ClimberDHexMods Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I know very little about this topic. If you have a pretty good idea of the answer, please post! My current 5eat (talking about the transmission) with 32,000 miles is worn from Stage 2 since I had no modded valve body at the time. Now I Have a 20G starting to make decent power. The trans slips a bit then slams from 1st to second. It also chatters horribly in 3rd manual mode at WOT after 4500rpms, I suspect when the TCC (torque converter clutch) tries to lockup, but can't quite do it. Need to confirm or rule out the TCC. Could easily be the front brake (inside the trans). I have code P0751. I have a spare trans, which I bought blind on eBay for cheap. It was rollover trans that some ricer bought to "convert his RS to 5eat". It has a ruined center diff housing, ruined TC/front diff housing, and THIS particular issue: it sat outside in foggy South San Francisco for 2 or 3 years. TC was rusted, and went in the trash. Out of the trans pours a milky white/slightly red fluid. I assume this is what ATF looks like when exposed to moisture for a long time. I do not SEE any visible rust inside the main transmission case, or on the Spare trans' valve body. My thought is to put my good Center Diff and Good bellhousing, and Torque Concerter on this spare case with white stuff in it, and see if it is mechanically OK. I know it's easily a fail scenario, but it is cheap for me to test. I was planning on running a bunch of cheap ATF through it just to flush out all the garbage, and perhaps add any temporary additives if one makes particular sense. So the white fluid WILL be evacuated if I do this swap. Fears/Questions: 1) The spare trans is already ruined from having white fluid in it, and this is guaranteed to fail. The trans does spin freely, so is there any way to really know if this statement could be 100%? 2) The crap in the main trans case will flow into the good center diff and TC, and ruin one or both. Could this potentially happen, or does it not work like that? I suspect that since the main trans case is mostly air tight, except for fluctuations in barometric pressure, it might have survived internally? Please, is there a prayer of this jerry-rigged project actually succeeding? [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I think you're the best to judge it, based on having inspected the tranny first-hand. What does your gut feeling tell you? IMHO, I would do the swap. Yes, it sat out in the elements and took on moisture, but it shouldn't be sludge because it wasn't exposed to extreme temps. Do you feel daring enough to superficially take it apart and take a peek inside with a flashlight and try to assess what you see? Your tranny filter should do it's job and catch any crap that's in it. After driving it for a while and hopefully assessing everything is working, beat on it to heat it up and purge it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 Frankster said something along the lines of: save it for spare parts, but don't use it as is. I called the only local mechanic I know who said straight up that the gears and such might be fine, but that the clutches themselves would not, due to the water. He advised me to call the Subaru dealers to find out who they use for their rebuilds. For my TC, he suggested I find a rebuilt one, and do a core exchange deal. That sounds great, if I do in fact end up needing a new one. I need to de-pin that TCC wire on the TCU harness to see if I still get that driveline chatter in 3rd manual. If I do, I might instead opt for a built one, since a burned TCC is not very useful. Core exchange is plan B, depending on price... [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 ... is that thing completely waterlogged? I'd be wary of using it in that situation too. I guess I underestimated what foggy South San Francisco for 2 or 3 years means? Unfortunately merely picking it apart costs labor Have you considered using this as an opportunity to burn more money and buy an IPT rebuild kit? You'd take out the possibility of ruined clutchpacks AND end up with a beffier tranny in the end. Your other option would be to re-use your clutches which I don't know how much of a good idea that is, or use the clutches in the tranny now which we've already established is potentially a VERY bad idea. I doubt an OEM-like rebuild kit would be much cheaper, IF available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 I have NO experience with how to do it, but would actually consider practicing on my spare, since I have nothing to lose... but I'll see about finding a trans guy who can help me out on the weekend for beer/cash. The only real advantage I see to IPT "build" inside the main case is the valve body, which can be tuned with MegaShift. They would also cryo treat everything, but I don't see a real need for that. They could do the TC, but they will just ignore my request to NOT increase the stall, and will do whatever they want. There are places who WILL listen and not argue back. Just some food for thought. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users seabass07 Posted January 12, 2011 Mega Users Share Posted January 12, 2011 That is impossible to answer without opening it up. But if it were me, I'd tear it apart and have a look. Using it as is is just a bad idea without knowing how things are internally. At least use it as practice for repairing your current working transmission and maybe salvage what you can from it. What about transgo? Didn't they supposedly release the kit for the 5eat? Do they (or IPT) sell an upgraded TCC? I'd be more concerned about that clutch than any other part of the torque converter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 That is impossible to answer without opening it up. But if it were me, I'd tear it apart and have a look. Using it as is is just a bad idea without knowing how things are internally. At least use it as practice for repairing your current working transmission and maybe salvage what you can from it. What about transgo? Didn't they supposedly release the kit for the 5eat? Do they (or IPT) sell an upgraded TCC? I'd be more concerned about that clutch than any other part of the torque converter. Your concept of transgo might be a bit off. As far as the 5eat is concerned, they sell a kit and instructions for versions of the Jatco 5eat. They are not a trans shop, though they probably have one internally for R&D. No one ever said anything about getting their trans build by them, because they are not in that business. LieutenantColumbo had his 5eat built by a trans shop on the East Coast (not IPT), and they used a Nissan 350Z transgo kit, and made a couple small changes to the 350Z valve body mod process to make it work on the Subaru 5eat, which is mostly the same. This aforementioned trans shop will take a TC and "put in heavy duty torque converter clutches, and also tack weld / braze each one of the turbine fins in order to raise the amount of power it can handle. They could also increase the stall, but I would NOT want them to increase the stall on mine. 3500rpms is plenty of stall for my needs/wants. IPT will do the same basic kind of thing, but in their irritating New Jersey 'I am obviously better than you' way. Basically, they take a plasma cutter and open up the converter. They can strengthen the actual fins, increase the stall speed, put in new clutches, etc. I don't know what IPT does exactly as far as the details. I have called them repeatedly to talk about different parts of the build, and all I get are generalities that do not inspire confidence. This is my one and only reason for not wanting to use them. Things like "Well you NEED the build." -Why? Because you just do. How does the "built" torque converter improve your trap speeds? "Well it just um... it... you know..." This should be on the tip of any drag racer's tongue, and definitely a basic fact for trans builders. I feel the pressure from them to stop asking questions and just pay them. Well, they have a brilliant viral marketing foundation feeding customers who would rather pay $5000 and just have it done, than actually know exactly what's being done, how, and what's a fair price elsewhere. There are probably 50 shops in the DFW metroplex that have the means to build me a trans like what IPT will do, but for $2500. But it is a nightmare to find them, because unlike IPT, no one has a website, no one goes on forums, no one solicits race business since we are just 0.1% of those shopping for a rebuild. Two people have already referred me to Aamco or Eagle, since they offer a warranty, and might extend it to me (if they don't notice the 1 or 2 or 20 mods). Lastly, just talked with two guys who very confidently recommended I do NOT open up my spare trans. They started listing the tools, techniques, loose parts, and things like springs to watch out for, with everything already balanced and needing to be kept in that orientation. It takes years to learn properly. So the answer is NO for me doing the rebuild myself. I've already pulled off every sensor and spare part I can from my spare 5eat. I guess I'll just keep the main case as a backup in case I break a gear or something internally. But that probably isn't going to happen. A couple other notes: Most any shop that can build a torque converter can build a Subaru 5eat torque converter. I already have a modified VB by IPT. One condition of LieutenantColumbo's shop doing a race build is they start with a stock valve body, not one modified by IPT. That does add a level of complication to the process, but I can deal with it if I choose them. $4000 is still a lot of cash though. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users seabass07 Posted January 12, 2011 Mega Users Share Posted January 12, 2011 I was referring to the kit. I was wondering if the upgraded TCC came with the kit. Supposedly they were releasing a subaru 5eat kit at the beginning of the month. I figured since you have an unusable transmission, that you might be willing to tear into it and see how feasible a DIY upgrade would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Y'know, I got to digging and it seems there ARE issues with the IPT rebuilds. I think I'm just going to buy the rebuild kit from them IF I can't find an alternative, and have a local shop do it. I can only imagine what a pain in the ass would be IF I ran into issues with a full build, living in Lincoln and them being all the way in NJ ... http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1418958 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 Eh biggest issue to swapping these things, at least for me, is the ring and pinion in the front diff, which need to be a matched set. If I get a front LSD installed, then I would need to transfer that pinion to every future trans case, or swap out the darn front diff ring gear. Either way it's a huge pain in the behind. Front diff requires a special tool to unscew the bearing holder thing that holds the axle seal. And it needs to be aligned/shimmed/things I have never done... [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 I asked John at IPT a LOT of questions about the ring/pinion assembly, setting and shimming it properly, etc. He offered to include the price of my LSD install if I had the full trans rebuild done with IPT. He would also credit me the cost of my initial VB modification service. They do not charge for shipping to/from their shop, AND they offer a 1-year warranty on the product, which is one year I have to pound the piss out of it. I would not have a pound piss experience with any other build, and quite frankly that is a VERY strong incentive. Unlike previous calls, John did a very thorough job explaining everything to me. He is under no responsibility to do so, but then in the real world if you want the business, you have to tolerate the customer annoyingly picking your brain. At least is the case for high price / specialized service offerings. IPT is back on my radar... Fishbone, one thing to consider about that thread where people had problems with their IPT 4eat builds, is that the TCU is NOT optimized. IPT modifies the VB to get the hydraulic system to operate 'good enough'. But it's an uphill battle because their customers are doing mechanical things (adding power) that specifically increase stress on the trans components where/when it should not. Like for an ECU, where it hasn't been hacked, you slap on a bigger turbo and MBC and hope the tune commands the engine to operate 'good enough' that it won't blow, same goes for a trans. I sincerely hope that with MegaShift, we can properly control these things so they perform and still endure, like modern EJ engines are these days (if you don't push the timing to the limit, anyways). [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 John did a very thorough job explaining everything to me. Interesting. Did he spill beans on anything we don't already know? I think what happens is, many people call, but very very few get a job done. I can see how that gets annoying after a while. The threads I referenced are not so much about "these people had issues", but the fact that I am about just about a 23 hour drive away from them If I were to find myself in their boat, the tranny would end up costing much more than 5 grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Nothing new. He advised against me sending the front diff housing away for front diff install, citing the front pinion needing to be aligned with the ring gear all at once. He does have a point... [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.