iyalla Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 You actually want slightly higher pressure in the winter. This prevents the tire from "flattening out," and having a larger contact patch. The idea is a tire with higher inflation will be narrower and cut through the snow better. Thanks...total brain f*rt there by me Thats why you're in Maine and i'm in NY lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS5689 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thanks...total brain f*rt there by me Thats why you're in Maine and i'm in NY lol It's okay, we all have them. I didn't even learn that until I moved up to Maine anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Wow! I went off line for the rest of the day and now that I am back I see you guys have figured it out for me. First off I have lived in Maine all my life and have run all season radial every winter. On my cars, on my pick-up and even on my plow truck. I have never had an accident. I guess it comes down to knowing how to drive. The only people I know that run snow tires are the people that moved to Maine and are scared and if you are scared to drive on snow that is when you have accidents. I have a class "A" License and for about thirty years now I've been hauling wood out of the Maine woods. It could be the tires. My problem is that I trust people to much and I allowed my tire guy to put tires on my car without looking at them. They look like a very agresive tire. But not all season. My problem is ABS. It seems that if a tire locks up the sensor should release that wheel and tranffer the breaking power to the other wheels. Even with summer tires. I do appreciate everyones input. I guess I need to get a set of real all season radials. I will look at them first this time. Thanks again. We still didn't get any information about if the ABS really is working or not. Is there any feedback in the pedal or not? Another issue is that not all all-season tires are alike. And are the tires on the car really all-season tires? We haven't really seen any useful feedback so the speculation escalates here. Personally I really prefer to run two sets of tires - winter and summer set. And as I noted before - it can be a problem ranging all the way from wrong tires to a badly bled brake system on one of the circuits. And are the tires identical left/right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 What tires are you running dkellis? An aggressive looking tread doesn't really mean much in winter. I had a set of BFG Traction T/As on mine (aggressive looking tread) and they sucked. I still think you are confusing the sensation of "wheels locking up" with "poor tires causing ABS to keep letting go of the wheels and making the car take a long time to stop". Take a little video clip of what the tires are doing when you are braking and that will make it easier to see what is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Power6 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 My problem is ABS. It seems that if a tire locks up the sensor should release that wheel and tranffer the breaking power to the other wheels. Even with summer tires. I do appreciate everyones input. I guess I need to get a set of real all season radials. I will look at them first this time. Thanks again. Well what is the difference between a tire sliding or being released by the ABS? From the drivers seat there is no difference at all. Other than feeling and hearing the ABS solenoids doing their thing, the sensation is the same. ABS can't change physics, the maximum traction of a tire on any surface is what it is, the ABS just helps make the best of it and keep the car pointed straight. Even with ABS, summer tires will suck in the winter. It seems that when one is standing on the brake pedal and the car is not stopping as quick as your brain is used to for the force you are putting into the pedal, the assumption is that the ABS is not working right. The ABS is probably working just fine. Surprised you run all seasons, I thought you Mainers were well seasoned. I run winter tires down here in Boston, and I'm not the only one. They stop great in the snow, and I run performance winter tires, the full on winter tires are even better. You'd be amazed if you have been driving all-seasons all your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shutterbc Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I feel like we're beating the all season vs. snow tire discussion (even if I do agree) to death. Besides, ABS would certainly kick in faster with inappropriate tires. I guess I'm not going to say anything that hasn't already been said... but I think the community here is trying to help. Dkellis, you sound a little frustrated. On my Subarus I have actually felt that ABS kicks in a little too easily; it sounds like something is legitimately wrong with the braking system as you have described it so far. So back to the information gathering questions that have been asked, but I don't think we got an answer yet: - What model of tires do you have? - Do you feel vibration in the pedal / noise when jamming the brake, or is the brake locking silently? - Are you able to take a video of the symptom? - Do you stop much more quickly if you pull the handbrake? If the dealership says everything is normal, at least you can demonstrate to them that something is wrong by presenting the video or a test procedure for them to perform. Best of luck figuring it out! (I love driving Jeeps too though, not a bad choice either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS5689 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I thought you Mainers were well seasoned. I run winter tires down here in Boston, and I'm not the only one. They stop great in the snow, and I run performance winter tires, the full on winter tires are even better. You'd be amazed if you have been driving all-seasons all your life. Many of them are. This guy's claim that "people who run all season are scared out of staters" is completely ridiculous. I know many, many, many native Mainers who run winter tires. The only people I know that run snow tires are the people that moved to Maine and are scared and if you are scared to drive on snow that is when you have accidents. I have a class "A" License and for about thirty years now I've been hauling wood out of the Maine woods. It could be the tires. My problem is that I trust people to much and I allowed my tire guy to put tires on my car without looking at them. They look like a very agresive tire. But not all season. My problem is ABS. It seems that if a tire locks up the sensor should release that wheel and tranffer the breaking power to the other wheels. Even with summer tires. I do appreciate everyones input. I guess I need to get a set of real all season radials. I will look at them first this time. Thanks again. I don't care what kind of license you have, snow tires beat all-seasons hands down any day. There is a reason there are places that mandate snow tires in the winter. You should look at a side-by-side of hard performance numbers of all season tires vs. snow tires. I will never run a pair of all seasons again, no matter where I live. Plus all seasons suck in the summer time anyway. I also have tons of native Mainer friends who all use snow tires. In fact, almost all of my friends from Maine use them. Did I mention I see Subarus in southern New York running snow tires all the time? I guess we're all terrible, incompetent drivers because we want snow safety and performance. You seem to be convinced you know what the problem with your vehicle is, so good luck! As has been said by several other people, take a video and provide us with your tire information... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 B.t.w. - A Class A license here means that you may ride a motorcycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS5689 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 B.t.w. - A Class A license here means that you may ride a motorcycle. In Maine it's the top commercial license. I just asked my roommate from Maine, who has a motorcycle license, what theirs is. They get an endorsement with the letter "I." In New York we get a class "M" license for motorcycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinlsb Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I feel like we're beating the all season vs. snow tire discussion (even if I do agree) to death. Besides, ABS would certainly kick in faster with inappropriate tires.I guess I'm not going to say anything that hasn't already been said... but I think the community here is trying to help. Dkellis, you sound a little frustrated. On my Subarus I have actually felt that ABS kicks in a little too easily; it sounds like something is legitimately wrong with the braking system as you have described it so far. So back to the information gathering questions that have been asked, but I don't think we got an answer yet: - What model of tires do you have? - Do you feel vibration in the pedal / noise when jamming the brake, or is the brake locking silently? - Are you able to take a video of the symptom? - Do you stop much more quickly if you pull the handbrake? If the dealership says everything is normal, at least you can demonstrate to them that something is wrong by presenting the video or a test procedure for them to perform. Best of luck figuring it out! (I love driving Jeeps too though, not a bad choice either Something to remember is that with a four channel system, that once a tire is "locked", the caliper WILL NOT re-apply the brake until the sensor detects the wheel is rotating. The time between detected lock, and how long it is allowed to lock is determined by firmware. Once the caliper pressure is released, the system will wait for the wheel to rotate. "Belief does not make truth. Evidence makes truth. And belief does not make evidence." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnout8488 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I'm just afraid the OP is going to go back to driving a Chrysler product even though his Subaru is fine :-( Such a downgrade. /biased but with reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruggerheist Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 ^same reason i suggested tires before a trade in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shutterbc Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Something to remember is that with a four channel system, that once a tire is "locked", the caliper WILL NOT re-apply the brake until the sensor detects the wheel is rotating. Ah, thanks for reminding me. I guess I wasn't taking into consideration conditions where the tire slips so much it won't even rotate. I was also thinking about how new the tires were; if they have less than a hundred miles or so the mold lubricant might still be on the tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkellis Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 I understand how that the caliper will not reaply until the sensor detects rotation of that wheel again but while that one is not turning shouldn't it be applying breaking power to the other three wheels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 It should - but the question still is if the ABS is working or not. Do you feel the ABS pulsing in the brake pedal or is it completely still, and how hard are you pressing on the pedal? ABS is intended to work best when you press very hard. If you stop the pressure when it starts to work on one wheel the other wheels won't get full brake power and continue to rotate. As for the tire that locks up - is that identical to the other tires or is it maybe another tire with different spec? There are too many questions here that you haven't answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinlsb Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 It should - but the question still is if the ABS is working or not. Do you feel the ABS pulsing in the brake pedal or is it completely still, and how hard are you pressing on the pedal? ABS is intended to work best when you press very hard. If you stop the pressure when it starts to work on one wheel the other wheels won't get full brake power and continue to rotate. As for the tire that locks up - is that identical to the other tires or is it maybe another tire with different spec? There are too many questions here that you haven't answered. Easy test. Go out and try a panic stop. If the pedal pulsates and the car stops straight, the ABS works. Now, I don't like Subie ABS, but to use it you must hold down the brake with a lot of force. Letting up on the brake, defeats ABS, which is why a lot of newer cars have brake assist. In fact, it would be good for the OP to experience ABS in action "Belief does not make truth. Evidence makes truth. And belief does not make evidence." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Thanks to all of you. I think if I'm having this problem already, something they really can't figure out, its time to trade. And possibly back to a grand cherikee. Thanks again, dkellis of Maine I have an LGT and a Grand Cherokee (2008). Cannot compare these vehicles, the Jeep is so much better in every aspect in bad weather. I notice on my Legacy if I'm going less than say 10 mph and all the wheels lock, they stay locked. There is a cut off point where the system disengages. The Jeep seems much less prone to this condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronconia Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Quick question after reading through this thread...is the ABS light supposed to come on when the system is engaged? I'm not talking on startup, but when you're braking and it kicks in? My ABS light hasn't ever come on in those situations, and actually, neither has my AWD light. Are they working improperly? Or is that normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 No, the ABS light will only come on to indicate a fault with the system. It won't light up when the ABS is operating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronconia Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 COOL thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 You actually want slightly higher pressure in the winter. This prevents the tire from "flattening out," and having a larger contact patch. The idea is a tire with higher inflation will be narrower and cut through the snow better.I disagree. While it's true that narrower is better to cut through the snow, when you're talking about letting air out, the purpose isn't to alter the contact patch size. It's to alter the contact patch shape, if that makes sense. You have to let out a significant amount of air and because the tire/rubber is now softer, it enables you to get out if you're stuck because it allows your tread to flex and dig into the snow for traction. And depending on the conditions, a flatter and softer contact patch actually could be better if the intention is for you to climb over and on top of the snow. So really, it depends on a lot of things I guess. I would say that if you're stuck and trying to get out, less air is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shutterbc Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 ^ I'm sure this is proven elsewhere, but I also confirmed for myself. I played around with tire pressures on a snowy / icy skid pad yesterday. I was able to control from a slide noticeably better with lower tire pressures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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