.500.jpg I especially like the new GS models....beautiful. http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2006/Lexus/100284903/20023373-E.jpg Wood filled interiors are also available for M3s...and any other BMW. e39 BMW M5...pretty nice. http://www.bimmerfest.com/photos/data/504/141m5_lake_int.jpg a M3 with Maple wood. /images/bmw/M3_maple_dash_cntr.jpg /images/bmw/M3_maple_front_arm.jpg I'm not a big fan of wood...I prefer brushed aluminum. ...but I didn't buy an M3 for it's interior. http://members.roadfly.com/kmurph/BMWCCAsch.jpg http://members.roadfly.com/kmurph/BMWCCAsch2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx002 Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Unfortunately you can't feel a picture. You can't see the difference in material quality. You can't hear the doors slam. You can't see the floor mats wear out in 2 months (mine litterally had wear patterns in them after 4k miles as did the carpet. You can't hear road noise (another gripe for a 34k car (no mine wasn't loaded but wasn't stripped out either). I certainly didn't hate everything about the BMW, far from it, but I'd say it was easily the least favorite new car I've owned after living with it for a year. No cup holders in the back seat???? No folding arm rest for the back seat? It was like bringing home the super model...She's great for a night, but I'm marrying her was a mistake..... Oh and that Nav system in the BMW X5 is horrid (tried using a few times now)...They need to take a look at Toyota's very intuitive system. All I'm saying here is for the $, you can do so much better all the way around. (M3 might be an exception for me since it's all about the drive and you get a lot for your $) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 LGT>325i 'nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmurph Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Unfortunately you can't feel a picture. You can't see the difference in material quality. You can't hear the doors slam. You can't see the floor mats wear out in 2 months (mine litterally had wear patterns in them after 4k miles as did the carpet. You can't hear road noise (another gripe for a 34k car (no mine wasn't loaded but wasn't stripped out either). I certainly didn't hate everything about the BMW, far from it, but I'd say it was easily the least favorite new car I've owned after living with it for a year. No cup holders in the back seat???? No folding arm rest for the back seat? It was like bringing home the super model...She's great for a night, but I'm marrying her was a mistake..... Oh and that Nav system in the BMW X5 is horrid (tried using a few times now)...They need to take a look at Toyota's very intuitive system. All I'm saying here is for the $, you can do so much better all the way around. (M3 might be an exception for me since it's all about the drive and you get a lot for your $) We obviously have different tastes....but at least agree on one thing otherwise we wouldn't be here - we love our Legacy:) I love to hear and feel everything about driving...what fun is it if you can barely hear the engine or can't feel every little pebble on the road? My floor mats are fine after 62K miles...they are a little worn but that's it. My car has a folding arm rest and it's a coupe...why would you let someone drink in the back seat - no cupholders needed:D Europeans laugh at how Americans think cup holders are so important...we should pay more attention to driving and not to a cup of coffee. BMW's NAV is nice but is (like you said) inferior when compared to Honda or Toyota...but it has gotten better since 2001...and I assume that the new BMW's nav has improved even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderkind Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 Bah, the Infiniti/Nissan's bird's eye view NAV is the coolest. Just read in R&T that the M45 beat out the 540i! wowzah! Signs of things to come. The Infiniti GTR (aka Skyline) may well be the new standard in the luxury sports coupe segment if M becomes Marketing instead of Motorsports. Already in EVO mag's GT3/Spec-C/CSL shootout, the CSL was spanked by an Impreza Spec-C. So tides are changing. How about the mindset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmurph Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 Bah, the Infiniti/Nissan's bird's eye view NAV is the coolest. Just read in R&T that the M45 beat out the 540i! wowzah! Signs of things to come. The Infiniti GTR (aka Skyline) may well be the new standard in the luxury sports coupe segment if M becomes Marketing instead of Motorsports. Already in EVO mag's GT3/Spec-C/CSL shootout, the CSL was spanked by an Impreza Spec-C. So tides are changing. How about the mindset? The CSL was spanked by the Impreza? I just read the article and according to the authors, the CSL was beat by the Impreza 0-60 and 0-100. The BMW has SMG which cannot be launched like a traditional manual...it's not meant for drag racing. Even with SMG, they should of been able to manage better times though...regular U.S. SMG M3s are capable of faster times than what EVO was able to get. I read the article twice and I never came away with the idea that the Impreza spanked the CSL. It was definitely praised but no less than either the GT3 or CSL... "If you can't afford the German cars, don't worry - the Spec C gets you remarkably close to their performance and raw appeal, more so than just about anything else for the money." The Impreza is definitely a great car for the money...which is why you might see an STi in my driveway within the next few years:D ...the mindset? Who's mindset? BMWs? BMW has definitely upset a lot BMW Loyalist withg their new exterior designs and electronics. BMW seems to be more concerned about selling cars to the masses. They seem to have gotten a little away from designing "Driver's cars"....everyone else has certainly gotten a lot closer but I don't think they're quite there yet. I guess it's only a matter of time...I think BMW has been staying a step ahead...barely....not like it once was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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