Adoniram Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Well, I've read through the reviews section and there's surprisingly only 1 review of a header... So I'm asking for your advice on what to buy. I know that some parts can be better than others, so I want the best information before I buy. Before you make a suggestion, though, please know that I have absolutely no brand loyalty when it comes to aftermarket parts. In the past, when it came to simple things like a CAI, I found a $20 ebay aluminum intake to be just as effective as a $300 aluminum intake with a sticker on it. Big deal. I know the turbo world is a different story for many things, so that's why I'm soliciting your advice before I go and do something stupid like order the $160 header & uppipe combo on ebay... (btw, anyone ever bought on of those?) I'm already planning on buying a CNT catted downpipe from m sprank this week... After header, uppipe and downpipe, would I "need" a tune? (stage 2?) Or is it fine to run the way it is? Thanks for all the advice! (sorry for being so wordy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users LieutenantDan Posted February 6, 2011 Mega Users Share Posted February 6, 2011 The reviews section is pretty sparse. There is a wealth of information in the separate sections of the forum. So step 1: Search (using google with legacygt.com in the search bar) Step 2: Don't buy aftermarket headers unless you're really really sure that you want them. The OEM ones are just fine. Just get a used catless uppipe from the marketplace, the CNT catted downpipe is perfect, and yes you will need a "Stage 2" tune from Infamous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Well, I've read through the reviews section and there's surprisingly only 1 review of a header... So I'm asking for your advice on what to buy. I know that some parts can be better than others, so I want the best information before I buy. Before you make a suggestion, though, please know that I have absolutely no brand loyalty when it comes to aftermarket parts. In the past, when it came to simple things like a CAI, I found a $20 ebay aluminum intake to be just as effective as a $300 aluminum intake with a sticker on it. Big deal. Do you want the best information or the cheapest parts? Welcome to the LGT community. Something like a little label on your CAI may mean the difference between running clean and running dangerously lean but if you want to go untried go for it. Just make sure to watch those afr unless you buy a tune to go with and you may find the tuner tears it out of the car and tosses the OEM back in since its a very able CAI itself. I know the turbo world is a different story for many things, so that's why I'm soliciting your advice before I go and do something stupid like order the $160 header & uppipe combo on ebay... (btw, anyone ever bought on of those?) Yeah I tore em off, sold them for $40 to IStealFromBums and bought GTSPEC ELH+UP combo. I'm already planning on buying a CNT catted downpipe from m sprank this week... After header, uppipe and downpipe, would I "need" a tune? (stage 2?) Or is it fine to run the way it is? Thanks for all the advice! (sorry for being so wordy) Im suprised you bought stuff from MSprank and did not ask him these questions. He is VERY busy because of the storm right now. If you want an up and headers ask him, nothing like GTSPEC combo. I have em on my car and they are going on his build too. Just lovely. Nicer than PERRIN. Infamous1 is the #1 LGT tuner. He has tuned over 500 LGT. Get a tune from infamousperformance; the same guy you are getting everything else from! And yes, you need a tune for a DP or a CAI so you can safely drive your car. Feel free to PM me and I will do my best to give you the quick un-noobing of LGT modding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoniram Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Hmmm I think I'll go with best information... Back in my NA days, getting another 2-4mpg (and maybe 5-10hp) was as simple as I.H.E. It couldn't be any easier. Bolt-on, drive away with more power and better fuel economy. I know that turbos are another matter completely, but I don't know how or why... (hence why I read threads here all day now) So your experience with the ebay headers was not positive? Or you just didn't think they were worth it? I guess I wasn't clear in my last post: I have NOT bought anything (yet). I sent M Sprank a PM asking him his thoughts about what to buy for Stage 2 stuff, maybe get a package deal, etc. I'll wait to hear from him before I make my decision. Having successfully tuned 500 LGT's make me feel safe though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Infamous1 (shamar) is the tuner. He is MSprank's partner. MSprank is the mechanical mastermind. If you want to go stage 2 to start you should... (First of all tires!) Catless UpPipe (any or MSpranks decatting service!) CNT Catted Downpipe (bang for buck!) Torque Solutions TMIC (oem TMIC is limited even at stage 2!!!) Infamous1 stage 2 tune VagCom Cable ($10!) www.infamousperformance.net MOST BANG FOR BUCK PERIOD. After that deal with the horrible undersway of the oem suspension by adding F&R swaybars and rear swaybar mounts. If you still want more look for a small turbo like BnR16g or vf39/43/48 run on stock fueling with a EL header and catback. If you want more than that, for a bunch more money... injectors, fuelpump and a bigger turbo than a 16g or vf39/43/48. Anything bigger will require fuel upgrades. Even the smaller upgrades will be fuel limited up top. Hope it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
450exc115 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I'm not a big fan of the current bread of header design being offered. They are longer often more prone to crack or stupid expensive. I'm a big fan of Grimmspeed and there porting work on stock manifolds, there crossover tube, and the design of there up pipe. I'm a fan of the belmouth DP and running one with a cat in them. I'm not a fan of the size of the cat on the CNT as it will add some restriction. My prodrive 300 cell unit on my WRX is a much better design, unfortunatly they don't make one for the LGT. LALGT is pretty right on the money with mods list. Probably the best set of manifolds you could go with would be a set of JDM twinscroll manifolds and plumbing. But you would also need a twin scroll turbo as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 There are very little gains with a GS PnP of a exhaust manifold. Better off getting a CHEAP header in that case and keeping the oem mani for when the header cracks. Just my 2c. Not worth getting UEL either. EL or meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biodtl Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 (First of all tires!) Catless UpPipe (any or MSpranks decatting service!) CNT Catted Downpipe (bang for buck!) Torque Solutions TMIC (oem TMIC is limited even at stage 2!!!) Infamous1 stage 2 tune VagCom Cable ($10!) www.infamousperformance.net MOST BANG FOR BUCK PERIOD. Really suggesting a $600 TMIC as most bang for buck upgrade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Absolutely. If you disagree, thats fine. Read more. Stage 2 is held back by the OEM TMIC. The OEM TMIC is a weak part. The TS is available new cheaper than any other TMIC, is MADE IN THE USA and will allow more boost (more power), more efficiently (cooler air = more power). If OP wanted something else there is a FMIC for sale for NIB second hand for $600ish too. Yeah, a decent intercooler cost a few dollars. Funny they keep their value used too. If you think JB welding your OEM TMIC or going with a EBAY piece is more bang for the buck, I welcome you to put that on your car and trust it. I thought this was about going stage 2 and making power not about skimping on spending money on the few things that will actually MAKE MORE POWER and make a difference. I know loads of people that toss an intake and exhaust on a NA for $600-800 that does way less than a TS TMIC will do for OP. If you want to talk about FREE hell, gut all the pipes, DL a tune from RomRaider and hope for the best - the power will NOT be there like it would be done right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biodtl Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Guess I will do a bit more research, but a TMIC upgrade is currently near the bottom of my list. It is something I would consider upgrading along with a new turbo, but not before. I'm not suggesting cheap parts by any means, I believe in paying for quality parts. A TMIC just seems like a costly upgrade for stage 2. You have peaked my interest though, so I will be reading into that upgrade a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 You want the best header you can get? GT Spec. A TMIC might be a "costly upgrade" but it's a reliability upgrade. You don't HAVE to get one, but I bet you'll be pissed if your OE one blows up when trying to get to work one day. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoniram Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 You know, if money grew on trees, none of this would be an issue Do the GTSpec EL headers hang down any lower than the stock system? The LAST thing I want to do is decrease my ground clearance. I fully intend to take this car through snow, on dirt roads, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
450exc115 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 There are very little gains with a GS PnP of a exhaust manifold. Better off getting a CHEAP header in that case and keeping the oem mani for when the header cracks. Just my 2c. Not worth getting UEL either. EL or meh. How do you measure gains? For the most part PNP results in HP sooner not more total.. A PNP can generally add to the turbo spooling up sooner, 200-300RPM.. My VF30 spools up at full boost at 3500 RPM. PNP later and it hits max boost around 3200 RPM.. Total peak HP was the same but peak torque was sooner. I agree the stock TMIC can't take the pressure (spoken in a Scottish acent) so aftermarket is the way to go if you want to run boost levels over 16ish PSI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoniram Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 LALGT, I'm pretty sure you had mentioned something about buying particular gaskets because of boost leak? Just looked through all my subscribed threads and couldnt find it... care to remind me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpmarky Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Grimspeed gaskets = the good stuff (rediculously thick) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoniram Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 Ok, and the torque specs are the same with those as with normal gaskets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpmarky Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 yep, don't have to (shouldn't) change torque specs for gaskets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 ^Yup. What Mark said. GS Gaskets, torque to spec. Stock them deep and sell them cheap (cheaper than OEM) at: http://www.infamousperformance.net/servlet/StoreFront When I say "there are little gains with a GS PnP manifold" it means that an ebay ELH is going to make a bigger difference than the PnP. Its great that you spool 300rpm faster than before, I love quick roll on boost - I have a GTSPEC ELH+UP combo that Bacs said was so flawless and its worth around 30hp up top on my setup. The GS PnP is NOT going to do that for you/me. As for a TMIC upgrade, I dont want anyone to waste money but... OEM TMIC is generally comsidered good for 16-17lbs of boost (and it helps if you JB weld it together). The more HOT air you push though a little intercooler, the less it cools the air. The temp of the intake charge drastically effects the power... A aftermarket TMIC will allow OP to turn the boost up to 18lbs+ with better efficiency. More power can be made from a TMIC THAN A CATBACK EXHAUST in this case!!! And there is nothing like waiting for your car to stop working after a pull because the plastic endtank of the oem TMIC blew out... (and yes, it is a fact that members claim to JB weld or not and run up to 19-20psi but I have seen TMIC blow tanks plenty as have many others) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeblow Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 About a month ago, I found myself looking at a 5psi boost leak after a pull. Checked and double checked the common casues (BPV hose, TMIC-Throttle body hose, etc). Turns out it was a cracked endtank. Best I can figure is that the hot air over cold plastic (ambient temp was around 10-15 degrees that night) caused it to crack. I was running 17 psi with the Cobb off-the-shelf stage 2 tune on my Accessport. So even the basic stage 2 can cause issues. I got one heck of a deal on a coated IPR TMIC and an infamous tune and it was totally worth it. Here's a couple pics for comparison http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad236/flat4LGT/Leggy/Intercooler003.jpg http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad236/flat4LGT/Leggy/Intercooler002.jpg It's cool; I'm with the band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoniram Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Wow, I'm really surprised to hear that the OEM TMIC has issues like this... I can understand with extra boost it might cause problems, but it seems the TMIC could be improved all around, even with stock pressure. (btw, what is the "stock" pressure, anyway?) When people JB Weld the OEM TMIC, are they simply applying it to the joint between the metal core and plastic ends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Wow, I'm really surprised to hear that the OEM TMIC has issues like this... I can understand with extra boost it might cause problems, but it seems the TMIC could be improved all around, even with stock pressure. Who said it has problems at stock pressure (he was running 17lbs of boost at stage 2)? The OEM tmic works perfectly at OEM power levels. How is it a mfr. problem that the oem TMIC was not built for more power? When people JB Weld the OEM TMIC, are they simply applying it to the joint between the metal core and plastic ends? Yes, you want to prevent the metal tabs from unbending/allowing the plastic endcaps to seperate from the metal core. There are a few threads you can find by searching. Some have decent pics too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luchin Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Well shit on a stick, I guess I'm getting a TMIC sooner then I thought. Might as well just keep filling my garage with parts and drive down to SoCal so Mike and Shamar can work their magic. Funny, I was just talking to my wife tonight about what I would buy myself for my birthday...now I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoniram Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 LALGT, I guess I'm just surprised at how close the TMIC was built to stock tolerances. In my experience, most OEM engines and components (from Japan) can handle significant change and higher levels of strain without much worry (within reason). 16psi doesn't seem like too much of a step up (since stock is 13.5psi) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeblow Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 In all fairness to the manufacturer, my issue was probably due as much to the huge temperature change as it was to the increased pressure. Like I said, ambient temp was around 10 degrees that night and the air coming out of the turbo is a lot hotter than that. But if you're going with a professional tune from someone like Shamar, you may as well upgrade the IC for $500 (the group buy on the IPRs is less than $500 shipped for an uncoated one) before getting your tune than waiting for the IC to go out and having to pay for a tune again after upgrading. It's cool; I'm with the band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoniram Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Sounds to me like I just need to stockpile everything I'm wanting to install on the car and wait to tune until I'm ready to put it ALL on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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